Originally posted by jibeho

Private for-profit clinics are permitted in some provinces and not allowed in others. Under the Canada Health Act, privately run facilities cannot charge citizens for services covered by government insurance. But a 2005 Supreme Court ruling in Quebec opened the door for patients facing unreasonable wait times to pay-out-of-pocket for private treatment.

Just wanted to say that im astounded by the sentence i bolded. In Portugal we have a National Health Service, but no private for-profit clinic, given that they follow the general health rules, is prevented from doing anything. They are free to make business as they want.

Dont let the Canada "type" of government provided health care judge ALL government health care systems.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Picao84]

Fox news is has the credibility of a grocery store rag.

First off, to show what little they know, what district are they referring to? Because Canada doesn't have "national" healthcare. it goes by province. So what province are they talking about?

They are not, because it is fox spreading fear mongering as usual.

Guess what, the provinces are all different, some are better then others. I have talked to people all over the world, and no one would take our health care system for anything.


In fact a friend in Norway says things are going downhill since now for profit practise has been allowed, and the elite can get in and sneak the best care since they can afford it. Sound familiar?


We shouldnt' have to run to Canada and Mexico to get prescriptions. Or go to India to get surgery.

I have waited 4 months for surgery, because of my overbooked dr. I have waited weeks to see my pcp. I have waited 7 hours in er.

I don't want to hear about wait times, because it is not better here, and we pay a fortune for it.

since Canada has gone to their system, their lifespans have increased. Their seniors lifespans are steadily increasing. There is a lower infant mortality rate and mother natal mortality rate. Doctors report to be 30% happier then US doctors. And Canada had the same rates as us before changing their systems.


The US now ranks 37th in health care, and we pay more per person then anyone else. 1 out of 4 doctors wich they never became a doctor, one in four pcp wish they chose a specialty because the hours are grueling and the insurance companies want them to see a patient every 15 minutes! the average pcp works 70 hours a week, and only gets paid 125k a year after wracking up 125-150 in student loans. Soon there is going to be a pcp crisis for this reason.
The number one reason people become doctors? Patient relationships. More then comradship and esteem. So when we have the health insurance companies making them run to a new patient every 15 minutes, how happy do you think your doctor is?


Fox news touts this all the time, trying to convince us that there are long wait times. There are long wait times in the US. And becasue of malpractise suits, there are now pregnant women who have to drive 4 counties over to find a gyn. Because drs. can't afford the student loans and insurance.

I have ten bucks that fox is sponsored by insurance companies. and those companies are behind the camera going: tell them they have long wait times.....

What it comes down too is people want choice. If that means they have to pay more for it then that is what they are going to do.

Wait times are not a myth in any of the countries with a single payer system. The truth of the matter is you an can find people that support any kind of health care system.

The problem is that going to any kind of government run or sponsored health care system isn't going to fix the problems, they will just be more pronounced. No matter what anybody wants to make people believe the government is not immune to market forces. They can spin and manipulate the numbers all they want, but it is nothing but a lie.

People want choice in their health care. People want to make lots of money and the freedom to do just about anything they want within reason. That includes doctors. People don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to school just to help people, that is partly the reason why they become doctors and the other reason is to make money.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Wel my husband is a pediatrician who runs his own office and through his contract with the NB Medical Association, he's also required to work at the hospital for x number of hours per month as well.

People enjoy saying that we give substandard care and there are long wait times for specialists and other things. However, the care we provide is far better than people would like to think.

With my son's medical condition, his healthcare costs would be astronomical if I didn't live a country which the government had this type of plan. Estimated US cost for his medications and treatments would be around 50 to 60 thousand a year.

Now we aren't poor, we both make a decent living and have provided generously for our children, and we are happy for that. But if it wasn't for our healthcare system, we'd be a very deep hole.

I mean just look at minor surgeries or broken bones for an example. In Canada, having these things treated does not cost you a cent, and there are virtually no wait times when you have a serious injury or condition which requires immediate treatment.

I don't know about you folks, but the day I have to start PAYING for healthcare out of my pocket instead of in my taxes, I will be moving to New Zealand or France.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I mean just look at minor surgeries or broken bones for an example. In Canada, having these things treated does not cost you a cent, and there are virtually no wait times when you have a serious injury or condition which requires immediate treatment.

This is true. I had chest pains at work last month and was admitted immediately. No heart attack. It took less than 2 weeks for a stress test. The ticker is fine.

As to the little things, I haven't spent more than an hour in a walk in clinic. Those doctors are on the provincial payroll. No cost to me.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
What it comes down too is people want choice. If that means they have to pay more for it then that is what they are going to do.
[edit on 1-7-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Excuse me, but you have a source for that? Specifically for health.
And a national healthcare system doesnt mean people dont have chance.. A National Healthcare System is compatible with a market driven-one.. Hell, you do have more chance with both dont you?

And im sick of the Public Choice Theory (Im taking Mst on Political Science so i have to know it).. It has some good points.. But it is too fundamentalist for my taste..

Originally posted by jibeho
Just out of curiosity, if it works so well, why did the Supreme Court open the door to private care back in 2005 for patients subject to unreasonable wait times?

My guess would be for large cities where immigrants flood emergency rooms for basic problems they could fix themselves.

I'm not trying to criticize, I just want to understand your viewpoint. I have friends in Hallifax and they are not always pleased with the program. My friend had to wait for 2 1/2 hours in clinic with a 3 inch gash in his head due to a head injury. Lucky for him, there was no concussion.

Halifax is my home town. I haven't lived there for 12 years though. I had no problem then. Things may have changed. I don't know.