Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time

There was no "warrentless search". You are either miss-reading or miss-representing the article. Maybe you should read it again.

They were not "armed with search warrants" because they had no reason yet to request one.

Nor did they enter or search the house.

They were simply following a good lead...as the article clearly states.

No "warrantless search" just good police work. These guys have a very difficult and dangerous job. God bless them.

I think you miss the point as to what 'freedom' and 'liberty' truly mean. Your logic should also mean that it is OK to tap everyone's phone, read everyone's mail, search everyone's home, pull over every driver, read everyone's diary, audit everyone's personal finances, etc. I mean, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about... right?

WRONG!

Our Constitution is supposed to protect us from things... allowing us our personal freedoms and privacy. This country was founded on INNOCENT until proven guilty.

Take this all one step further... what was once legal can very easily become illegal. There was a time in this country where it was legal to make and sell alchohol. The laws changed, then those very same people became criminals overnight if they continued doing what they had done the day before. Same for not wearing your seatbelt or helmet. Same for smoking in a bar. Same for buying an AK47 after the Clinton gun ban. I could go on and on here.

It's very easy to claim that you are a law abiding citizen while they criminalize something that you don't do or enjoy. It's much harder once they criminalize something that you do do or enjoy.

Don't ever make the argument that "if you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about." Sooner or later, that attitude will bite you or someone you know and love right in the rear, and hard.

Trust me, if it was happening to many gun owners, this would get picked up by mainstream news. Why? Because it'd get huge ratings: "Government violates the constitution by removing weapons from citizens!"

You're telling me Mr. Beck wouldn't be on a rampage about that?

We need more sources. Until then, this isn't the most authentic story.

Quik, get everybody into the fallout shelter! The time has come. Soon our god will take us. This is the sign we have been waiting for. I will tell you when to come out. Satan is after your guns!

Correct. Mr Bush stated publicly that he would sign any "assault weapon" ban congress cared to extend.

That's right, boys and girls, Mr. Bush is one of "THEM", right up there with Obama, Emmanuel, and Holder.

Is everyone simply ignoring my post?

Yes - they didn't have search warrants...nor did they enter the house and search it.

There was NO "Warrantless search!" I don't mean to rain on anyone's "they are comming for my guns" and "there goes our constitution" parade, but read the article posted in the OP for goodness sake.

Wait until Satan comes after something that you do care about.

It's this attitude that allows the Constitution to be consistantly eroded and undermined.

[edit on 7/1/09 by larphillips]

Until this story expands, as written, yes it seems you are correct. Still, it's a very slippery slope and appears as a pre-emptive strike that throws "innocent until proven guilty" into question.

Yeah, well, there's the problem. Guess who get to decide what's "wrong"?

So far they've decided that such things as:

1) Flying a Gadsen flag
2) Supporting the Constitution
3) Being a Veteran
4) Voting for Ron Paul, or any other "unapproved" candidate
5) Being vocal about opposition to abortion
6) Believing that America is a sovereign Nation
7) Thinking there may be such a thing as a "NWO"
8) Opposing the government of the day
9) Thinking that human induced global warming is an unproven "theory"
10) Having bumper stickers on your car that are critical of TPTB

among several dozen other things, are all WRONG.

As I learned in my police training, EVERYONE does SOMETHING wrong, every day. No one is 100% all the time, not even preachers.

I don't think I'll trust 'em quite as far as you, if that's ok.

What the hell is the country becoming? so what if someone put guns and ammo as a higher priorety than new cloths, hell a couple pairs of jeans and a few t-shirts and some good combat boots go a long damn way. All this BS is is them going after gun owner in fear that they may pose a threat to the chosen one and there agenda. Best advice i can give is pay cash for all your guns and ammo, dont buy from the same store twice in a day, buy from private collections and start hiding your weapons.

reply to post by larphillips

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Listen to yourself.

guns kill people.

guns function is to kill people.

no need for them at all.

they should be banned and destroyed and the factories destroyed.

no more guns.

no need for guns.

OK, when you make a universal ban, wave a magic wand, and make every gun on the planet disappear, then perhaps your point would be valid. Until that time happens, tell me how you intend to protect yourself, your property, and your loved ones when the time comes that the only people around who have guns are criminals? Look at Mexico as a prime example of this. Guns are illegal to own in Mexico, so the drug cartels do essentially what they want... the populace is helpless.

What happens when law enforcement and/or the military decide that they'd rather run things and oppress you? Who would you turn to? Who would stand to defend you? The very threat of a well-armed populace ensures that the forces of tyrrany be held at bay. It is a necessary balance. It is mutually assured destruction.

Oh, and a gun's only function is not to kill people. They are also used for sport, for hunting, for collecting, for history, and for investment. To boil a gun down to one single outcome also means that, by your logic, the same could be said for diet soda, fast food, cigarettes, automobiles, aircraft, risky sex, extreme sports, etc... all of which kill more people worldwide (well, aside from probably aircraft) than gun violence.

Would love to visit the planet where you live. I would love to have a society where guns aren't known.

Unfortunately, this is earth.

reply to post by esecallum

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Ah yes, the old guns kill people lets get rid of them argument.

So if some guy gets a gun on the black market and comes into my house where I don't have a gun and he wants to rape my wife, wouldn't a gun have come in handy in a situation like that?

Most people (such as myself) do not use their guns to kill people. They use them for hunting, self defense, and to pop a few rounds off at a target for recreation. Can you hear yourself? Most gangs in the united states do not purchase guns legally. If someone can have a gun to attack, someone else needs a gun to defend, plain and simple. Remember the response time of most police stations suck ace. A bullet goes a few thousand feet per second, a cop goes 55 - 80 mph and is further away.......
See a problem here?

Another thing. If my government decides to take away all my rights and essentially make me a slave, how am I supposed to do anything about it? The American people have to be able to defend themselves against their government, or anything goes... No quartering of troops? Ha that will be long gone. Freedom of religion and speech? Dream on! Whats a fair and speedy trial? Miranda rights? PFFT. It's amazing what a little black powder and lead will keep people from doing.

I personally do not want to end up like the UK with a camera on every street corner, easily able to peer inside peoples homes. No rights to privacy? No rights to be an individual? Sure people use guns for bad bad things, but people like me should not have to give up my security for those people.



[edit on 1-7-2009 by DaMod]

Actually in the state of Wyoming, you can purchase just about any gun you want. There is a pawn shop here in town with a really nice military issue 50 cal sniper rifle for sale. Among the other items for sale include an m16, M4A1, SKS, AK47, AR15 and several hunting rifles, semi automatic handguns, revolvers and shotguns. All legal (as long as assault rifles are semi auto)

There is also no conceal and carry law in Wyoming, nor is there a waiting period unless something questionable comes up on your background check, which results in you getting the gun anyway after about 7-10 days.

Wyoming has pure gun freedom. You know what our violent crime rate is? Next to nothing.

I mean would you break into a house or mug someone that very well may have a 10 million times better gun than you?

It's easy for someone to break into someones house and feel safe because you have a gun, and it's another to break into someones house and find out they have an assault rifle under their bed. Good deterrent right there.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by DaMod]

[edit on 1-7-2009 by DaMod]

reply to post by Styki

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Exactly. It's long overdue for them to crack down, they should have begun doing this long ago. People get arrested pretty regularly committing crimes with weapons they have bought illegally that were used in previous crimes. I guarantee you that you can walk into a bar or social club in any bad part of town and buy an unregistered weapon.

The bottom line dont register all guns keep a stash , make it water proof and bury it , keep others in walls , and for God sake keep ammo for ten -20 years , and you will be able to trade them at any time they are worth way more than food and money in a disaster or a tragedy of a natural or human-made hazard (a hazard is a situation which poses a level of threat to life, health, property, Dont give them up or you will end up on the wrong end of one.

reply to post by CleverNameHere

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I would love to see what you would do about it.

I'm not saying you wouldn't do anything, but we hear things like that from every single gun owner at one time or another. Unfortunately, It makes me think to myself that not much could or would really be done at all by the ones who say that. Probably because not much has been done about any other freedoms that have been stripped away from us. Hopefully I'm wrong.

i don't know about this one...

sounds like maybe the atf has a valid reason here.

as a strong proponent of gun rights, i don't say that lightly.

i have to ask the question...

what did they do to the gun dealers and what are their views on the matter? i mean, the dealer's opinions on this matter, given the situation would mean a great deal. obviously they too would be 2nd amendment proponents.

here it is...

ATF and Firearms Industry Join Forces to Stop Illegal Purchasing of Firearms in Houston