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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 11:42 AM by apacheman
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The people elected the Leftist politicians who allowed it to happen. Corporations dont write immigration law.
And now the sun comes up today and california has no money. So what happens.
What world do you live in? Of course they write the damn laws...what do you think they pay lobbyists to do? We have more right-wing politicians than
left-wing ones elected here, have for years. The Democrats here have been drifting right for decades: what passes for a left-winger is anyone
centrist. Corporations lobby for tax breaks and welfare: the biggest welfare queens in California are corporate interests. You guys are confusing now
with the California of Pat Brown.
What happens now is that teachers, lifeguards, firefighters, doctors, and nurses will be laid off. Payrates will be lowered for various categories of
workers (so much for the sanctity of contracts). Unemployment insurance (bought and paid for, thank you very much) will cease. Prisoners will be
released to make room for more prisoners, resulting in a slight drop in prison population, and a jump in unemployment. The state economy will contract
about 3x the amount "saved", further reducing tax revenues, steepening the spiral. More small businesses will colllapse, while their surviving
customers, those who still have money, will boost the coffers of Wla-Mart, which will make people say "See, things are getting better". Meanwhile
more children will go hungry, more families will be homeless. Health will deteriorate as people can no longer afford medicines or visits. More people
will be milling about nothing to do. Everyone currently living on the edge will begin to fall off.
Then on July sixth, the hospitals will begin to feel the impact of the 4th of July, after masses of people get together to celebrate and try to forget
their problems for awhile. The swine flu will explode all over the US, just like it did in Mexico after the Easter celebrations, only with more
lethality. By the 12th they'll probably be overwhelmed with cases, and a lot of people who didn't have to will die for lack of medications, care,
and equipment.
Meanwhile, back in the economy, nothing much will be obvious until August 1st when rent is due and there's still no money: kandlords will begin to
lose their investment rentals, driving prices down still further. Malls will close. Full-blown depression is around the corner.
Repeat in Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc.
But until the cops start beating on people, the protests will be peaceful: we're really a rather non-violent bunch. But all it will take is a spark,
and the riots will start. Where it goes from there, who knows? Depends upon how sick people are, and what the state does.
All because the greedy won't accept the necessary tax hikes and stop hiring illegals and foreigners everywhere you look. Check out how many H1A and
H2B foriegners work in Silicon Valley and throughout the economy.
[edit on 1-7-2009 by apacheman]
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 11:43 AM by thisguyrighthere
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reply to post by zooplancton
Things wont shut down unless they serve no purpose to begin with. Whatever money the state funnels into local services like the police, library and
such would stop coming in. Every town will have to adjust accordingly. Maybe this means some rinky dink suburb loses its armored SWAT vehicle? Maybe
the library will have cut down on those fancy hundred-thousand dollar electronic databases nobody uses?
I guarantee you there are towns in CA who have managed themselves wisely and for them nothing at all will change. There are other towns, cities
mostly, who have squandered all they have/had in a manner similar to what I described as being the "problem" a couple of posts up and they will
suffer more harshly no doubt trying to siphon off of or dump some of their problems onto the towns who managed themselves wisely.
The most important lesson anyone or any entity can get out of this whole mess is to exist within your means and prepare to lose everything so that
should you lose everything you can go on living while the rest of the idiots around you flail their arms in futility. And never, ever, ever, for any
reason ever, accept funds from some outside source to support projects or programs you cannot afford on your own. That's like taking out a loan you
cant afford to pay back.
Also, be prepared to defend yourself against the neighbors, towns, states who have lost everything and werent prepared for it. Those S.O.B.'s will be
coming for anyone with anything and they'll have nothing to lose.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 12:11 PM by Deianera
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True, true, true; unfortunately so.
I spent half of my life in California; I left some time ago for Ohio because I was afraid that if I didn't my life was going to be cut short.
I lived in the San Francisco area. It is as expensive as New York or D.C. but the wages are no higher than the Midwest- generally $6 - 8.00 an hour.
Yes, there are jobs that pay more- nice work if you can get it! I got tired of working 2 or 3 jobs just to pay rent & put food on the table. It gets
old very fast.
The one bedroom apartment I have now at $450.00 a month would be about $1200.00 a month in San Francisco- you get the idea. My jobs back then when I
was still there? I was a dress designer. The firms I worked for paid $10.00 an hour at most; then nothing- all of the jobs in the garment industry
began being outsourced to be done overseas in China & Central America by folks that are little more than slaves.
I'm glad I left when I did. Since I left in '94, the state has had one disaster after another- Enron, earthquakes, & now the place is in its 6th
year of drought. Also worth mentioning are the drug dealers, the gangs, the horrible brush fires, & the rising air pollution in the state. Nasty.
As for Cal being a nanny state, I never saw evidence of that. The government began phasing out a lot of public aid in '91; Pres. Clinton's cap on
welfare did the rest. If people go there to get such benefits, they're going there to die. To paraphrase Woody Guthrie: You won't get nowhere in
California if you don't have the dough-re-mi. The many thousands of homeless there are dying in the streets every day.
What goes around, comes around- when working people who pay taxes can't afford to live on what they make, they have to go elsewhere. I left. A
quarter million more people move out than move into that state every year. It's been losing population for the above reasons for at least 20 years.
How does such an expensive state to live in survive without us little people working & paying our taxes? It CAN'T. No living wage jobs- no working
stiffs making things happen. I'm not sorry to no longer be paying taxes to a bottomless pit of an economy that is going nowhere but down. The state
used to be the world's 6th largest economy when I was there- Not Anymore!
In case anyone wants to know, there definitely will be a domino effect on many other states. It's affecting Ohio & many other places. We have an
unemployment rate of over 10% in Ohio. There is going to have to be a revolution in America when honest working people can't make a living. "Tea
Parties" are not enough. Everyone has just about had it.
I get sick of people calling this lousy economy a "recession"- it's time to call a spade a spade, for heaven's sake. It is a depression. Why else
are homeless tent cities springing up all over this country? What's next?
reply to post by projectvxn
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 12:26 PM by Retseh
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Originally posted by SIEGE
I like the sound of "The Republic of California".
Trust me, so do the rest of us.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 12:31 PM by SIEGE
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Originally posted by Deianera
True, true, true; unfortunately so.
I spent half of my life in California; I left some time ago for Ohio because I was afraid that if I didn't my life was going to be cut short.
I lived in the San Francisco area. It is as expensive as New York or D.C. but the wages are no higher than the Midwest- generally $6 - 8.00 an hour.
Yes, there are jobs that pay more- nice work if you can get it! I got tired of working 2 or 3 jobs just to pay rent & put food on the table. It gets
old very fast.
The one bedroom apartment I have now at $450.00 a month would be about $1200.00 a month in San Francisco- you get the idea. My jobs back then when I
was still there? I was a dress designer. The firms I worked for paid $10.00 an hour at most; then nothing- all of the jobs in the garment industry
began being outsourced to be done overseas in China & Central America by folks that are little more than slaves.
I'm glad I left when I did. Since I left in '94, the state has had one disaster after another- Enron, earthquakes, & now the place is in its 6th
year of drought. Also worth mentioning are the drug dealers, the gangs, the horrible brush fires, & the rising air pollution in the state. Nasty.
As for Cal being a nanny state, I never saw evidence of that. The government began phasing out a lot of public aid in '91; Pres. Clinton's cap on
welfare did the rest. If people go there to get such benefits, they're going there to die. To paraphrase Woody Guthrie: You won't get nowhere in
California if you don't have the dough-re-mi. The many thousands of homeless there are dying in the streets every day.
What goes around, comes around- when working people who pay taxes can't afford to live on what they make, they have to go elsewhere. I left. A
quarter million more people move out than move into that state every year. It's been losing population for the above reasons for at least 20 years.
How does such an expensive state to live in survive without us little people working & paying our taxes? It CAN'T. No living wage jobs- no working
stiffs making things happen. I'm not sorry to no longer be paying taxes to a bottomless pit of an economy that is going nowhere but down. The state
used to be the world's 6th largest economy when I was there- Not Anymore!
In case anyone wants to know, there definitely will be a domino effect on many other states. It's affecting Ohio & many other places. We have an
unemployment rate of over 10% in Ohio. There is going to have to be a revolution in America when honest working people can't make a living. "Tea
Parties" are not enough. Everyone has just about had it.
I get sick of people calling this lousy economy a "recession"- it's time to call a spade a spade, for heaven's sake. It is a depression. Why else
are homeless tent cities springing up all over this country? What's next?
reply to post by projectvxn
Damn it, so you're the reason ! We've gone to hell since you've left.
Come back !
(Seriously, I like what you had to say.)
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 12:31 PM by Gorman91
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I am forced to agree with the side that says "action reaction, it was coming"
I've watched for so long California's slow civil decay into failure. It's showing in the outside now.
I really doubt they'll make it through.
My question is this. Can the federal government take over the state if it is collapsing and eroding away? Could that be the forerunner to more federal
control?
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 12:43 PM by thisguyrighthere
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Originally posted by Gorman91
My question is this. Can the federal government take over the state if it is collapsing and eroding away? Could that be the forerunner to more federal
control?
No, no, no, no, no.
The feds method of maintaining the practices and policies that have bankrupted CA will consist solely of funneling (extorting) funds from the rest of
the states into CA.
If, I stress IF, we see a massive reduction in state spending and a massive reduction in town spending which subsequently demands more state spending
which creates a greater overall tax burden and cost of living for all residents, I can tolerate a "support CA" movement.
BUT, given the some 230+ year track record the fed has I can guarantee and promise no reasonable or functional measures will be taken and that any
measure that is taken will only further push every state, every county, every town and every tax paying slave into absolute ruin.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 01:14 PM by Jadette
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Let's say that you have a good job, making lots of money. So you buy a big house. Heck, you're planning on 4 kids, so why not get in now while you
can? And while, sure, you can always save MORE for a rainy day, but there's a lot of things that you really need in order to provide you and your
family a good life. You have the money, so why not?
But then, your hours at work get cut back. But your boss reassures you, it'll be fine soon, back to normal. And you trust him, after all, shouldn't
he know? So you spend savings, you just muddle through for a while. Until your hours get cut back more. And you hear people talking about layoffs. And
then, you lose your job.
Now you start to panic. Unemployment isn't a tenth of what you need to live. But what to cut? You're committed to a lot of things, which do you get
rid of? You tell your wife and even teenage kids to start looking for jobs but they have no skills and the money they would make wouldn't solve
anything. In fact, even if you got rid of everything but the basics, it still wouldn't be enough to cover it.
And you my friend, are the state of California.
California didn't get here by being any different than anyone else. The financial and real estate crisis is just taking them down first. It's not a
symptom of their 'sins' but rather, the signs of the system breaking down, and they were the most vulnerable.
Don't hold Florida up as some example, their revenues have fallen 24% in the last 4 years, leaving them trying to make up for the 2.3 billion dollar
deficit that they had last year and the over 1 billion dollars that they don't have so far this year.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 01:20 PM by eniac
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Originally posted by midnightbrigade
Hmmm...could be seeing a reverse of the "Grapes of Wrath" type scenario... Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, don't come BACK to
Oklahoma.
Our state is doing pretty good, and we don't need morons who will pay $500,000 for a home that's only worth $100,000 driving up our cost of living.
funny... just as things started getting bad globally, last Oct. maybe, I picked up Grapes of Wrath. I'd read it years before, but kinda felt like it
was time again...
A very, very important book for our times. Any1 who hasn't read it, and who's worried about the economic future, should really read it. 
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 01:26 PM by thisguyrighthere
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Originally posted by Jadette
And while, sure, you can always save MORE for a rainy day, but there's a lot of things that you really need in order to provide you and your family a
good life. You have the money, so why not?
Because doing so is the epitome of short-sighted stupidity.
But then, your hours at work get cut back. But your boss reassures you, it'll be fine soon, back to normal. And you trust him, after all, shouldn't
he know? So you spend savings, you just muddle through for a while. Until your hours get cut back more. And you hear people talking about layoffs. And
then, you lose your job.
This has been the case all throughout history. A cold snap kills the crop. The herd didnt come through the same place this yearr etc.. The troubles
have been the same for millions of years. Trouble is the capacity for fools to learn lessons has remained the same as well.
California didn't get here by being any different than anyone else.
That's the problem. Everyone and everything from the individual to the state to the fed has been making the same stupid choices and the same stupid
mistakes for as long as they have existed and they refuse to learn. The minority who has prepared and taken extraordinary efforts to protect
themselves and there's are always pillaged for the sake of the assinine majority.
It's no surprise to anyone but the the youngest of children and the simplest of adults it was going to come to this. There will be a long overdue
correction made much, much, much worse by the fact it has been put off by imbeciles for as long as it has and after an extremely brief period of
responsibility we're repeat this garbage all over again while myself and others who see the bull for what it is are repeatedly mocked for first being
"cheap" later being "afraid" then finally for not being "understanding" toward the situation everyone else has gotten themselves into.
This is like making excuses for the sunset. It's no surprise it's coming yet so many idiots keep running around wasting all the flashlight batteries
playing stupid games. Around 1130 at night they beat me to death for my flashlight.
Over and over and over and over again.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 01:53 PM by nixie_nox
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A lot of the states problems is that since building and home sales are nill, there has been a huge loss in tax revenue that was there previously, and
Cali isn't the only state suffereing from this loss. There is a lot of money that comes in from home sales, land sales, and construction. All of a
sudden that revenue is dropped and you have states scrambling trying to cover the gap. One out of eight Americans live in California. So it is no
wonder they have been hit hard by the housing crisis. This isn't just about spending, it is about income as well.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 02:36 PM by balon0
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Originally posted by Jim Scott
Actually, I live in California and do not feel this occurring. Mortgage companies are working with homeowners that qualify for resetting of
mortgages. Some incomes are diminished and do not qualify....
You live in CA, therefore you live in USA. So do you also "feel" that the economy of USA is getting better as we speak and is recovering? Since
you do live in USA and things around you are doing so well.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 03:24 PM by burdman30ott6
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I played around with the LA Times little "Balance the budget yourself" game/tool/ap yesterday and, even considering how grossly limited it was (they
only placed ideas which the legislature or governor had already thrown onto the table into the selectable cuts/taxes) I was able to provide California
with a $60 Mil surplus, without raising taxes (except for one tax increase on, I believe imported goods) and without illegally raiding state worker
pensions and comp funds.
It can be done, but it's gonna hurt like a D in the A. California has waited and waited and waited and applied Band-Aid after Band-Aid, and now that
they're forced to finally see their doctor they're discovering that what was once a minor wound has become gangrene thanks to inaction by their
leaders. What started out as a cut on the finger years ago when California first started having to borrow money to keep afloat AND continue to
support a growing array of scoial welfare and entitlement programs has now infected the entire arm so badly that it is threatening to bring death to
the body (the state as a whole). That means the arm is going to need amputated. It's time to say "Bye-bye" to most all forms of welfare and
entitlement as California knows them, along with that a lot of educational funding (at all levels) is going to have to be eliminated. This is
directly blameable on the entirety of California's state government for years and years of indecisiveness, bickering, and a complete unwillingness to
compromise.
...and as much as the politicians there whine about Prop 13, all Californians should be praising Jesus and rejoicing over the fact that they have that
2/3rds majority ofr a tax increase law on the books or else you'd be paying 25-30% income taxes before this even started and be staring at the
probabillity of even higher rates coming your way to fund your government's lack of financial inteligence.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 04:01 PM by Deianera
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Hello, Illusive Druid- thanks for your sense of humor. I always say, if we can't laugh, we'll have to cry. Good luck, seeing as you're still
there.
reply to post by SIEGE
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 04:22 PM by sliceNodice
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I live right next to the capitol... I'm frightened, I gotta admit.
I'm frightened for two reasons... one: crime/ protests turning into riots.. and two: the United States wont survive all these states going under.
[edit on 1-7-2009 by sliceNodice]
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 04:53 PM by AceOfAces
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Lets not forget it isnt just california...there are at least 4-5 other states with the same issues as california and under the same circumstances as
they try to struggle to remain a state.
I honestly hope once the people see the government swoop in with nothing but greedy big smiles and they begin to take over states one by one, people
actually begin to do something. This wait and see mentality that we are in is the reason why the government is growing at an unstoppable and
unprecedented rate.
I for one hope California does fail so we can make an example out of it. How can one of the highest income states with all those people working be
going broke? Things are starting to smell so fishy I might need a shower.
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 05:02 PM by kleverone
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 05:37 PM by projectvxn
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Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by projectvxn
Not a rosy picture you paint. But with the taxes Californians pay, the unemployment, the rampant cuts on what some consider basic services and
programs and with the coming civil unrest, I simply cannot fathom why anyone would want to live in that state. Time to get the hell out and find a new
place to live.
It's true, it is quite a bleak scenario. But we are beyond being able to make it rosy. And while this crisis could easily be fixed with common sense
ideas, it won't change how the creditors will react. They are the true lifegivers here. California will ALWAYS be in this mess so long as their
borrowing costs continue to inflate with further credit rating reductions.
While I understand that what I said sounds a lot like doom and gloom, I assure you that I am a technical person, not a sensationalist. I WANT to find
a solution to these problems. But California is between a rock and a hard place, a catch 22. There's NOTHING that can be done. Because once you have
all of the information, the true data of the depth of California's debt crisis, and you will see why I'm not inclined to paint a rosy picture
here.
It is these state by state fiscal crises that in September of 08 told me that we were headed for a national collapse. It is doubtful that the Federal
Government will bail out California or any other state. If they do the Fed will force our creditors to drop our rating by a couple of notches, if that
happens inflation will shoot through the highest of roofs. If they do bailout the states it will have to be a blanket bailout and the Fed does not
have the balance sheet to do it. It would be a purely political move based on little or no data. If it happens, bet your ass it was engineered.
[edit on 1-7-2009 by projectvxn]
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 05:57 PM by carolina1737
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California is in such a bad position because all the handouts to the poor are killing it. Especially illegal immigrants just taking from public
services and not giving back. The Gubernator wants to stop the problem but just can't
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reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 06:12 PM by projectvxn
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reply to post by carolina1737
California's problems are FAR more complicated than hand outs to poor people and illegal immigrants. I recommend getting better acquainted with
Sacramento's budget office and see what their borrowing costs are like. Everything from entitlement programs to police are borrowed and at HEAVY
cost.
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