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True or False? 11 million Germans killed after WW2 by allies

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posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


I have no problem believing this to be true!! the U.S. covered up alot

of things back then, and still does now days!!! We are never told the

truth about anything here in the U.S., we have to read between the lines,

and draw our own conclusions. Good thread, flag & star




posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by warrenb
 


True or False? 11 million Germans killed after WW2 by allies

The number I have always heard most is about 9 million, including (mostly) military from all branches. Considering the scale that this war was waged upon, it is probably on the light side... just as the 22 million that Russia lost and most of those civilians. (The US lost about 500 thousand, all told.)

When considering the death toll of any conflict, one must take into account the both deaths directly related to combat and those that would be considered as collateral. The latter would include civilians who died as a result of the war and any associated plagues and diseases which are a natural follower of such things. . . .


This thread is not about Germans killed by the Allies during the war. It's about those killed after the war.

Some sources suggest about 1,000,000 Germans died in caged areas that couldn't be classed as camps, run by the Americans in post-war Germany. Most died of starvation.

Under Eisenhower's command, these Germans, mostly soldiers, were denied the basic necessities of life.
They were forced to live crowded together in fields with no protection from the harsh cold other than holes they dug with their bare hands. They ate the grass from underfoot in an effort to fill their empty bellies. And, in a prelude to what FEMA would do years later in New Orleans, Eisenhower sent any donations of food away, preferring to make the Germans starve.

The ones that survived this were used as slave labor by the allies. France used them to clear minefields, killing many 1000s of them in the process.

Eisenhower's Death Camps

War Crimes: USA Part 2

HOW ALLIES TREATED GERMAN POWs

German after-war prisoners dug trenches to escape American night-time bullets!

In a U.S. Death Camp - 1945

German POW's Diary Reveals Post War US Camp Horrors

FRANCE'S DEADLY MINE-CLEARING MISSIONS
Surviving German POWs Seek Compensation

Mass Killings and Brutal Mistreatment of Germans
at the End of World War Two

After the End: Who Put the Bad in Bad Kreuznach?

Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union


Some people argue that this was just because of a lack of food. However they have generally not heard of the Morgenthau Plan, under which all of Germany was to be systematically starved, and its industry dismantled.

Morgenthau Plan

David Irving's Introduction to the Morgenthau Plan

The Morgenthau Plan and the Problem of Policy Perversion



Public disgust with this plan in America resulted in it being superseded by the Marshal Plan, much to General Eisenhower's disgust. Unable to starve all Germans to death, he dod his utmost to at least starve as many soldiers as he could.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
If what the OP quoted was true, then why was the United States and the allies involved in the great Berlin Airlift of 1948 and 1949 to get food, fuel, and supplies to the people of Germany?

It all seems highly unlikely...plus many people would have been witness to 11,000,000 German deaths after the war, if that actually occurred. One would think that those witnesses would have mentioned something about this before if these deaths were a direct result of government "policy".

I suppose there was some ethnic cleansing (that will always happen, and still happens today), and there were deaths due to starvation (that, too will unfortunately always happen) -- but it is a much different thing to say that many of these deaths were caused by a concerted and deliberate effort by the allies.


I have no idea, clue or opinion on the OP. I know I wouldn't really consider Russia to be an "ally" of WW2. So that would probably reduce the numbers of the claim as "allies" down a bit. Even during WW2 their were struggles between the US and Russia, as well as a made scramble in the pacific towards the end. Not shooting each other as far as I know, but they both already thought of each other as threats. So they were each wanting territory and such to more secure themselves. There was the same mad rush for Berlin too and we can see how the country split up down the middle.

However, to answer your question this is called "watch what my left hand does, and not what my right hand does". Or among illusionist, slight of hand. This is an old old tactic and is used in all things "public relations". You publicly do good things, for the eyes of men, while in private you do bad things they can't see or know about.

Of course "that people don't know about it", doesn't mean it by default happened. As it's private and not public, then it's just simply not known. And so we would of course give the benefit of the doubt until such evidence is provided. As it is better to miss an injustice, than punish an innocent party. Or, innocent until proven guilty. Of course, one must always keep in mind that this is exactly what those who do bad things in private count on, so you should not dismiss things very quickly and keep and open mind.

But it's all about watching the "good" hand while the other hand works in the shadows. This kind of stuff is the real "Magic" and "Sorcery" of the world, not harry potter stuff.

[edit on 6/30/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
The number I have always heard most is about 9 million, including (mostly) military from all branches. Considering the scale that this war was waged upon, it is probably on the light side... just as the 22 million that Russia lost and most of those civilians. (The US lost about 500 thousand, all told.)

When considering the death toll of any conflict, one must take into account the both deaths directly related to combat and those that would be considered as collateral. The latter would include civilians who died as a result of the war and any associated plagues and diseases which are a natural follower of such things. . . .

This thread is not about Germans killed by the Allies during the war. It's about those killed after the war.

Some sources suggest about 1,000,000 Germans died in caged areas that couldn't be classed as camps, run by the Americans in post-war Germany. Most died of starvation.

Under Eisenhower's command, these Germans, mostly soldiers, were denied the basic necessities of life.
They were forced to live crowded together in fields with no protection from the harsh cold other than holes they dug with their bare hands. They ate the grass from underfoot in an effort to fill their empty bellies. And, in a prelude to what FEMA would do years later in New Orleans, Eisenhower sent any donations of food away, preferring to make the Germans starve.

The ones that survived this were used as slave labor by the allies. France used them to clear minefields, killing many 1000s of them in the process.

FRANCE'S DEADLY MINE-CLEARING MISSIONS

Mass Killings and Brutal Mistreatment of Germans at the End of World War Two

After the End: Who Put the Bad in Bad Kreuznach?

Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union

Some people argue that this was just because of a lack of food. However they have generally not heard of the Morgenthau Plan, under which all of Germany was to be systematically starved, and its industry dismantled.

David Irving's Introduction to the Morgenthau Plan; the Problem of Policy Perversion

Public disgust with this plan in America resulted in it being superseded by the Marshal Plan, much to General Eisenhower's disgust. Unable to starve all Germans to death, he dod his utmost to at least starve as many soldiers as he could.


Kailassa,

Your post rocks! If the original poster wanted some answers he got them.


Furthermore, we mustn't forget that those who ran the war were working both sides, and part of the plan was to test new eugenics and mind control techniques as well as reduce population. Both were well achieved even if furthered later, and they are ready to shift into overdrive today with engineered pandemics, wars and already 1 Billion starving as we speak thanks to the long planned worldwide economic crisis.

The Zionist Royalist Masonic fragment of the Elite who were running the show took advantage of most aspects of the war to further their agenda. I spoke with a man who testified that he had personally interviewed and selected the soldiers that were slated to die on D-Day. They were carefully chosen among US Army volunteers according to social class, education and wealth. You can guess that they lacked in each category, thus improving the gene pool by eliminating the 'lesser carriers' before they could reproduce. Hitler quoted the USA as inspiring his eugenics, this confirms the fact. We can only imagine why they chose the best defended beaches to launch the D-Day onslaught where the majority lost their lives. Heroes or lambs for the slaughter, take you pick.

We also know that they bombed civilian cities in Germany long after the war was technically won, killing countless women and children. This wanton savagery was not questioned, and one might even imagine that the horrors committed by the Nazis helped cover up some of the allies glorious deeds which cannot be explained outside of depopulation theories. Testing on human guinea pigs was the best explanation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which were not at all necessary to defeat Japan, only to show to what horrors the allied commanders were ready to stoop.

Similar types are today preparing both HOT as well as SILENT wars. We are to be purged as were the populations of each nationality involved in the World Wars. Take your pick on the method. The only solution is to wake up to these folks who have nothing to envy the Nazis regarding what absence of morality or even basic humanity guides their misdeeds. Some here at ATS find it more comforting to believe that they are either accomplices or disguised aliens, given that this would mean that actual human beings couldn't stoop so low. But apparently they can and do.

Time to Get Smart & Wake Up.


[edit on 30-6-2009 by Getsmart]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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I would have to say false. My grandparents lived through the time and my parents would have been small children (6-9 years old) and no one has even hinted at anything like this in all my life. And my grandmother was quite outspoken about that time so if there was something like this going on I'm sure she would have made mention of it.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by TheComte
I would have to say false. My grandparents lived through the time and my parents would have been small children (6-9 years old) and no one has even hinted at anything like this in all my life. And my grandmother was quite outspoken about that time so if there was something like this going on I'm sure she would have made mention of it.


With all my repect to your grandparents, maybe you can tell us where they were living during those years. I ask you this, because all this scary events happened inside of Germany...



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by MorgothaM
 


They were living inside of Germany. They were German.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by MorgothaM
 


They were living inside of Germany. They were German.


So, at the end I have to quote me again


Originally posted by MorgothaM
Despite this information, and of course, with the opinion of a major part of ATS people, this doesn't matter...

The only importants deaths of WW2 was jews... the rest of us, must go to hell...(we are animals, remember that)


Thanks so much, case closed.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 


well the old adage: an eye for an eye, leads me to believe it is entirely possible.

Historically, civilian populations have always suffered for the wrongs of their military and governments actions.



eye for an eye? If your logic is correct then the Iraqi people get to kill thousands of americans right? It leads me to believe that we're no better then the nazis.

Alien Mind



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by Alien Mind
 


what do you think all the deaths of foreigners (military/contractors/civilians) in Iraq are?

The world's more extreme game of hop-scotch?



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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I know they estimate 12-16 million Germans were forced from various countries in Europe and treated very poorly before and during such. About 2 million died then.

I know that they were used as labor and beated, raped and killed. Starved. Anti-German sentiment was very strong. People blamed all Germans for the Nazis, rightly or wrongly. And these pocket ethnic populations were some of the justification Hitler used to invade, making their presence after the war, all the more unwelcome.


www.bbc.co.uk...
en.wikipedia.org...
forum.axishistory.com...



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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Most of the displaced ended up in the british and american occupation zones, where they were fed and housed as best as was possible under the current situation. A large portion of the displaced civilian germans from eastern europe were ordered to leave by the german army as it retreated from the advancing soviets.
These germans who were ordered to germany by the nazi government, were all stopped at racial assesment centers, to make sure that they fit with the racial norms of the super race. Those that were aryan enough were sent on through to germany proper and those who werent were sent to work or death camps. They actually kept it up to the point where they were still sorting people out as they were captured by the soviets.
In all of the formerly nazi occupied countries there was a severe backlash against the german people who remained. In most countries all property owned by germans was seized.
The us and britain were uniformly against forced removal of people, its one of the reasons the war was fought, and the allied occupied terrritories couldnt support the influx of people.
In fact when the dutch expelled a number of germans to the british occupation zone, the british inturn expelled an equal number of dutch living in germany. The dutch held the grudge the longest, not formally revoking the state of war with germany till 1955 or so.
The dutch,french and british used german pow's as labor to repair war damage.
What was done by individual fromerly nazi occupied territories and the soviet union can hardly be attributed to the Allies, the soviets stopped being an ally as soon as germany surrendered.
The current state of affairs in the balkans between the muslims and non muslims really has its roots in nazi occupation of yugoslavia.
The ss recruited bosnian muslims in to the ss in the later stages of the war, the muslim ss units commited some of the most horrific attrocities that the nazis inflicted on civilians. They were such raqbid nazis that hitlers personal body guard was comprised of muslim ss at the time of his suicide.

Things were very tough all across europe in the years after the war and well into the fifities and early sixties.
Germans werent the only ones that starved, italians, greeks, czeks, poles, romanians, hungarians ,
every body had a a very tough time of it for many years.


One thing could have been done differently,
















GERMANY COULD HAVE NOT STARTED THE WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by Alien Mind
It leads me to believe that we're no better then the nazis.

Alien Mind



UHMMMM its a long way from Iraq to nazi germany, and Im not talking miles either.
Were not rounding up entire towns and executing them in the streets.
Were not gassing people in factories of death.
Were not pulling the gold teeth of still living people as they are put into the gas chambers.
Were not making lampshades from human skin

need I go on.


What happend in iraq is a tragedy, but it was a tragedy that was bound to happen in some form or another within the time frame that it did.
I dont agree with the invasion or subsequent occupation, but iraq is better off now than it would have been if saddam or his family was left in power.
One of his sons was a madman the other just cruel and smart, and they had been jockying for position for several years.
Once saddam was no longer able to rule the power struggle would have exploded, id imagine a civil war would have started, and that would have gotten ugly fast.

neighboring countries would have got in on it, and it would have turned into a sunni/shia & arab/everybody else conflict on top of it all.
At least with us forcing the situation we were able to control it and keep it from turning into a much wider scaled conflict, that wouldnt die down for generations, or drag the rest of the world into it.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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I don't know if this is true or not, but I would'nt be surprised if it were.

Have any of you seen or read The Pianist? It's the true story of Wladyslaw Szpilman, a Polish Jew. In the memoir, Szpilman is aided by a German officer named Wilhelm Hosenfeld and after the war ends, he is seen in a Soviet POW camp by a contemporary of Szpilman. The officer asks the contemporary, Zygmunt Lednicki to find Szpilman and ask him to help get him out of the camp, as the officer had saved Szpilman by bringing him food and not giving him up to the other officers. When Szpilman and his friend Lednicki return to the camp they find it is not there anymore and Hosenfeld's fate is unknown.

After a little research I found that Hosenfeld was sentenced to 25 years in prison. He was also tortured by the Soviets. He died in captitivty, possibly as a result of the tortures.

Sources:
Yad Vashem
The Pianist [memoir]

All of that leads me to believe there were similar cases of imprisonment and torture to German officers by the Soviets. There have been stories of people being treated worse by the Soviets than the Germans. I've read alot of books relating to the SS, the concentration camps, Adolf Hitler, But again, the books have all been written by those on the "Winning" side, and the Allies working their German prisoners into the ground would make them no better than the Germans exterminating the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc. Not something to be proud of.

So I am not suprised we haven't heard more about this.



[edit on 1-7-2009 by Vilyariel]



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
i could see stalin doing some thing like this, just look how he treated his own people! but the US doing it, seems kinda far out there to me.
hell were there even 11 million germans after the war, i thought that at the begaining of the war germany only had a little over 30 million people.
and we killed i dont know how during the war.



Wow - what do call using nuclear weapons on cities of innocent women and children devoid of all military targets ? Are you for real ? Japan had been fire bombed, every city had been wiped out with hundreds of thousands killed in each city before the atomic weapons were even dropped - Robert McNamara ADMITTED it was only to show the Russians the willingness of the US - there was no military advantage - millions, upon millions of women and children were burnt and nuked to death - by the US. No Military need.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
If what the OP quoted was true, then why was the United States and the allies involved in the great Berlin Airlift of 1948 and 1949 to get food, fuel, and supplies to the people of Germany?

......................etc


I find it astonishing the level of historical ignorance on this site - the airlift was to alleviate the blockade set up by the division of Berlin by the communists - simple.

Please read "All the dead cities" by A.c.Grayling one the UK's most respected historians - this information is well known, it is totally accepted and common knowledge - however not by Americans. Again it never ceases to amaze me at the level of American ignorance - although it is amusing to watch how "shocked" you are every time you discover a new piece of history which everyone else has taken for granted their whole lives.....funny stuff.

The Allies were also brutally raping and dismembering German citizens as well as soldiers - it was a bitter reprisal of astonishing brutality which the west has long had to bear the shame of - that along with the greatest crime against humanity ever committed - the Atomic Weapons against Japan -

reading is good - try it out.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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My father was a German POW in a British camp in northern Italy after the war. He said the only thing that kept him from starvation were his mechanical abilities, which allowed him to earn an extra ration by working on the British army trucks. But even he had to escape later on to assure his survival.

My mother, 11 years old at the time, got to watch German women being raped on the side of the road by Russian soldiers as the whole family fled to the west. And got to watch as her handicapped mother's home-made wheel chair got busted up out of sheer malice by other Russians.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by starviego
 


All true. What Americans fail to realise is that there is no good vs evil, merely us and them. Some are able to see that this clouds the objectivity - some are not that considered.




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