True or False? 11 million Germans killed after WW2 by allies

Four million persons perished because of the ethnic cleansing carried out by, Russians, Poles, Czechs, and Serbs according to the former German Prime Minister Konrad Adenauer,

Five million Germans starved to death in occupied Germany according to estimates by the Canadian James Bacque, and 2 million German Soldiers died in allied captivity often while performing slave labor in Auschwitz like - and worse - conditions.

General Eisenhower prohibited the German Public from sharing their own meager rations with detained German soldiers on pain of death. Hence from 1944 until 1948 a U.S. and Russian Holocaust for the Germans was on going.

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Are there any experts or trusted sources to back this up?

If true how come it's not common knowledge?

deleted: the mods are after me

[edit on 30-6-2009 by pluckynoonez]

reply to post by warrenb


If it was true, I'm sure this would be public knowledge, after all, 11,000,000 people is a lot. Never heard a peep about such a thing in Germany.

I'm sure the former DDR/Soviet Union would've loved to stick it in the eyes of the allies, too.

reply to post by warrenb


Good question. Not heard of it previously on such a scale, although I am aware of the Soviet expulsions from Prussia as a friend of mine experienced it personally as a child.

Stalin was no angel, thats for sure.

I'll do some digging and maybe try and read that book.

Well, lets role play here. You can be the Soviet Union. Germany went back on their agreement, and nearly destroyed your entire country. They kill upwards of 11 million of your own people. You are telling me that you would be nice to the POWs?

I post two links here, there are a book out and this would not surprise me one bit, it is going on now even, but eyes are on MJ..

Source One

General Eisenhower prohibited the German Public from sharing their own meager rations with detained German soldiers on pain of death. Hence from 1944 until 1948 a U.S. and Russian Holocaust for the Germans was on going.

For more information on this topic see books by the following authors: James Bacque (Other Losses) (Crimes and Mercies), Alfred M. de Zayas (Die Wehrmacht-Untersuch ungstelle) and (The Nemisis of Potsdam), Guido Knopp (Die Gefangenen), Erich Kern and Karl Balzer (Allierte Verbrechen and Deutschen). A similarly important historical document is the book titled (Alliierte Kriegsverbrechen) which translates to "Allied War Crimes".

Source Two

The book "Gruesome Harvest," should be on the mandatory highschool and college reading list for history and sociology.

It is one of the few books that are available in English that address the murder of millions of non-combatant German civilians and German prisoners of war from 1944 to 1950 as a matter of deliberate allied policy not inefficient logistics as it is most often presented in school text books.

It is important because this book was written as it was still happening and includes comments from eye witnesses in the same time period. The book is not politically correct and shocked me because it speaks in a such a predudicial fashion about persons of the black race.

That however in this point makes it useful to sociologist and historians because it correctly reflects widely held opinion at the time within U.S. society.

As to the correct observation that allied policy was to reduce the German population through, murder in multiple forms, slave labor, and starvation, and destroy the fabric of the society through mass rape of the female population, other authors are critized for saying the same thing but only decades later.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by ChemBreather]

[edit on 30-6-2009 by ChemBreather]

A quick google search on the book referenced in the OP's link 'Gruesome Harvest" by Franklin Keeling, seems to show that there is some legitimacy to these claims. From the little I was able to gleam it is mostly related to German deaths as they were overcome by Russian advance.

Interesting enough to solicit further inquiry ...

However, as suspected, it is obvious that this has been embraced by several neo-nazi websites and forums for their own agendas.

History is never as 'clean' as we are taught in school, wars even less so. The good guy/bad guy paradigm that pervades educational and cultural constructs is far too simplistic to account for such accuracy and detail. Not to mention that their intent is not to educate but to subjicate.

But there's also a danger in all this, in many ways if one is going to start researching these events, it's either got to be all or nothing. Lest some, like the 'white power' folk, merely pick and chose those bits which help them rationalize their dogmas.

Like I said, worth an honest look.

[edit on 30 Jun 2009 by schrodingers dog]

If what the OP quoted was true, then why was the United States and the allies involved in the great Berlin Airlift of 1948 and 1949 to get food, fuel, and supplies to the people of Germany?

It all seems highly unlikely...plus many people would have been witness to 11,000,000 German deaths after the war, if that actually occurred. One would think that those witnesses would have mentioned something about this before if these deaths were a direct result of government "policy".

I suppose there was some ethnic cleansing (that will always happen, and still happens today), and there were deaths due to starvation (that, too will unfortunately always happen) -- but it is a much different thing to say that many of these deaths were caused by a concerted and deliberate effort by the allies.

reply to post by warrenb


I have also heard some info about this over the years. It's understandable that many Germans would have died under the occupation but I have come across some info about the cleansing. Mainly by the poles, Serbs and Russians.

I'll dig around and see if I can find any of that info.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Heard about Coverups and lies ? that is all you get from governments, they lie constantly and force thru their agenda..

Nothing more, it is a simple consept..
People are afraid to speak up and the govt. know it ..

i could see stalin doing some thing like this, just look how he treated his own people! but the US doing it, seems kinda far out there to me.
hell were there even 11 million germans after the war, i thought that at the begaining of the war germany only had a little over 30 million people.
and we killed i dont know how during the war.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


well the old adage: an eye for an eye, leads me to believe it is entirely possible.

Historically, civilian populations have always suffered for the wrongs of their military and governments actions.

just did a serach, 1939 pre war germany 69,623,000.
if this is ture, more than 20% loss of population from 1939, war and cleanesing.

and people say that the germans were monsters. not all of them beleived in the things hitler and his buddy's did.



[edit on 30-6-2009 by hounddoghowlie]

i could see stalin doing some thing like this, just look how he treated his own people! but the US doing it, seems kinda far out there to me.

Ditto for my feelings as well.

Here's a classic example; when the German 6th Army under Generalfeldmarschall Friedrich von Paulus surrendered at Stalingrad in Feb 1943 he led almost 100,000 German soldiers into captivity, the Russians treated them like a traveling circus and marched them through Moscow in cages before sending them off to the gulags in Sibera ... when they were finally repatriated in 1955 only about 6,000 were still alive.

The Soviets were f--king brutal monsters.

Despite this information, and of course, with the opinion of a major part of ATS people, this doesn't matter...

The only importants deaths of WW2 was jews... the rest of us, must go to hell...(we are animals, remember that)

This is very worrying possibility. I knew that ethnic Germans were thrown from Eastern Europe countries after WW2 , in what can be called ethnic cleansing. Also i assumed that Soviet camps were almost sure end of German POWs, but i never heard about this. Author does not appear to be closet Nazi, so his research might be valid, he has critics but he also has accredited followers. I think that now united Germany has to make some kind of research into this, 5 million civilians dying of hunger in 1945-49? Unthinkable.
I kind of find it hard to trust, given the nature of FRG economic bloom, but if those guys achieved it with such a death toll (especially in the working age sector that was hit hard by war, and now is claimed that it also lost so much after it) - they deserve respect. I only wonder what would Germany achieve if there was no Hitler and thus no such losses.

The only importants deaths of WW2 was jews

You kind of miss the point. Jews were not most important, Jews were not the majority - by far. The whole point of Holocaust was that Jews were killed because they were Jews. German person in FRG helping Americans was not killed/starved. German person in GDR helping the Soviets was not killed/starved. Polish person helping Nazis was not killed/starved. But if a person was declared Jew by Nazi law - it did no matter if he was in Nazi party,he fell under final solution's category. It was also not only Jewish thing, Gypsies had similar treatment. And i think that it should be also taught together.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


he was being sarcastic

reply to post by warrenb


I am aware of that. My point is to show that the only reason for sarcasm is lack of understanding of the problem. I am pretty sure that if some ,hmm - lets say pro-Zionist person would say that Jews are most important and others are just animals you guys would (and totally justified in this case) chew him up and spit him out in seconds.

reply to post by warrenb

True or False? 11 million Germans killed after WW2 by allies

The number I have always heard most is about 9 million, including (mostly) military from all branches. Considering the scale that this war was waged upon, it is probably on the light side... just as the 22 million that Russia lost and most of those civilians. (The US lost about 500 thousand, all told.)

When considering the death toll of any conflict, one must take into account the both deaths directly related to combat and those that would be considered as collateral. The latter would include civilians who died as a result of the war and any associated plagues and diseases which are a natural follower of such things.

It is difficult, especially for those too young to remember these conflicts, to rationalize the deaths. Instances that include bombings from the air and long distance strikes like missile barrages, only see the end result. But to truly understand 'why', one must study the entire episode. In the case of WW2, it is important to first get a grip on 'why' the war was fought to begin with... something not as easy as counting heads.

Best

reply to post by warrenb


Its true, what do you expect.


The nazis made a lot of enemies if you might not have noticed.
And after what they did all across europe it surprises anybody that there was retribution.
The soviets and communist regimes that they installed in eastern europe were the worst offenders,
But for every ethnic german toiling in a soviet gulag id wager there were 10 soviets being held.
With all the pain and suffering that the germans inflicted on the people of europe, 2 wars in 25 years, I think they got off pretty easy.
Europe could have gone all "the final solution" on them and turned nazi germany's industry of killing on the german people.