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Compulsory ID cards to be scrapped as Government performs humiliating U-turn (UK)

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posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:10 AM

Compulsory ID cards to be scrapped as Government performs humiliating U-turn (UK)

British citizens will never be forced to carry ID cards, the Government announced today.

In a humiliating U-turn, Home Secretary Alan Johnson said that a trial scheme that was to force some airport staff to carry the controversial cards has been scrapped.

The massive climbdown by the Government means that carrying an ID card will now never be made compulsory for members of the general public.

Previously, ministers said ID cards could become compulsory once 80 per cent of the population was covered.

The cards were being trialled at Manchester Airport and London City Airport prior
(visit the link for the full news article)

Related News Links:


Mod Edit: fixed bbcode

[edit on 6/30/2009 by JacKatMtn]

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:10 AM
Thank God the ID card scheme has finally been curtailled.
Although they will continue pushing it as a voluntary card,and it will still be compulsory for foriegners.

We should all thank the pilots who refused to take part in the pilot scheme IMHO,as that was the turning point in the governments thinking.

No "papers please" for British nationals in our own land!!
Thats saved alot of rioting I think.

At last a home secretary with more than one brain cell!!!
Will that make me vote Labour?HELL NO,but its a start!

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(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:13 AM
I don't get the big deal with everyone not wanting an ID card... They want to be kept of the grid or whatever...


When you are born you get a birth certificate...
Doctors Perscriptions and files...

What difference is another piece of information about you going to do...

Makes me laugh because people generally feel they are a threat to the government talking on this site...

They have more important issues at hand believe me!

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:38 AM
reply to post by The Shade

The big deal for me was having to pay an extortionate amount of money to our Government to 'allow' us to retain our liberty...There has been plenty of talk about how the governmnet would fine and/or lock up those who would refuse to buy the ID card.

Another big deal was the cost of the scheme,10s of billions of pounds...We cannot afford such a scheme in the UK today.

Also,the civil liberties issues of having to carry ID cards at all times,which was what they first wanted.

I know we have to have things like Passports and driving licences,but they make sense...the ID card did not make sense to me.The line we were fed so often by Jaqui Schmidtt was how they would totally stop terrorism in one fell swoop...

That never made sense to me either.

from the BBC article:

ID cards were initially promoted as an anti-terror measure, but Mr Johnson said they should not have been sold as the "panacea for tackling terrorism." The rollout of the ID card scheme will be accelerated on a voluntary basis for UK citizens, starting in Greater Manchester by the end of the year. Residents in other locations in the North West will be able to apply from early 2010, while the government's intention is to roll out the scheme in London in the same year - 12 months early.

Some issues about the (now dying)scheme are laid out on the no2id site:

Massive accumulation of personal data #
50 categories of registrable fact are set out in the Bill, though they could be added to. Effectively an index to all other official and quasi-official records, through cross-references and an audit trail of all checks on the Register, the NIR would be the key to a total life history of every individual, to be retained even after death.

Lifelong surveillance and the meta-database #
Every registered individual will be under an obligation to notify any change in registrable facts. It is a clear aim of the system to require identity verification for many more civil transactions, the occasions to be stored in the audit trail. Information verified and indexed by numbers from the NIR would be easily cross-referenced in any database or set of databases. The "meta-database" of all the thousands of databases cross-referenced is much more powerful and much less secure than the NIR itself.


Discrimination—no guarantees #
There have been vapid "assurances" made to some minority groups. That underlines the potential for threat. The system offers a ready-made police-state tool for a future government less trustworthy than the current one. A Home Secretary could create classifications of individuals to be registered as he sees fit, introducing onerous duties backed by severe penalties for fractions of the population. Religious or ethnic affiliation, for example, could be added to the Register by regulation—or be inferred by cross-referencing other information using a National Identity Register Number or associated data.
"Papers, please" #
ID cards in practice would provide a pretext for those in authority—public or private—to question individuals who stand out for reasons of personal appearance or demeanour. This is likely to exacerbate divisions in society. The Chairman of the Bar Council has asked, "is there not a great risk that those who feel at the margins of society—the somewhat disaffected—will be driven into the arms of extremists?"
Third party abuse #
The requirement that all those registered notify all changes in details risks creating the means of tracking and persecution through improper use of the database. A variety of persons have good reason to conceal their identity and whereabouts; for example: those fleeing domestic abuse; victims of "honour" crimes; witnesses in criminal cases; those at risk of kidnapping; undercover investigators; refugees from oppressive regimes overseas; those pursued by the press; those who may be terrorist targets. The seizure of ID cards (like benefit-books and passports now) will become a means for extortion by gangsters.

I for one am glad this scheme is being at least toned down-volutary cards I have no problem with...lets see how many people want to volunteer to give away £100 pound odd for their ID card.

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:48 AM
I wouldn't relax just yet as I read somewhere that the govt gave a £400 million contract to the company that supplies the paper for british banknotes FOR ID cards already.
Hope I'm wrong but it could already be a done deal.

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:00 AM
reply to post by Badfuture

They did yes,and other companies had bid on the contracts to produce the cards-but I think that was under the previous home secretary,not sure.

The database will still go on though,sadly.
They don,t need the ID card to track and trace movements and purchases these days,what with RFID and mobile phones being just as good at that.
There was a thread about how mobile phones will soon be able to be used as a form of credit/debit card-so they can get away without the cards I guess.

This climb down is in all probability designed to claw back some votes for a labour government in its last pathetic gasps of existence.

I am just glad I won't get sent to prison for sticking to my principles,and refusing to buy/carry an ID card.

There is always the chance that the governmnet could make it compulsory to have an ID card to access certain services at some point in the future too.
This would make it neccessary to own a "voluntary" card if you needed to use hospitals/banks/social services etc.

This I could see them trying unfortunatley.

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:01 AM
I didn't know they had plans to make ID cards compulsory. I thought they eventually would but didn't know they had started trials. We don't want ID cards. Good riddance.

If they wanted me to have one they would have to drag me away kicking and screaming, then forcibly tattoo it onto my forehead. I could have been a YouTube hit.

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse

No "papers please" for British nationals in our own land!!
Thats saved alot of rioting I think.

There wouldn't have been any riots, not unless football was involved.

I'm sure the huge "public outcry" helped kill this, a public outcry in the UK being when 2 blokes in a pub complain about something.

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:19 AM
reply to post by The Shade

Bingo! This is the "waaa waaa waaa" group that screams "Conspiracy!!! Governmental hit men!!! Mayhem and murder!!!" about the upcoming Census in the US then screams "Conspiracy!!!!! Governmental hit men!!!! Mayhem and murder!!!" when health services are cut because of incorrect budgets due to faulty Census stats.

There is NOTHING wrong with carrying a g-----m ID card folks, if you are that paranoid about being "found out" you obviously have something to hide and shouldn't be posting on a public forum where your ISP can be traced. Everyone should be required to carry ID for their own protection, you know how many dead people go unclaimed in the US because they cannot be identified and their next of kin found?

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:19 AM
reply to post by Retseh

Guess you're too young to remember the poll tax riots then?

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:27 AM
reply to post by Retseh

I hear you there-theres a culture of apathy in the UK indeed.
But I know of many who would have gone on strike,protested and more if these ID cards became compulsory as we were told they would be.
Would that have made the government back down?Probably not,as the number of people blindly accepting the cards would have outnumbered the dissenters,for sure.
Most people would have accepted what the BBC/Sky told us over and over:

"ID cards are great,they stop terrorism and make it impossible to have your identity stolen!You know you all want to buy one!!!" Was the general line/lie.

Anyway,I think we should thank the aiport workers and Pilots in Manchester who refused to take part in the trial roll out of the cards,as maybe if they had all gone along with it the home sec may have carried on where the last one left off.

Something about having to carry ID at all times,under fear of imprisonment for non compliance just never sat well with me or many others.
Especially as we are supposed to live in a free country.

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:41 AM
reply to post by secretagent woooman

Hmmm,the "nothing to hide nothing to fear" arguement huh?
You know the ID card would have contained secret information about us that we would not be allowed to access right?
And that that information would be sold by the government to any banks/insurance companies etc etc for PROFIT.
And that the cards would have been used to track movements across the country,effectivley treating us all as "criminals who have not yet comitted a crime."

And why,BTW should I trust any of my private information with a government whose track record of keeping private infomation secure is at best totally incompetant,at worse criminal?

Sorry I don't subscribe to the nothing to hide nothing to fear line at all.
Hitler and Stalin both used the same technique.
Why should we put up with it now?
There once was this word called PRIVACY you know,and just because I value that word does NOT mean I have anything to hide...

op by secretagentwooman,
if you are that paranoid about being "found out" you obviously have something to hide and shouldn't be posting on a public forum where your ISP can be traced.

Hmmm,not sure I get you there-I have nothing to hide,and know full well the net is monitored,but that does not make me want an ID card when I can already prove my Identity,Thanks.

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:44 AM
reply to post by secretagent woooman

"waaa waaa waaa" nice to see the americans weigh in with their usual well thought out replies lol.
I thought I'd add lol because I know how you americans still don't get irony.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Badfuture]

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 02:57 PM
I heard this on the way home and was just like oh thank goodd.
i can garentee though that theres gonna be a huge propergander campaign to get us to get them. theyll be like "only terrorists dont have them"

posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 03:07 PM
reply to post by superdebz

That would not surprise me in the least superdebz.
According to the BBC 3,500 people have already signed up for the voluntary card.
I wonder how quicky that number will rise after what the Home Secretary said today-that they will never be compulsory for UK nationals!?
Whos goning to fork out so much cash for an ID card now they are NOT compulsory?

[edit on 30/6/2009 by Silcone Synapse]

posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:43 AM
My local MP sent an e-poll to find out the local constituants take on the ID cards and this is what he sent me as a reply.

From Tom Brake Lib Dem Sutton.
"Dear Friend

The results of my July e-poll are in…

I asked for your views on ID cards as to whether they should be compulsory, voluntary or whether we should abandon them altogether.

I am so pleased at all the responses I received from the e-poll. This is clearly an important issue for many of you so it is essential that I hear your views.

The results were mainly divided between those who thought ID cards should either be abandoned or compulsory, with most people being in favour of having ID cards abandoned altogether. The results to my July poll were as follows:

64% said ID cards should be ABANDONED

23% said ID cards should be COMPULSORY

13% said ID cards should be VOLUNTARY

It was great to see so many interesting points for each option. Firstly, when explaining why so many of you believed ID cards should be abandoned, one member of my e-group, Dan, highlighted that the ID cards would be “of no help in fighting terrorism”. Connie also agreed with this view, arguing that the ID cards scheme would just be another layer of bureaucracy that would produce no extra safeguards and just add to the creeping powers of the state.

Indeed, many drew attention to this previous point and expressed their worries about Britain moving towards a ‘Big Brother’ state. The fact that the ID card scheme would lead to government control of extensive personal data concerned a number of people in the e-group. For example, Ken said that “Until the government can demonstrate that it can hold data securely, it’s a no go.”

The cost of ID cards was also picked up in a number of responses. In my original e-poll message, I wrote that the scheme is usually said to cost £5bn but that the London School of Economics has said that the true cost will be between £10bn and £20bn. Many of you thought the scheme would be a waste of government money that should be spent in other ways – for example, on education, the NHS or tackling crime by putting more police on the street. Stephanie made the intelligent point that “surely the money can be put to better use, given the current economic climate?”

However, there were also many good points made by those who believed that we should have compulsory ID cards. The original e-poll email discussed the fact that Winston Churchill abandoned ID cards after WW2 because they were seen to be hindering the work of the police since people resented being asked to produce an identity card. However, Roland recounted his experience arguing that “I had an ID card during and after WW2, when it was compulsory, and it was no problem to anyone.”

On the contrary, 1 in 4 of you thought ID cards would not hinder, but help, the work of the police in fighting crime, terrorism and border control. Indeed, Faye said that “I think Britain would be a better, safer place with the introduction of ID cards.” A number of you drew attention to the fact that having just one single piece of ID would be an easy and effective way to prevent identity fraud. Lynn argued that “If you don't have anything to hide, why worry?”

A collection of convincing reasons were also given from those who believed ID cards should be voluntary. Matt pointed out that, “if people opt to use them for ID purposes instead of a driving license or passport, that is fine.” This group thought that the ID card scheme would be worthwhile for those who want cards for simple identification purposes, but that people should not be forced to have them as this would restrict personal freedom.

There was one last group of responses that didn’t wish to select any one of the three responses – compulsory, voluntary or abandon – but chose to support a combination of two. For example, some said that they would opt for ID cards to be voluntary for British citizens and compulsory for foreign nationals.

Taking all your replies into account, it seems that most people are against the introduction of ID cards. This is the view that I also take and I shall be putting our views into action when I am given the chance to vote on the introduction of compulsory ID cards in Parliament.

Thank you for all the responses from the July e-poll. It is great to see your opinions on ID cards and I appreciate the feedback given from everyone."

There ya go 64% said no but unfortunately you all know the UK Government will go against the people no matter what they say ( Unless its YES we want to be tagged) and probably introduce some sort of tagging or ID card anyway, even though this portion of the ID card issue is dead, wait till some other bright spark comes up with some new technology

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