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Scientists Make Radio Waves Travel Faster Than Light

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posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by TeslaandLyne
 


Well I'll ask you the same question as the other guy.

Why does the photon exist if there is a luminous aether?


Photon is an invention for the existence of Einstein's science.
There is perhaps too much involvement in modeling.
Tesla worked with the luminous aether.
The terms of his era.
Even though Lord Thompson named the electron,
Tesla worked with carriers in the ether as indicated by his experiments
that showed one way flow in ac.
You can't say the electron is doing anything in evacuated tubes or
air at millions of volts and high frequency.
His Colorado Springs experiments perhaps have never been duplicated
except perhaps if elements on his plane that may have resulted
in the free energy ufo.
His electrostatic coils, a special way of hookup, and use of disruptive
circuits push the ether back and forth and he summoned JJ Thompson
to explain the surface agitation of oil after the immersion of his
coil. The air-ether agitation has caused the oil surface to agitation.
Old radios had can covers on capacitors that would rattle with
the ac power.
I guess the photon is spotted with the electrostatic streamers
and sparks but that seems to be the only association I can think of.


ED: Tesla's ether is a insulative fluid containing electrical carriers.
Although Tesla said ether was compressible for longitudinal
waves and may conflict with the fluid finding the Hertzian wave
theory hasn't been crushed so who can tell what a response
can result as we gave up and call it nothing now.


[edit on 6/30/2009 by TeslaandLyne]




posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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time for a refresher perhaps

grab yourselves a drink/smoke/other and sit back
relax and enjoy


Google Video Link




*Edit to add, watch it full screen


[edit on 30-6-2009 by warrenb]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by TeslaandLyne
 


No. The photon is not an invention.

High speed pictures took a photo of a photon as it moved a few inches or something.

Is this nothing but an invention?

focus.aps.org...

reply to post by warrenb
 


I'm not watching an hour right now, so can you quickly explain it?

EDIT


This is kind of twisting things too much.

Space is a vacuum, it just has crap running around all over.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Lasheic

Science is not in the business of suppression of information.


That's an opinion I don't share. Science? no. People with vested interests and alternative agenda's, yes. As well as the human qualities of ego and conformism.

Cold fusion anyone?



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by squiz
 


Fusions is already being made by the French,

Where's the special interest being worked on there?



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
Why does the photon exist if there is a luminous aether?


I don't even know what how that even applies, but here's one explanation.

peswiki.com...:Volantis:Evidence_for_the_Photon_quantification_in_the_Aether_Physics_Model



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


I'm 19 minutes in almost and there's so much assumption and point of view. How much can be validated?

Have these plasma things look like stars or trees.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by squiz
 


Let me explain better.

If there was an aether necessary for light to travel through, the photon is then redundant. It's purpose is meaningless.

A normal sound wave has not particle to it. it is a vibration of energy from a disturbance.

Light needs a particle because it is NOT like a sound wave.

hence aether is not needed.

To say aether is needed means the photon is not needed.

The two are incompatible.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
Fusions is already being made by the French,

Where's the special interest being worked on there?


video.google.com...

MIT presented manipulated fraudulent data to dismiss the original fleischmann and pons findings. They then held a death to cold fusion party. They were receiving millions (billions?) in funding for hot fusion.

Of course you can't suppress forever.


[edit on 30-6-2009 by squiz]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by squiz
 


It doesn't matter. France is interested.

Since when has France listened to the world?

France never listens to interests. It is chaos. Chaos is good for research interests.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Well you must have taken all of two minutes at the most to check the link I posted. We both know you didn't.

Hey I'm not going to argue, because of reasons I mentioned earlier. I simply prefer the aether model of the warping of nothing. No absolute falsification exists, although it is presented as such. The Sagnac effect does seem to contradict Einsteins hypothesis and leans more in Favour of a dynamic entrained aether. IMHO.

Also, light does not need to be a particle either, hence the particle/wave duality.
So you point on the photons is meaningless.
oops, I'm arguing.


[edit on 30-6-2009 by squiz]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


This video is so silly.

Double sources of radio? The poles of a black hole where speed that goes faster than our relativity means with slower relativity and is burst into energy.


Normal stars can't rotate that fast? Yea it can. it's called a black hole. It's why the galaxy turns.

This is like watching people who are too lazy to grasp the complexity of the universe trying to apply small things to super massive things.


I'm going back to my original point. They are like creationists. Ignoring all the evidence that is right, and making up something by assuming the small still works on the very big.

Do I have to watch it all?



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by squiz
 


Any thing that requires something to travel through cannot be made of a particle.

It's that simple.

A photon acts like a wave and a particle

sound does not

so hoe can you equate the two?

If you think it can, then the photon is redundant and not needed.

meanwhile they actually are bending space time with light right now with Dr. Mallet and others. They actually are bending space time with CERN and other places.

I'm sorry, but this is like arguing weather or not fossils came from living things.

You can prefer all you want, but more and more evidence goes in the way of what you are against.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


You still cannot explain aether,

who's the troll? The one dodging the question and posting insults i think


I still ask the same question. if there is an aether, why is nothing slowing down, why can't sound go through it, and why don't worlds leave contrails?

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


why are you asking me about aether?


I can offer speculation, modern theories, theories of theories and the usual stuff theories are built on; that being ideas with inconclusive or lack of tangible proof. But your doing all the offering for me and IMHO we are well aware of the current ingrained theories you keep repeating.

All your counter arguments are supported by theories not physical tangible real proven fact. example. Nobody has seen nor been to a black hole. They are postulated to exist and used to explain a plethora of unexplainable things which help keep the people employed because inventing stuff pays the bills. Boy did we get in the wrong field or what.

Some things are more easily explained than some would have you believe.

Personally I believe certain channels of science are deliberately ridiculed, ignored or purposefully derailed to cover up some civilization altering events. In other words keep the population deliberately dumb and in the dark on certain matters, for what reason who knows, but the proof is in the UFO phenomena.




posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91

Any thing that requires something to travel through cannot be made of a particle.

It's that simple.

A photon acts like a wave and a particle


Your contradicting yourself right there, a particle and a wave. Also assuming we have all this light stuff worked out, or the nature of what a particle is. It's not a little billiard ball as the mind tends to picture it.
I tend to think that particles do not really exist as such, the term wave packet is sometimes used, this also may not be completely appropriate but is probably closer.



sound does not

so hoe can you equate the two?

If you think it can, then the photon is redundant and not needed.


We know perfectly well light can travel as a wave, so what's waving? it seems only when it interacts with something that it perceived as a particle.



meanwhile they actually are bending space time with light right now with Dr. Mallet and others. They actually are bending space time with CERN and other places.


Really? you don't mean that India daily thing do you? please.



I'm sorry, but this is like arguing weather or not fossils came from living things.


Rubbish, are you are trying to infer a creationist argument? typical response.



You can prefer all you want, but more and more evidence goes in the way of what you are against.


So far I have not seen it. I say prefer because I'm honest I don't know for a fact. Yet you seem to be confident of your adopted version of reality, the fact of the matter is you don't know either and you are siding with the emperor claiming he does indeed wear clothes.


[edit on 30-6-2009 by squiz]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by squiz and warrenb
 


The particle itself is the wave. I posted the picture they took of a photon. Post it a third time shall I?

You are imagining the wave as an item. It is not. It is a function for the possible location of it at one time.

Also, we do know how to manipulate space time with lasers. They do it in France, they do it here, and probably other nations will follow suit.

The French use it in Fusions, we use it in twisting space time, and other nations will be going onward.

I have offered proof. You reject it. I look at your proof, I give reasons for rejecting it, you just flat out say no without saying why.


Once again, for the umpteenth time. If there is an Aether, where are the contrails, where is the slow down due to friction, where is the dissipation and ultimate destruction of the wave, and why does the photon need to exist.

This is all I ask

We're going pages now without this being answered.



[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:34 PM
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Here is an app that shows what is going on with this experiement and the "abuse" (lol, wtf is abuse of radio waves?) of radio waves.

gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au...

Notice how it "looks" like it's moving faster? Well, that's the GROUP velocity NOT the PHASE VELOCITY. The superposition (the bottom wave) of the top waves has the largest peaks when all of the individual frequencies are in phase and basically their amplitudes, peaks, valleys, whatever you want to call them "add up".

You have to closely pay attention to the individual waves in comparison to the superposition of them. You can barely see them. The peaks of the superposition wave change with time because the individual waves have different phase velocities. The superposition isn't actually moving forward but the apparent FTL travel you see is nothing more than an artifact leftover from the superposition of the wave slipping in an out of phase with the individual frequencies and this is why information is not sent FTL.

... and how the article describes the above:



Applying a sinusoidal voltage across each electrode and displacing the phase of the voltage very slightly from one electrode to the next generates a sinusoidally-varying polarization pattern that moves along the device. By carefully adjusting the frequency of the voltage and the phase displacement the researchers say they can make the wave travel at greater than the speed of light.

However no physical quantity of charge travels faster than light speed.


Further, from the previous app's page:



This illusion of superluminal motion can only occur when the refractive index of the medium falls as the frequency of the light increases, a situation known as anomalous dispersion. If it falls rapidly enough, the group velocity — the speed at which the overall envelope of the wave seems to move — can even become negative.


If it's hard for you to understand that, then you can watch the Physics III: Waves and Vibrations lecture on Youtube from MIT Open courseware. It's 32 hours long total.

I've highlighted the section which talks about this particular phenomenon:



It's at 41:13 in. Watch about 10 or so minutes of it. He explains it rather well.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91

The particle itself is the wave. I posted the picture they took of a photon. Post it a third time shall I?


No it is not a photon it is the pulse of a photon, the wave of the aether perhaps.


A single photon cannot be directly observed, because we need photons to see of course. How do you see a single photon? you only see the effects of a single photon as your picture shows.



You are imagining the wave as an item. It is not. It is a function for the possible location of it at one time.


Well this is what aether theory is about in a sense.



Also, we do know how to manipulate space time with lasers. They do it in France, they do it here, and probably other nations will follow suit.

The French use it in Fusions, we use it in twisting space time, and other nations will be going onward.


I'd have to see the evidence to comment on that, some references perhaps? but you'll have to do better than India Daily though.




I have offered proof. You reject it. I look at your proof, I give reasons for rejecting it, you just flat out say no without saying why.


You must have a low "proof" threshold because I don't see it, was it the photo of the photon pulse? or the india daily article? You've ignored everything I have posted so far eg.. regarding the miller experiments, sagnac effect, red shift anomalies, photon propagation through the Aether etc...



Once again, for the umpteenth time. If there is an Aether, where are the contrails, where is the slow down due to friction, where is the dissipation and ultimate destruction of the wave, and why does the photon need to exist.

This is all I ask

We're going pages now without this being answered.


Because your questions make no sense. Contrails?
You must be familiar with some aether theory I've not encountered. Once again the faithful attempt to argue by creating a fictitious account of the alternative theory. A strawman I think they call it.

I think the Aether is actually the neutrino field, anyone interested can search for Aether + neutrino field and see that this concept is not totally rejected and actually can explain a lot.

Is the Higgs boson field any different? is space time any different? dark matter? zero point field? it seems we cannot avoid this invisible intangible stuff.
But we no for sure about the neutrino's existence. Perhaps language and definitions are standing in the way. But no doubt something, most likely many things are missing from the picture.

How about you explain how mass can warp empty space? The sagnac effect?
Halton Arps red shift anomalies? that would be good for starters.
When you do I'll gladly come back to discuss it with you, but for now I'll return to my preference of not attempting to argue with the faithful.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by squiz]



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