Scientists Make Radio Waves Travel Faster Than Light , page 7
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reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:12 PM by Gorman91
reply to post by littlebunny


Not really that odd. Nobody talked about black holes when they first thought about them except a round table of thinkers. Only now do we discuss it in depth because we've been so focussed on them for so many experiments.

give it another 20 years, when we have thoroughly banged out most of what can be learned of black holes and related subjects, and science will find a new interesting thing.


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:30 PM by Lasheic
reply to post by mnemeth1



I tend to disagree. Common sense logic tells us


Stop.

Reality has shown time and time again to be counter to common sense. To paraphrase Franklin; Sense is rarely common, and what is common usually holds little resemblance to sense.


By this point I hope people realize that 99.9% of what mainstream cosmologists are telling you is a complete joke.


It's been my experience that 99.9% of people who claim that mainstream science (either as a whole, or in specific fields) have absolutely no clue what they're talking about, nor do they understand the actual sciences they're criticizing. The very few .1% force paradigm shifts by weight of evidence, and no paradigm shift that I am aware of has ever been enacted by a scientific illiterate critic of science. For instance, those who criticize Evolution are typically the most woefully ignorant of what the theory actually says or entails. Even those who claim to know and accept evolution are generally woefully ignorant of it - claiming common sense which is a cobble-together of misconceptions, popular memes, and really a most basic framework that vaguely resembles the actual theory.

Many think that Darwin came up with theory of evolution, when really it was mostly there at least a thousand years before his time... and had been known to exist since humans first started selectively breeding animals... even Aristotle and Ibn Al-Haytham dabbled in trying to explain it.

Darwin just identified natural selection as the prime shaper of evolution's outcomes and tied everything together in a workable theory.

Sorry Gorman91, Linneas (who I assume you're referring to) didn't come up with Evolution - though he did come up with a wonderful starter system for cataloging life via taxonomy... though it has been replaced with cladistics, which hasn't really filtered down to popular thought yet.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Lasheic]


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:42 PM by Gorman91
reply to post by Lasheic


Whatever. Just so long this guy gets the point that he's wrong.


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:44 PM by Gorman91
reply to post by fapython


Not at all. I here about both equally.

The point is that you can say plenty of stuff, but relativity is true.

Einstein couldn't explain the bird sip machine (the thing that homer used in the simpsons)

Why should Tesla be any different.

The inability to understand something does not forsake the evidence that it is real.

Tesla invented great stuff, but how he viewed the universe is simply wrong on many accords. Same with Einstein
Both men are from a different era. Both men were wrong on many things. Both had their errors.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:03 PM by awakening1
I have a theory that I've been putting together for a while. I will not back it up with links and quotes, because this has been brewing in my head for years, and everything I rread and hear only backs this up. I guess for you true "scientists" I should back up and tell you that I do believe in a higher power, whatever you choose to call "Him". Honestly, the force, Allah, God, intelligent design, we are ALL talking about the same thing, and I believe without this premise, science will never truly know the truth. Maybe as I explain this theory, my reason for this belief will make more sense.

Ok, there is only ONE constant in the universe(and beyond), everything is energy, and it never increases or decreases, it only changes form. That's it, but think about it. We know that the smallest particles we have "seen" are vibrating. Everything, every molecule in the universe is vibrating. Spiritual leaders thoughout time have taught/told us to raise our vibrational energy. Energy = vibrations. Evolution and reincarnaton are all tied to energy vibrations.

I recently heard of a boy who knows of his past life, as a WWII pilot. He remembers talking to God and making the choice to return for another life. His life force has remarkable memory, and his energy changed from one physical life to spiritual and back.
I believe the reason for life on this planet is to learn, and because of our physical exsistence, we can learn a lot of things faster, and in the energy form of our "spirit' time moves slower (relative to our known time) ie...God made the world in seven days according to the bible, but in science, relative to our time frame, we know it took several millenium.

Evolution even works in this theory. As we are energy beings, and everything is energy, each time we are destroyed in a physical sense, our energy evolves, and the next physical form we take is based on our new vibrational energy. (I know this sounds weird, but yes, we were all mmade from the evolution of the basic building blocks of the universe)
We think of evolution only in "living" life forms, but basic science tells us that the creation of all things depends on the bonds of atoms in different forms (different vibrational energies binding atoms differently and creating different elements). All of this made possible by "The Force" or God if you will. Yes, we can create or destroy elements in the lab, but that is because Humans ARE more evolved and have evolved just enought thus far to be able to control a few basic commands in nature. My only other comment about this was that Allah told us that we can move mountains with our mind, if only we had faith ( believed) in the power within us (the God power). No, this is not a quote, so don't shoot me.


Ok, now let's look into multiple dimentions. This again is nothing more than a different vibrational level. I hate to use this reference, but like the bug alien in The X Files. You could only see it in a certain light, because it was vibrating so fast.

I have several other ways to explain how the "vibrational energy universal theory of everything" works with every theory ever proposed, and scientific facts as well, but to the point of this thread it also explains how these radio waves can move faster than the particles of light (which to this point is the fastest thing we can "measure", and in our "scientific" world, if it cannot be measured it does not exist.) You have to be able to blend both thoughts, faith and science, if we ever want to evolve any further.
The radio wave is like an ocean wave, it is not the particles, but the energy that makes a wave. This is not to say that believing blindly will solve everything. Important to note: God is "PURE" science, we just have not evolved enough yet to understand it. I will say it...God and science are one. When you accept this, Anything truly is possible, one only proves the other.

running out of space, so I will let you think about this for now.


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:04 PM by Lasheic
reply to post by Gorman91


I know man, I understand. I'm not trying to harsh on your error, just extrapolating a bit.

Unfortunately, I doubt he'll admit his errors. His type rarely do. Even those who admit their errors can rarely ever be brought to understand that it doesn't matter if your supposed hypothesis actually DOES explain some particular phenomena better - if it doesn't match all of the evidence, then it's wrong. That in itself is fine. We're wrong about everything to a degree, because if we weren't - science would have no purpose. So it becomes a matter of weight of evidence. Unless your theory is BETTER than the established one, it won't replace an existing theory which we DO know works to known degrees of certainty.

For instance, we know Einstein's theories of relativity are wrong - because they thus far cannot be reconciled with quantum mechanics. We know Newtonian Mechanics are wrong, because they can't account for things that Einstein's Relativity does. Did Relativity negate Newtonian mechanics? Did Quantum Mechanics negate Newtonian Mechanics or Relativity? No... because all three work VERY well within their respective limitations. Yet we know all of them are wrong to certain degrees. Do we scrap them all and start from scratch? No... because they DO work.

And yet... he wants to thumb his nose at science and stop all the progress we've made because he doesn't understand it - and replace the entire cosmological model with "aether" which cannot even be substantiated to even exist? Wat?

I'll try to read up on it, but from a first impression I get the feeling that the "aether" is a type of fluid, or has fluid-like properties. I.E. - the "waters" of the "deep". Though that might just be a Pavlovian response to what I typically run into when people criticize science - religion, or religious based ideas. So I'll stop there until I read more.



reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:07 PM by squiz
The Michelson Morley experiment was not a null result as is often repeated as gospel. the result was not what was expected of a static aether. The calculations were still flawed apparently although. But the result was never zero.

Miller went much further and is often left out of the argument, his experiments implied an entrained aether, and all of them over more than thirty years gave results indicating absolute motion. Einstein claimed these discrepancies were the result of thermal effects, Miller himself did show that temperature was a factor as indicated by his experiments and went to great lengths to insulate and account for these factors. Still the results where never nill, and consistently gave results.

He was betrayed by his own student in what looks like an effort to sweep the results under the carpet, because it would refute Einsteins theory as even Einstein himself admitted. The so called refutation came after Millers death of course, using the discrepancy of thermal effects as proof. Which Ironically Miller was the first to notice and bring to light.

Some think it was Miller who robbed Einstein of his Nobel prize for relativity.

Sagnac is another one to research in this regard, it seems adhocs where put in place by the Einsteinian priests to account for the Sagnac effect. More suggestion to a dynamic aether. Einstein also brushed off the results and did not fully address the problem.

Another big blunder in science we still haven't recovered from.

Psychology experiments have shown that the more something is repeated the more it is regarded as fact. Theoretical science is plagued with this.

And when Einstein achieved "rock star" status this psychological condition went into full effect, questioning would be siding with an inferior intellect!

The Emperor has no clothes!!! (seems appropriate).

Relativity is not an invention of Einstein. Lorentz published his relativity paper a year before Einstein I think. And all the proclaimed proof Einsteinium relativity stands equally true for Lorentzian relativity which does not have a speed of light limit or space time.

I'm not saying Lorentzian relativity is absolutely true either, I'm just giving an example of how perceptions are at play here.

Einstein theory as a theory of gravity does not explain gravity at all, it's a circular argument that uses gravity to explain itself! The rubber sheet analogy demonstrates this.

Now we have an entire cosmology built on something we don't understand and most probably misunderstand. Hence dark matter, black holes, space time included etc...

And a quantum theory that is incompatible with cosmological theory.

The problem is escalating in evidence, all the probes like pioneer, voyager etc.. have displayed gravitational anomalies. We now now that the dwarf galaxies orbiting the milky way are not behaving according to standard model.

I'm tired of arguing the points with the true believers, that is why I don't enter the religious argument much because it's the same thing. People get a picture of the world as they see it and cling to it for life or death

Einstein was a great thinker no doubt, He kicked off quantum science with the photo electric effect. But he was not a God!

Haven't you noticed, every time that something comes along that puts some doubt on Einsteins theory, it is quickly claimed even by the author of the paper to not be. Why? because his career and reputation would be at stake, his funding jeopardized.

Such FAITH we have in the peer review system.

Oh, and I've never heard any reasonable explanation for the redshift anomalies cataloged by Halton Arp. What is apparent though is a fraudulent attempt to dismiss them, and the persecution and banning of Arp from having telescope time in the US!

It clearly refutes the expanding universe assumptions, and in turn the big bang.

Falsification counts for nothing in mainstream cosmology other wise the big bang theory would be old news, and go down in history with the countless other explanations of things we can't know.


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:33 PM by Lasheic
reply to post by fapython


Tesla absolutely was a genius, there is no debate there from me. However, you have to be VERY careful when reading material about him because there is so much misinformation and fiction surrounding him that separating the man from the myth becomes quite laborious at times.


An extraterrestrial from Venus, Tesla was a superhuman inventor who had the uncanny ability to visualize the working of machines in his head. Tesla: the prodigal genius, the forgotten genius, the sorcerer, the wizard, the man out of time.


An example of the fluff and mythology which has surrounded the historical Tesla given at this site. I've encountered quite a few posters even here who believe that Tesla really was an extraterrestrial, or a hybrid. However, these are based in the ludicrous stories of Arthur Matthews (who really was a lab assistant to Tesla) in his book The Wall of Light

It's basically a Christian stroke fantasy of early Christian astronaut missionaries to other planets, such as Venus which he describes as a green and lush planet, returning to set humanity "back on the right track". There is no real science in the book at all - and even by sci-fi standards of the day it's rather poor. For instance, US and Russian probes had already visited Venus a couple years before he published the book - and the data they sent back revealed a harsh super-heated world under an oppressive toxic atmosphere. It wasn't the image of "Eden" that Matthews described. Also, considering the pressures of that atmosphere, the way he described exiting and entering the spaceship would have liquefied the occupants through the hatch before it was even really open via explosive decompression... not to mention turn the spaceship itself into a shrapnel bomb.

Remember that scene from Alien Resurrection where Ripley shot a hole in the window and it sucked the hybrid alien out? Kinda like that, but far quicker and more violent.


So... yeah... I've become wary of people who like to drop Tesla's name in an attempt to discredit other scientists or justify fringe pseudosciences. When you get down to it... many of them can't separate the man from the myth, and when you get down to it - those who do know the origins of some of those myths believe some pretty stupid things.

Jus sayin', be careful how you research... especially in regards to Tesla.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Lasheic]


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:53 PM by mf_luder
reply to post by warrenb


Maybe they could incorporate this with SETI?

Aim that bad-boy at the nearby stars and get to calling out to our potential neighbors.


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 09:02 PM by Lasheic
reply to post by squiz


Nobody is pushing theories under the rug because they conflict with Einstein's "dogma". Science is not in the business of suppression of information. Einstein's theory has endured because it's a good and workable theory. It's not perfect, but it's it makes workable predictions and it conflicts the least with what we observe in reality.

Reality... that's the key word. Thomas Paine once argued that no religious dogma in all of the world's history can account for the creation better than the actual creation itself can. The creation simply is, and unlike the will or words of men - does not rely on man to exist or be published. This applies to science as well. No matter what theories we formulate - if they do not conform to reality, then they will not work... and that skizm between reality and the ideas of men will be readily apparent. This is why science relies on explanations which promote accurate predictions, but does not rely apologetics.

Science lauds and heralds those who come up with the most accurate explanations for observations. Nobody is going to cower "in the shadows of the greats" for the purpose of propping up a lie which ultimately cannot hold against reality. They're a vicious and critical lot who want nothing more than to tear your theory to shreds - including established theories, because to replace or refine a theory earns you recognition and funding, and maybe even a place in history. Pseudoscientists often claim this is persecution against them - but it happens to ALL researchers and scientists, and the brutal peer review process is only the beginning. It's not persecution and close-mindedness. It's a form of insurance. Insurance that only those theories which are most closely in line with the evidence, with reality, will eventually prevail.

And technological society is a monument to this progress. We haven't gotten this far by suppressing knowledge or free thought.


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 09:42 PM by Gorman91
reply to post by TeslaandLyne


Well I'll ask you the same question as the other guy.

Why does the photon exist if there is a luminous aether?


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 09:56 PM by Gorman91
reply to post by warrenb


The inability to answer a question does not mean the poser of the question is ignorant.

In fact, how does an unanswered question make the poser of the question ignorant?

The inability to answer the question, more so, makes the target person look ignorant.



Aether is something with so many holes in it, and which its supporters seem so reluctant to answer for.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Gorman91]


reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 10:01 PM by badmedia
Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by mnemeth1


yes the pulsar thing is a bit of a stretch

glad you chimed in



Not exactly. While it may be a stretch that they are sending messages and such, they could easily be used in navigation. I learned this from playing flight simulator.

There are towers that airplanes use for navigation. These towers send off radio waves that beep in morse code. And from that, you can use the signal to use it as a way of directing the plane towards the tower. So you tune in the frequency of the tower, and when you get the signal it will show you the direction to go.

I mostly use them when the weather is bad and you can't see anything.

So it's possible you could use them in such a manner. Of course, there is a question of why you would need them in space. Which would bring in the subject of triangulation. If you used multiple pulsars, you could then use the strength of the signals to get a position in the galaxy. And then you can turn it into a galactic GPS system. No maintenance needed!

So, the rate of the pulses would be the identifier, the strength of the signal would tell you distance, and the direction of the signal would give you position. You would of course need to know the position and movement of the pulsars and such. But I'd say they are all things which are completely possible.

Could still call it GPS too, just Global into Galactic.


[edit on 6/30/2009 by badmedia]
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