Obama Declares Coup "Not Legal" Amid Uncertainty

reply to post by Connector


Yea I realize I posted the same article. I wrote my post in haste, and was just trying to reference the point in the article that Honduras' government has been active in the drug trade.

The article after that is what I was trying to get at. That while people are protesting, there are many who support the "coup".

reply to post by aorAki

I guess it brings out all the haters though, who still seem unhappy with having an african-american president.

Actually the jury is still out on the American part of the African-American President and there still are a couple cases pending on that issue. In fact a very serious one out of New Jersey where Congress is being sued for not doing it's duty in vetting Obama's citizenship to Constitutional Standards that the Federal Judge pressing the case forward says "Is a very serious" matter and is urging all named parties in the Congress and the President to make sure they have top notch legal representation and to not take it as a joke because he finds the allegations very "Credible".

I would further like to add the people that didn't like George Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush Sr., Ronald Regan, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson and John F. Kennedy did not dislike them because they were white.

So there are always some who choose to be prejudice the person most prejudice is the one who accuses someone else of being so without cause.

I just named every President in my lifetime and I didn't like any of them and it sure wasn't because they were black, and I don't like Obama either and it sure isn't because he is black...

I am trying to like you though, but would appreciate you more if you weren't such a racist!

Of course Obama doesn't like it! He risks the exact same fate if he keeps turning his back on us!

FYI for those who don't know the story or are just listening to bits and pieces.

This is a story about a President at the limit of his term who did illegal actions to attempt to become a dictator like Hugo Chavez... point blank, and the Honduran Congress, Supreme Court, and Attorney General followed the Honduran Constitution.

online.wsj.com...

That Mr. Zelaya acted as if he were above the law, there is no doubt. While Honduran law allows for a constitutional rewrite, the power to open that door does not lie with the president. A constituent assembly can only be called through a national referendum approved by its Congress.

But Mr. Zelaya declared the vote on his own and had Mr. Chávez ship him the necessary ballots from Venezuela. The Supreme Court ruled his referendum unconstitutional, and it instructed the military not to carry out the logistics of the vote as it normally would do.

The top military commander, Gen. Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, told the president that he would have to comply. Mr. Zelaya promptly fired him. The Supreme Court ordered him reinstated. Mr. Zelaya refused.

Calculating that some critical mass of Hondurans would take his side, the president decided he would run the referendum himself. So on Thursday he led a mob that broke into the military installation where the ballots from Venezuela were being stored and then had his supporters distribute them in defiance of the Supreme Court's order. The attorney general had already made clear that the referendum was illegal, and he further announced that he would prosecute anyone involved in carrying it out. Yesterday, Mr. Zelaya was arrested by the military and is now in exile in Costa Rica.

It remains to be seen what Mr. Zelaya's next move will be. It's not surprising that chavistas throughout the region are claiming that he was victim of a military coup. They want to hide the fact that the military was acting on a court order to defend the rule of law and the constitution, and that the Congress asserted itself for that purpose, too.

Mrs. Clinton has piled on as well. Yesterday she accused Honduras of violating "the precepts of the Interamerican Democratic Charter" and said it "should be condemned by all." Fidel Castro did just that. Mr. Chávez pledged to overthrow the new government.

Honduras is fighting back by strictly following the constitution. The Honduran Congress met in emergency session yesterday and designated its president as the interim executive as stipulated in Honduran law. It also said that presidential elections set for November will go forward. The Supreme Court later said that the military acted on its orders. It also said that when Mr. Zelaya realized that he was going to be prosecuted for his illegal behavior, he agreed to an offer to resign in exchange for safe passage out of the country. Mr. Zelaya denies it.
Many Hondurans are going to be celebrating Mr. Zelaya's foreign excursion. Street protests against his heavy-handed tactics had already begun last week. On Friday a large number of military reservists took their turn. "We won't go backwards," one sign said. "We want to live in peace, freedom and development."

Besides opposition from the Congress, the Supreme Court, the electoral tribunal and the attorney general, the president had also become persona non grata with the Catholic Church and numerous evangelical church leaders. On Thursday evening his own party in Congress sponsored a resolution to investigate whether he is mentally unfit to remain in office.

For Hondurans who still remember military dictatorship, Mr. Zelaya also has another strike against him: He keeps rotten company. Earlier this month he hosted an OAS general assembly and led the effort, along side OAS Secretary General José Miguel Insulza, to bring Cuba back into the supposedly democratic organization.

The OAS response is no surprise. Former Argentine Ambassador to the U.N. Emilio Cárdenas told me on Saturday that he was concerned that "the OAS under Insulza has not taken seriously the so-called 'democratic charter.' It seems to believe that only military 'coups' can challenge democracy. The truth is that democracy can be challenged from within, as the experiences of Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and now Honduras, prove." A less-kind interpretation of Mr. Insulza's judgment is that he doesn't mind the Chávez-style coup.

The struggle against chavismo has never been about left-right politics. It is about defending the independence of institutions that keep presidents from becoming dictators. This crisis clearly delineates the problem. In failing to come to the aid of checks and balances, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Insulza expose their true colors.

www.freerepublic.com...

There was NO "Coup" in Honduras; The Constitution was Upheld
June 29 2009 | vanity

Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 10:15:50 AM by Para-Ord.45

Plenty of referral posts to articles claiming a military "coup" here in FR. All are propaganda Big Lies.

Posting this to be clear on what the Honduran Congress did, their Supreme Court, Attorney General and the Honduran Constitution (from various sources):

- Zelaya was violating his country’s constitution with his referendum that would have, Chavez-style, repealed term limits on the presidency. The Honduras Supreme Court ruled the referendum illegal, and the military refused to distribute the ballots. Instead of backing down, Zelaya fired the head of the military, which precipitated the ouster.

- Zelaya declared the vote on his own and had Mr. Chávez ship him the necessary ballots from Venezuela. The Supreme Court ruled his referendum unconstitutional, and it instructed the military not to carry out the logistics of the vote as it normally would do.

The top military commander, Gen. Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, told the president that he would have to comply. Mr. Zelaya promptly fired him. The Supreme Court ordered him reinstated. Mr. Zelaya refused.

Calculating that some critical mass of Hondurans would take his side, the president decided he would run the referendum himself. So on Thursday he led a mob that broke into the military installation where the ballots from Venezuela were being stored and then had his supporters distribute them in defiance of the Supreme Court's order.

The attorney general had already made clear that the referendum was illegal, and he further announced that he would prosecute anyone involved in carrying it out.

- HONDURAN CONSTITUTION:

Title VII, with two chapters, outlines the process of amending the constitution and sets forth the principle of constitutional inviolability. The constitution may be amended by the National Congress after a two-thirds vote of all its members in two consecutive regular annual sessions. However, several constitutional provisions may not be amended. These consist of the amendment process itself, as well as provisions covering the form of government, national territory, and several articles covering the presidency, including term of office and prohibition from reelection.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by infolurker]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
[

I am trying to like you though, but would appreciate you more if you weren't such a racist!

You could read it like that, or you could look at the majority of the replies by people, cross-reference with other posts and come to the conclusion I have.

But that's fine.

I understand what you are saying in the rest of your post and more-or-less agree with it.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
[

I am trying to like you though, but would appreciate you more if you weren't such a racist!

You could read it like that, or you could look at the majority of the replies by people, cross-reference with other posts and come to the conclusion I have.

But that's fine.

I understand what you are saying in the rest of your post and more-or-less agree with it.

Great news I never met a doggie I didn't like is that yours in the Avatar?

America really is so intergrated now my friend, I live in Miami where Latins and Blacks both outnumber White/Anglos in fact of 542 people with numbers stored in my cell phone 3 of them are White and of them doesn't live in Miami...I think it's just the two of us here...I love it here though and the people...the truth of the matter is people hate being rejected and none of us like to think it's got a thing to do with our sparkling personalities but in reality it almost always does!

Thanks friend.

A freind at work and i chatted a little abouthis hours ago..HE is form mexico, watches spanish news, adn asked me abuot The president of Honduras..i asked him, why did the tropps do that? My friends answer... corrpution, as usual..
So, jsut like that..obama condoens it all. Suppose the preident was involved in corruption...how can obama condone that? Unless he himself is corrupt. I mean damn, when a new guy takes office, how does obama know..maybe he is a cool guy with ltos of good politics on his mind! maybe not, but at leat keepingg an open mind rather than jsut drawing conclusions..

1. When is a Coup "Legal" .. Generally speaking, it's always treasonous, hence it being a coup?

2. What law from fairy tale land is Obama pointing at? It's illegal in .... an American sense.. or a Honduras sense?

3. WTF .. who does this POS think he his, telling sovereign nations what is and is not legal / moral by US Standards? Shame on you Obama.

I thought he wasn't supposed to be like Bush? I thought we wouldn't but into other peoples lives? So wrong, I suppose..

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
.the truth of the matter is people hate being rejected and none of us like to think it's got a thing to do with our sparkling personalities but in reality it almost always does!

Thanks friend.

Yes, I hear you there and I concur.


That dog is our lovely eight year old ridgeback x rottweiller: Lucy.

One of four dog we have( and a few other furry/scaly friends too!).

Obama is an idiot pure and simple. I got the word out leading up to the election about the foolishness of voting him into office. Yes, i voted McCain but that was purely because nobody else could win. We have essentially a 1 party ballot that is just separated by name. I did do my part though and vote for the lesser evil!

He's fooling you.

en.wikipedia.org...
Manuel Zelaya : friend of Chavez, wanted to legalize drugs, stuff like that. CIA was there, same as they were here :

The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état was a covert operation organized by the United States Central Intelligence Agency

and here :
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED

Google Video Link

So now we wait 55 years and in 2064 we see a similar news title.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by kozmo

 

I'm gonna ask again, is it bad that we are not going to send them our tax money? Apparently it is. That's what the people in this thread are saying.

The reason that Obama said that it was an illegal ousting is to make it possible for us to cut off money we send to that country.

Wealthy American Christians have been there from the early 80s and on rebuilding that country. Feeding the starving kids, Building them schools and churches ever since the fight against the communist ended.

Obama and the U.N. just sided with the communist going against every U.S. presidents policy for the last century, Not the free Democratic people that we have been helping for decades.

While good Americans have been helping Hondurans have a better life more lives have been saved than you could ever imagine.

Obama is against the legal replacement of a wannabe dictator because he is One Himself.

Obama just painted a HUGE bullseye on himself from many powerful Americans.

Obama is evil and we must unite against him.

Well that's just great of you Obama! Not only are you using the incorrect phrase (coup vs. what he should use: coup d'etat), you're now dictating the laws of the world? Ohhhhhhh I get now.

It's only gonna take one country to get REALLY pissed off at Obama's "views" on a foreign situation where we are not involved in the least for something to happen.

America has become good at two things at this point: taking away the rights of it's citizens systematically and sticking our nose where it doesn't belong.

People - you seem to be missing something - this is about Honduras, not US domestic politics

And as I pointed out earlier, it's not just Obama speaking out against this coup (and that is what it is, like Zelaya or not - I don't particularly), it is every leader of every country in the Western Hemisphere

reply to post by xmotex


So, this is about Honduras...then who really cares what all these leaders are saying? Most of them are dictators, and I don't trust them.

Leaders support their political agendas. People need to stop following the media spin and what "leaders" say. The Honduras people for the most part don't want Zelaya back. Hondurans are frustrated at the lies coming out of CNN.

If Zelaya does get back into power, expect large protests/riots.

reply to post by xmotex


There really is no point. All the baseless emotional ranting is out of control on this thread.

We really need to set an age limit on ats.

The real problem here is the slanting of news media. What happened in Honduras was not a coup, it was more like impeachment! The U.N. is a collection of manipulative vipers. Oil for food program anyone? Obama is encouraging the falsehood and that says a lot about his true character!

reply to post by hangedman13



And on the flipside, it means that the news media could be slanting all information, not just the sections you want slanted. So that means all the information you used against obama is slanted also. Can't have it both ways.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Except that you do not need to watch the news to see the results of actions taken. Not to mention you say certain words your brain makes a connection. I say coup what is the first thing you think??? But by a literal definition the events in Honduras was not a coup. The typical American is an ignorant creature, who would not look any further then what was in front of them if they even knew what the word meant! How is that for having it both ways?