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Obama Declares Coup "Not Legal" Amid Uncertainty

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posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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Obama was making a statement that will affect America's diplomatic relations with Honduras. It is not just a matter of foreign aid, although that's part of it.

I need to know more before I make a judgment, but I assume those who staged the coup are hostile to the United States. That is usually the reason for diplomatic relations to be cut off.

This cut-off will affect the new government negatively, as much of the western world will probably follow suit.

The president undoubtedly has more information about the coup and its effects on Honduras than we do.

IMO this thread is just another excuse to find fault with everything the president says or does. Some will object to anything that is not complete isolationism and others will object to his power on the world stage, assuming that he will abuse it.

I myself am waiting to know more of the details. I may agree with the president or I may disagree, but I will not assign a sinister motive to his actions without further evidence.




posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
So your assuming that because the President made an opinion saving us taxpayer money that he now will circumvent our constitution and try and run for a third term?



You have already been taken to task regarding this foolishness of "Opinion". As the leader of the free world, the President has neither the luxury nor the freedom of fully-expressed opinion. He is entitled to his opinion in private, with his wife, his advisors, his freinds and family. But when the President speaks publicly he is espousing policy.

Take what Ahmadinejad has said regarding Israel. It was his opinion as he has stated over and over and NOT the policy of Iran. Sadly for him, this is not how the rest of the world saw it nor how they have reacted to it.

Certainly we all have freedom of speech, expression and opinion. But with that freedom comes great responsibility. Each person should use their brain and understand that words have greater cause and effect. The more authority a person holds, the greater the meaning of their words. Just as a simple man may not shout "Fire" in a crowded theater, neither should the President of the US and leader of the free world utter such opinion to undermine our foreign policiy strategies in public.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I love how you are equating a side effect , or POSSIBLE, side effect as justification for something that Obama is clearly in the wrong on, and should have NEVER dipped his silver tongue in to.

Its quite clear to most people that supporting a man who violates his countries election process, all the while keeping his trap shut when another country is fighting to oust an archaic draconian regime that oppresses its countrymen and women, to the extent of killing them in the streets, effectively keeping them in the dark ages and keeping the hobbles on freedom, is wrong.

Im not sure how much clearer that can be made for you.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by lpowell0627
 


Oh life would be simple if all diplomatic problems were all equal and the same. But they are all completely different volatile animals that require completely different comments and considerations. Your comparing apples and oranges.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


Foreign aid? Once again I'm tired of people acting like USA is a huge foreign aid contributor and they give their money away to the rest of the world.

First, they gave less then $50 million to Honduras for this fiscal year. And a lot of that went towards them purchasing US arms.

Second, the USA gives less of its money away (as a percentage of national income) then most of the other developed nations.

Third, the vast majority of USA foreign aid goes to Israel and Egypt (billions of dollars). Used primarily for weapons and war.

USA gives when it supports their current strategy.


The real reason Obama is doing this is likely because of Chavez...and the Venezuelan oil industry. Chavez has always hated the USA, and has even accused them of orchestrating this "coup". Chavez was allies with Zelaya and with him gone he loses some of his clout in the region. He wants to keep his power...and Obama will help him do so.

This was not a coup by the way. It is legally outlined in the Honduras constitution. It was done after Zelaya ordered the military to perform illegal actions, and with the support of Honduras' supreme court and congress. It was done to stop the president from turning Honduras into a dictatorship.

USA foreign policy has never really been about right or wrong...but about "what will I get out of it".



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Obama once again is clueless...It seems every quote out of this mans mouth is either ripped off a dead ex-president, quote he's being told to say in response to media, or something utterly ridiculous such as this...Everyone knows that this "Coup" was by the people. It should stand as the ex-president was not a man of any caliber and very "hugo chavez-like". Obama drops the ball again by taking the wrong stance. I honestly hope if the country is destroyed by 2012 that Obama is not re-ellected...Too much, too little thought, too fast. He's like a faster version of Bush but with adoring fans as opposed to pitchfork and torch-carrying citizens.

This was wrong on his part. He is not representing the people at all- I doubt anyone will trance on free liberty. Same thing with the Iran protests...This man just leaves me



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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Guess the UN is clueless as well.......

UN condemns Honduran military coup


External source


The United Nations General Assembly on Tuesday condemned the ouster of Honduran President Manuel Zelaya and called for his immediate return to office.





Meanwhile Tuesday in the Honduran capital, Tegucigalpa, soldiers and police set up a chain-link fence before dawn to seal off the area in front of the presidential palace, where thousands of protesters clashed with riot police the day before. At one point on Monday, police fired several canisters of tear gas to keep the crowd back from the building. At least 38 people were reportedly detained, while a congresswoman reported seeing 30 people injured in a single hospital following the violence.


Ya this was a coup by the people.....or at least the ones in uniforms it seems so far.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by Connector
 


Yea...there is a minority of Zelaya supporters...who are protesting.

I've seen protests in America against a lot of weird things. Just because there is a protest doesn't mean it represents all the people of a country.

There were also people protesting what Zelaya was doing before he was thrown out of power...but we'll just ignore that.

Let the media swing begin.

Let me add some relevant material:

UN condemns Honduran military coup
...Chavez probably wants this guy in power because of drug money.

Many in US Honduran community hold rallies to support the ouster of President Manuel Zelaya




[edit on 30-6-2009 by Nickmare]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
This was hardly a 'violent' regime change. In fact no one was killed. They simply put the former President of Hondurus on a plane to Costa Rica and said don't come back.

What was illegal was the former President of Hondurus not abiding by a Hondurun Supreme Court Ruling days before clearly stating it was against the Constitution of the Country for the President to include a Non-Binding Ballot resolution on midterm election Ballots to gauge support for creating an amendment to the Constitution of Hondurus allowing the President to have more than one term in the office of President. The Honduran Constitution only allows for one term only for the President.

Even after the Supreme Court of Hondurus ruled that the President could not put it to the people of the nation as a Non-Binding Referendum on the Ballots he went a. and had it put on the Ballots anyway.

The Ballots which were to be distributed on Monday were rounded up along with the now former President and all put on a one way plane to Costa Rica which by the way has more species of flora and fauna than any other country in the world a first class symphony and opera and no standing army, the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans easily accessed in one days driving and Volcanoes and sent him there where he can be President for life in his own mind in a very nice place, instead of trying to set himself up for President for Life in Hondurus like Castro has done in Cuba, Chavez is doing in Venezualla and people like Saddam Hussein were in Iraq.

Not a shot was fired, no one was hurt or killed, most of all the Honduran Constitution which unlike our Supreme Court and our Constitution, the Hondurans evidently take their Supreme Court and Constitution very seriously. I bet they wouldn't shy away from making an elected President show his birthcertificate.

The Honduran people did the right thing, they got rid of a would be dictator who himself was acting illegally.

Poor Obama has to be seeing the writing on the wall long about now. The Honduran President removed, the people in Iran rioting over election results, it just isn't a good time to be an unpopular President in the world Mr. Soreto, if I were you I would straighten up and take notice and fly straight!



This is excatally what happened ...I heard it on talk radio...an American called from there and said that is what happened. And Obama sided with the guy who wanted to change the constitution in his favor....and the other local Dictators.... wtf ?? At least we know where to take our poiticians when we clean out the filth.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Apparently , the president of brazil Lula , has the same opinion as Obama. I just saw on TV. He said how barbarious it was to take a president off the chair when this is supposed to be a "democracy".

Of course he never mentioned that the honduran president was actually out to hurt his country´s Constitution , and that the coup was a legal action approved by congress.


It is obvious they will badmouth these kind of movements for freedom. Because if what really happenned there gets publicized to the world , it might wake some up to the fact that politicians are merely working for the people , and they are also people that can and WILL be overthrown if they cannot follow their countries' rules.


So imagine Obama supporting that coup , when the number of constitutionalists is on the rise , and he has been trying so hard to undermine the US Constitution with those new garbage pieces of legislation (voluntary mandatory service? lol).

Obama's thoughts:
"I must watch out ! People have to think it is wrong to go against others that usurp Constitutions! Or else I might be next!"



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Thanks for adding all of that -- which perfectly illustrates the point I was trying to make. In the scheme of things, Honduras is a very small player in the world scene. So goes Chavez, so goes Honduras. So you need really to only deal with Venezuela.

With Iran, there is so much more at stake. Given that the last correspondence between Obama and Iran consisted of Obama saying : 'I'm willing to talk and recognize your need for nuclear power..." And Iran retorting with: "Well, that's not enough...."

I would have thought that at the very least, when all heck broke loose in Iran, Obama could have used the unrest as a levy against supporting their desire for nuclear power. I mean, who wants a country having recognized nuclear power when they are willing to bludgen their own people? If they can't handle batons and guns appropriately, what hope is there when the weapons simply get bigger?

Granting Iran permission in the eyes of the world to build peaceful nuclear power plants is a HUGE bargaining chip -- and frankly it leaves me to wonder why this chip is not being played, so to speak.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Roufas
 


So, the President of Honduras was voted out of office by congress, and removed by the military. He wasn't shot, mutilated, beaten, harmed, threatened, or kidnapped. He was removed from office. The next day he attended a meeting so we all know he's fine.

To this, not more than 12 hours after the coup, Obama replies: "This is illegal! We demand that he be restored to power immediately! He is the legitimate President! We recognize only him as the leader of Honduras...!" Blah, blah, blah.

Meanwhile, we watch LIVE VIDEO of people being beaten, shot, and murdered in Iran. Citizens of Iran. Iran then steps it up and arrests a number of British Embassy Workers. Iran's current leaders declare "Death to the UK, Israel and U.S.!" And to this Obama replies, at least 72 hours later:

"We are watching you."

HUH????



[edit on 30-6-2009 by lpowell0627]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Great posts here to bring the truth to light, so we can stop this communist movement(Obama waving Red flag and sickle).


If you can't see what is really going on refuse to listen to us , No one can help You. Period!


This is not my opinion; It is Fact!


Stop assuming and dismissing as just mere opinions.

Okay, I am going back now to catch up to the latest M Jackson news!






posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
Listen, it's all about the money. The money (YOUR MONEY) that we won't be sending there because we don't like what they did to whoever.

This is bad? It's bad to not send our tax payer dollars overseas?

That's what his opinion is all about. It's less a statement about what they did, it's more about what we aren't going to send to a country. Your Tax dollars.

Is that bad?


The President doesn't "send our tax payer dollars" anywhere. Congress does.

Oh, and who says "we" don't like what they did there? I do actually.

[edit on 30/6/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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And you are surprised that an illegal alien comes out against another 'President' being overthrown? Come on, when it happens here, he wants all the other leaders all over the world, to support his hoax, too.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Why is he sticking his nose into Honduras' business? Is he doing this to support his buddies in Venezuela and Cuba who are backing the ousted President?


There is a precedent for America (gah, I hate that term for the 'yanks'..)sorry, the U.S.A. sticking its nose into other countries' business, certainly in the latter half of last century and this century.

I guess it brings out all the haters though, who still seem unhappy with having an african-american president.




posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


Listen to what you said! Obama does not like the precedent that was set. You overstep your authority you will be punished! Why do you think most "democratic" countries have three branch's of government, to prevent abuse of power! Obama is hand-picking his czars and they have no check in place!!! Supreme court nominees and cabinet picks are all approved by a confirmation hearing. Can you figure out why that is? To prevent power abuse! Why is following the laws on a case by case basis? For all the abuses laid on the feet of Bush's regime why can you not call out Obama on his?



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by sunny_2008ny
 
This is hilarious! A US pres that wont support a military coup against a Central American regime that was an ally of the USA's enemies... Oh yeah, cos the USA is known for not instigating coups d'etats or supporting them in its 'backyard' right lol?
No, hang on its cos he's a socialist. Yeah. Please explain to me how $700 billion to big business is socialism? He's just not as rabid a freemarketeer as you're used to is all.
No, wait. Its cos he's a coward. He wont stand up to China's allies, so he habes no testiculos, right? You might want to think about the power China holds over the US economy folks. Can you take a large devaluation with massive import cost rises?
This climbdown is the final evidence you need to understand that America is now taking it firmly up the rear from China. What do you want Obama to do, nuke them?
Just remember who did this to you: it wasn't Obama that borrowed trillions from China, it was 'we won't tax & spend, we'll cut tax for the rich & spend anyway' Bush Jnr.
Hilarious!



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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He condemned the coup along with the leader of every other country in the Western Hemisphere, the UN, the OAS, etc...

I dunno how much I would actually read into this



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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LOL, Nickmare,

You do realize you linked to EXACTLY the same article that I did...CBC? Just sourced through different sites...yours was direct, mine wasn't. They do seem to be updating as more info comes to light.

Regardless, unless we are Honduran and on the ground, we have no idea what's really going on.....is Selaya another Chavez? Riding the platform for the poor and unrepresented? Or he is a facilitator of the drug trade, a dictator in the making? Are Honduran's twittering...lol? Tell ya the true...I didn't know of him until the past couple of days. One thing I do know, is the track record of the US when it comes to Central American affairs and politics. If Obama follows suit, it won't be in the interest of the Honduran people.....no matter who's in power. Just google bannana's +suger cane+US+central america and see what ya find.


To compare this event to Iran at the moment, isn't correct.

The Honduran military, apparently acting on the behest of congress, expelled the elected President for proposing to hold a referendum.....say that again.....a referendum....a poll of the people on an issue.

Iran situation is opposite....
.....the people are contesting a NATIONAL election, because of suspected voter fraud. The military is supporting the current goverment and not expelling it's leader.

Ying-yang I guess. The thing I find the most funny, is that Selaya is doing exactly what most people that post on this board are always complaining about.......politicians taking on TPTB and trying to change the current establishments.....a different breed. Not sure of this guys real motives( again don't know much about him), but perhaps we all should research his accomplishments and goals more, before we judge if this is good or bad.

I hope the Americans, always talking of revolution, are studying these events closely. Not just the under-pinning, but the response and perception of those outside your country. Was there any referendum for the Patriot Act and altering your constitution? An honest referendum is true DEMOCRACY.



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