Do 6 Out of 10 Americans Really Not Believe In Evolution?, page 4

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reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 06:07 AM by System

Originally posted by DASFEX
If an atheist has evolution PROVED WRONG to him, he must then face the possibility of a God to whom he is answerable.

I thought evolution had been proved true. But if scientists find something that doesn't work in evolution they will throw a party because they've made a new discovery, and move forward. They look at all available evidence and come to the most logical conclusion. Currently that conclusion points towards evolution.

You can't apply logic to creationism as there is no evidence for it. Creationists seem to think the theory of evolution is a religion. Where if one thing is wrong then the whole theory must be and therefore you have to throw it out. This may be true with the bible but the theory of evolution is completely different.

If all the evidence available pointed to a creator then scientists would accept that as the most likely explanation for the universe. But they would never stop testing other theories.

Scientists are not your enemy. They are jus searching for the truth.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 06:08 AM by FlyersFan

reply to post by Kaytagg

Why are you 'chagrin'd' that, according to this poll, 60% don't believe in evolution?
It's an UNPROVEN THEORY.

Natural selection is a fact but evolution is not.
Dig up the so called 'missing link' and you will get more believers.

Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
There is no scientific evidence of a gods having a hand in our creation, or any other animal's creation.

There is no scientific evidence of evolution.
Natural selection - yes. Evolution - no.
Those are two different things.

Originally posted by System
6 out of 10 Americans is quite a worrying statistic for a well accepted theory.

Yes it's only a theory ... but obviously it's not 'well accepted'.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
the anti-evolution position isn't based on facts or evidence, and therefore, can not be refuted with facts and evidence.

the pro-evolution position isn't based on facts or evidence, and therefore, can not be refuted with facts and evidence. Backatchya. Show us the missing link evidence.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Why is it always: Creationism Vs. Evolution?
The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

EXACTLY!

Originally posted by System
it seems like Creationists are afraid of the unknown and make up wild stories to comfort themselves.

It seems like evolutionists are afraid of the unknown and make up wild stories to comfort themselves. They so desperately don't want a god to be involved that they decide it has to be evolution, even though there is no evidence of it. The thought of a powerful God deciding their fate is frightening for them so they are in denial and make up 'evolution' even without the evidence to support that theory.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein

Evolution.
Creation.
What about manipulation of our species by other worlders?
That's just as possible as evolution or creationism.

[edit on 6/30/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 06:17 AM by System

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Kaytagg

Originally posted by System
6 out of 10 Americans is quite a worrying statistic for a well accepted theory.

Yes it's only a theory ... but obviously it's not 'well accepted'.

Well I guess that depends where you come from. It seems to be well accepted in this part of the UK. I guess America and other counties can't get over the idea that everything was created by a magical man that lives in the sky.

Does your God need a magic wand to create things?

[edit on 30/6/2009 by System]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 06:20 AM by Lannock

reply to post by weedwhacker

That sounds like something out taken out of the Bible. Regurgitate something enough times then you'll find a group of people who'll believe it.

My favourite is : "Leave a chemical soup for long enough and it will become life and eventually evolve into millions of different species." Anything + time = millions of different living organisms.

Just like there are different kinds of creationists (I am anti-Christianity) there are different kinds of evolutionists who have their own versions of evolution. One even said there's no such thing as a "missing link" where any reasonably well educated person knows that the fossil record is literally riddled with "missing links" aka "transitional forms".

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Lannock]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 06:24 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by System
I guess America and other counties can't get over the idea that everything was created by a magical man that lives in the sky. Does your God need a magic wand to create things?

What a snarky and ignorant thing to say.
School is out for the summer and you have nothing else to do, eh?

You didn't bother to read my entire post.
Here .. I'll spoon feed you since you are incapable of feeding yourself.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein

No where did I say that I believed God spot zapped us into life on this planet.
I'm stating the FACTS about the THEORY of Evolution.
It's comical that you can't handle those facts, since those who worship
at the altar of Evolution claim that all they care about is facts.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:06 AM by KarlG

For those who insist Creation exists,

GET OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD.

Read books!

Look at animals!

The big ol' sky!

The oceans and the emotions and the beauty and horror of life!

How can any ONE entity have created that?

It's a result of the PASSING of time - Time is the ONLY creator, because time is powerful enough to make people forget, to make things change, to allow people to die and get born again, or for EVOLUTION to occur.

I don't know why's there's still debate.

Seriously, if only everyone would STOP reading only ONE book: The Bible, and stop fearing hell and sin.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:09 AM by KarlG

reply to post by FlyersFan

What you're doing is to DISPROVE the theory of Evolution to PROVE Creation.

What you need to do is PROVE Creation WITHOUT disproving Evolution Theory.

Because the Evolution Theory CAN be proved by itself WITHOUT discreditation of Creation, though of course the two cannot CO-EXIST (there is a difference).

Can the same be said for Creation?

If you can prove the existence of Creation WITHOUT your "book of facts": The Bible, WITHOUT saying how "Evolution is flawed, blah blah", then yes, well done and I might be inclined to change my views.

Whereas I can make a stand for the scientific nature and process of Evolution through time WITHOUT bringing in Creation at all.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:11 AM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Lannock

I don't think what I provided in my post "sounds like" anything from the bible at all. In fact, it'll probably make most the 'buybull' thumpers turn away in disgust, since the majority are mostly so close-minded, nothing will get through.

ED: Because I originally used the word 'anything' three times...

[edit on 6/30/0909 by weedwhacker]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:14 AM by laiguana

It depends on education, location and so forth...Many Americans are not people of science, so they don't care about the details that are involved, especially if it conflicts with religious or spiritual beliefs. I live in an interesting area, where there's a lot of these traditional folk who make a living in farming, construction, and other labor intensive jobs and also a lot of people with backgrounds in nuclear physics, chemistry and technology. It's quite an interesting mix. I respect both sides though...because if we didn't have our farmers we wouldn't have our food.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:15 AM by KarlG

Originally posted by Lannock
reply to post by weedwhacker

That sounds like something out taken out of the Bible. Regurgitate something enough times then you'll find a group of people who'll believe it.

My favourite is : "Leave a chemical soup for long enough and it will become life and eventually evolve into millions of different species." Anything + time = millions of different living organisms.

Just like there are different kinds of creationists (I am anti-Christianity) there are different kinds of evolutionists who have their own versions of evolution. One even said there's no such thing as a "missing link" where any reasonably well educated person knows that the fossil record is literally riddled with "missing links" aka "transitional forms".

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Lannock]

I absolutely agree.

Time is the ONE and SOLE power, and is not an entity, and is not sentient.

Time is just, well, the passing of time.

As I have mentioned in an earlier reply, time allows people to forget. It allows people to age. It allows people to CHANGE FORMS (wrinkles, bone problems, saggier body parts) and to CHANGE in general. It results in death. It results in life.

It results in weathering. It results in changing climates and different Presidents taking over and the economy collapsing and booming again and collapsing once more. Sure, time doesn't DIRECTLY cause all these things, but without the passing of time, NOTHING would happen. No one would age.

And if there IS a God, can he control Time? If you say yes, WOW.

There is no DIRECT reason for why things happen the way they do - the notion of a God indicates a DIRECT reason for why things happen. God Created you and I. God Created this and that. God is the DIRECT reason for why things happen. But, as in nature, as in life, NOTHING is direct.

Even time, the only factor that ensures days pass and people move on with life, is an uncertain force and does not directly cause problems. The notion of a God contradicts this so intensely it does not make any sense.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:16 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by KarlG
What you're doing is to DISPROVE the theory of Evolution to PROVE Creation.

No I didn't. Find one place in any of my posts where I say that God spot zapped us into reality. No where.

the Evolution Theory CAN be proved by itself

No it can't. that's why it's a theory. It can't be proven.
Natural selection can be. But evolution hasn't been.
Those are two different things.

WITHOUT your "book of facts": The Bible,

- you don't know me very well if you say the bible is 'your book of facts'

- No where have I said anything about the bible.

- The bible is not a 'book of facts'. It is many things - truth, fable, myth, stolen material from the Egyptians and Summerians, deep spirituality, bunk, history, re-written history, spooky, thought provoking, - but not a 'book of facts'.

I HAVE NOT STATED WHAT I BELIEVE.
It is irrelevant to the conversation.

FACT - Evolution is just one theory among many. It has not been proven. Neither has creationism. Neither has 'seeding' from other worlds. They are all unproven theories - scientifically speaking.

[edit on 6/30/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:33 AM by Kaytagg

So, anyone still doubting the validity of this poll? I think it's probably accurate -- judging from the mixed responses on ATS, any how.

The most striking thing, in my mind, is that a large majority of people who disbelieve in evolution are very uneducated. Sounds almost too obvious to even need a poll to tell me that.

I sort of don't mind the anti-intellectual streak in America. It just narrows the competition for the 40% minority which some of us are lucky enough to be in. I feel like religion has given me an advantage over 60% of Americans, so this is certainly not all bad news.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:41 AM by unclekrabz

That is shocking, really shocking, soshocking that even i cant believe it (actually i can). Wellwho cares, let them be stupid.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:48 AM by unclekrabz

reply to post by FlyersFan

Evolution is actually not the theory, Natural Selection is, Evolution is a fact, examples
en.wikipedia.org...
no missing link, think again en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
and many other examples like HIV and the Banana (yep, the banana is the result of controlled evolution by human cultivation, it wasnt here before the humans wre, but the native one was, which looks WAY diff fom the new one)

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:52 AM by daygloeyes

I'm not a genius. I don't claim to be. I don't have 20934098 sources to back up what I'm about to say, but being me, Imma say it anyway.

The modern horse evolved from a common ancestor, yes? And that ancestor disappeared as generations "evolved."

Whales evolved from a common ancestor that then disappeared, yes? And that land-walking cow-like ancestor disappeared as generations "evolved."

So, if humans evolved from apes, why do we still have apes? Shouldn't the apes have evolved into the more successful "human" variant and the less successful ancestors would have died out?

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:21 AM by Lannock

Originally posted by KarlG
For those who insist Creation exists,

GET OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD.

Read books!

Look at animals!

The big ol' sky!

The oceans and the emotions and the beauty and horror of life!

How can any ONE entity have created that?

It's a result of the PASSING of time - Time is the ONLY creator, because time is powerful enough to make people forget, to make things change, to allow people to die and get born again, or for EVOLUTION to occur.

I don't know why's there's still debate.

Seriously, if only everyone would STOP reading only ONE book: The Bible, and stop fearing hell and sin.

For those who insist the universe came about by chance and was not created,

GET OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD.

Read books!

Look at animals!

The big ol' sky!

The oceans and the emotions and the beauty and horror of life!

How can any of those things come about by chance?

It's a result of CREATION - Only the Creator is powerful enough to make things change, to allow people to die and get born again, or for natural selection to occur.

I don't know why's there's still debate.

Seriously, if only everyone would THINK and realise how beautiful and COMPLEX our universe is (we probably know less than 0.000001 % of what is {possible} in our universe) they would have no doubt of CREATION.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:25 AM by weedwhacker

reply to post by daygloeyes

Whales evolved from a common ancestor that then disappeared, yes?

No. There are currently living land-based relatives of the whale. Look it up.

And that land-walking cow-like ancestor disappeared as generations "evolved."

No, again. You're confusing things. Actually, you had it correct in your sentence about whales. "Common ancestor".

Which leads me to this:

So, if humans evolved from apes, why do we still have apes?

Humans did NOT! I repeat did NOT!!! Evolve 'from' apes. We share a common ancestor.

Shouldn't the apes have evolved into the more successful "human" variant and the less successful ancestors would have died out?

Some early simian precursors DID evolve into a successful Human variant!

Others branched into monkeys and apes and lemurs, etc, we see today.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:25 AM by Shadowflux

I actually think that 60% of Americans have no clue whats going on around them in the world. I've known a great many devout Christians who fully believed in evolution and science in general so the idea that this is somehow a fight between scientists and Christians is just ridiculous.

Evolution has nothing to do with Christianity.

It's really just a fight between science and people who lack enough imagination to not take the Bible literally.

It's a fight between Ignorance and Knowledge (in some belief systems Ignorance is a sin!!)

I do have to say, that this increase in the creationist movement is most disconcerting.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:25 AM by PowerSlave

What is with the constant comments from evolutionists calling creationists stupid? Why such a strong desire to insult/put down people who believe in God? Does it make you feel superior to insult another? I am just curious.

As for the stat about the higher the education the more likely the belief in evolution. This makes absolute sense to me considering the only theory taught in school is evolution. And it is presented as fact, whereas religion, if mentioned is generally mentioned only when discussing war.

So it stands to reason that if people drop out of school they will not be hearing/learning about evolution so much. But watch any award show on TV and see most "thank god" for their award.

We just don't know the answer right now period.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:33 AM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Lannock

Lannock, your beliefs are yours, but facts belong to everyone.

Seriously, if only everyone would THINK and realise how beautiful and COMPLEX our universe is (we probably know less than 0.000001 % of what is {possible} in our universe) they would have no doubt of CREATION.

You, yourself just showed the complete illogic in asserting 'creation'.

You mention the COMPLEXITY of the Universe....(which by inference also includes diversity??)....yet we Humans cannot survive, unprotected in all but the tiniest fraction of a sliver of it.

I think your 'creator' is bollocks! Or, he's just not all that clever.