Britain has 85 sharia courts: The astonishing spread of the Islamic justice behind closed doors , page 8

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reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:40 AM by Foppezao

I know i can also settle a dispute between two other friends..The thing is, i dont believe a woman truly has a free will when she says she recognizes the court which will not allow her to marry a non-muslim or force her to have sex with her scary husband..[otherwise she would be expelled from her community]
I heard in Pakistan these Sharia courts are more populair because they can settle disputes more quicker then the bureacratic and corrupt justice apparatus in Pakistan..So then we can begin somewhere, better our own justice system[and forbid the sharia courts]

and besides, we only have one MP who's going to ask quetions in our parliament about this, quess what, its Geert Wilders.. [the man who was not allowed entry into the UK]

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Foppezao]

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Foppezao]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:50 AM by badw0lf

Originally posted by Foppezao

It was a metaphor [but really happenend]
If i was the hotel owner or chef i wouldnt allowed that since, most of the budget is spend on food[they drink me rich, they eat me poor ], and actually in most parts of France it is forbidden to picknick at a restaurant..which should be normal...
but back on topic.
It scars me this is happening next door to me, and it shouldnt happen at all in the EU..Domestic issues should not be judged by an Imam or mullah, we have a written constitution and i know the Uk only has a partly written constitution and part common law, those Sharia laws should not be part of that common law, and the written constitution or jurisprudence should make that clear...

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Foppezao]

My opinion goes as, what consenting people do with their own lives INSIDE of current law, is no ones business.

If family A thinks a sharia court would suit them in order to deal with a domestic dispute and no crime has been comitted, then before the law of the land they have every right to do so.

Once a law is broken, then by all means it is another matter.

However I agree with you in regards to having this written into a binding legal common law. No way. That I would argue against tooth and nail, simply because that indeed opens a door to abuse.

That is the slippery slope I was referring to previously.

Still, there is that WHEN that we need to look at, and not confuse the issues prior.

EDIT TO ADD - I want to reiterate that if anyone is forced, a woman, wife or daughter is forced to do anything against their will in this situation (No point mentioning the males, as it's a patriarchal concept to begin with) then that goes beyond community consent and comes under governing law. I don't go for this "You are married, you a reproperty" bollocks. Just to clarify.

[edit on 30/6/2009 by badw0lf]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:58 AM by Foppezao

Originally posted by badw0lf

Originally posted by Foppezao

It was a metaphor [but really happenend]
If i was the hotel owner or chef i wouldnt allowed that since, most of the budget is spend on food[they drink me rich, they eat me poor ], and actually in most parts of France it is forbidden to picknick at a restaurant..which should be normal...
but back on topic.
It scars me this is happening next door to me, and it shouldnt happen at all in the EU..Domestic issues should not be judged by an Imam or mullah, we have a written constitution and i know the Uk only has a partly written constitution and part common law, those Sharia laws should not be part of that common law, and the written constitution or jurisprudence should make that clear...

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Foppezao]

My opinion goes as, what consenting people do with their own lives INSIDE of current law, is no ones business.

If family A thinks a sharia court would suit them in order to deal with a domestic dispute and no crime has been comitted, then before the law of the land they have every right to do so.

Once a law is broken, then by all means it is another matter.

However I agree with you in regards to having this written into a binding legal common law. No way. That I would argue against tooth and nail, simply because that indeed opens a door to abuse.

That is the slippery slope I was referring to previously.

Still, there is that WHEN that we need to look at, and not confuse the issues prior.

There is an expression for that, its called putting your hand in the sand..
The UK just knew about this number of 85 since the report of Civitas, courts behind closed doors, women's rights infringed, and it is because people say it is within their law system so its ok, i say they're putting their heads in the sand..
It is behind closed doors, so they cant tell whether or not its against their common law, but as AngelInterceptor noted, muslim women are not too dandy about it...

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Foppezao]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 07:58 AM by neformore

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by Freeborn

Ann Cryer is my MP

Look - I'm not saying these things are perfect. I don't think they are. What I am saying is that they are legal, and widespread, in many many different areas of British Society.

Pressure gets put on people in the judicial court system too via family and associate intimidation, and while people scream injustice for women under this kind of arbitration, try being a father going through an English divorce court and getting custody of your kids.

I don't see anyone being told to "go home" over that kind of thing.

And thats what I wholeheartedly OBJECT to most of all Free (and I'm not implying this comes from you) - This "go home" bollocks that gets sprouted. It is possible to be part of any of the worlds major religions and to have been born in the UK.

As a white human Jedi (thats what I put on the last census), where the hell do I "go home" to? Tatooine? How do I get there?

The world isn't black and white, its very delicate shades of grey - to me at least.

But maybe thats just me

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the hate. hate for Muslims, hate for Jews, hate for anything different or unusual, hate in politics...the only consistent thing I see these days is hate. Constructive thinking and discussion seems to have gone out of the window.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

[edit on 30/6/09 by neformore]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:20 AM by Stormdancer777

reply to post by neformore

If any party involved in arbitration does not feel they are being treated fairly the matter can be referred to the main legal system.

Oh it's a slippery slope, and before your head stops spinning you will wake one day and find you have been had.
www.ntpi.org...

I would like to take a poll.

How many women have posted under this topic?

And do you like the idea?
www.jpost.com...

"Among the rulings, we find some that advise illegal actions and others that transgress human rights standards as applied by British courts," MacEoin wrote.

Most Muslim countries, including Iran, have adopted an interpretation of Sharia involving restrictions on women movements, multiple marriages, beheading for murder, beatings for adultery and drinking. Even today a woman cannot drive in Saudi Arabia or wander alone outside her house.

Sharia is used to scare the average citizen into submission. This is done through publicly staged floggings, stoning and executions of men and women for committing adultery or other sexual acts. There are public be-headings in Saudi Arabia every Friday after afternoon prayers.
weblogs.baltimoresun.com...

Maybe, subconsciously,some western men like the laws., because they feel they have been emasculated by the womens rights movement.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:22 AM by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Originally posted by badw0lf

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
If we were to go on holiday over to an Islamic country

Then as a good citizen knowing the laws of their land and understanding their culture, you would abide by their laws and rules.

Or why the effing hell would you go there?

Exactly my point you numnut!!!

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:25 AM by Nathan9197

I think this is wrong. I mean, if people who follow Islam want to come to this country thats fine, they can do there bit for the 'economy' (if there was one)... But building courts that will help husbands to force there wives into having sex with then, in this country, is wrong.

What has happened to the United Kingdom

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:25 AM by Stormdancer777

reply to post by neformore

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the hate. hate for Muslims, hate for Jews, hate for anything different or unusual, hate in politics...the only consistent thing I see these days is hate.

What about Christians?

Sorry, I find it hard to respect people who are not tolerant, and strict Muslims are NOT TOLERANT.

This planet wil NEVER change, when a seemingly civilized country is going back to the darkages, how can this happen?

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:34 AM by Laurauk

reply to post by Stormdancer777

I have posted under this topic, and I was classed as racist because of it. I find it bizzarre that people defends a law which discriminates against women. I donot care what anyone says that is what sharia law is, it favours the male, rather than the female.

Knows I will be shot downinflame for saying so but it is true.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:37 AM by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Stormdancer777

I have posted under this topic, and I was classed as racist because of it. I find it bizzarre that people defends a law which discriminates against women. I donot care what anyone says that is what sharia law is, it favours the male, rather than the female.

Knows I will be shot downinflame for saying so but it is true.

Well said Laurauk..... you would know being a woman yourself what effects the Islamic religion has/would have on anyone!!!

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:39 AM by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

People leave an opressive Country to get away from all the crap not to live happily in that chosen country only for it to come back to haunt them.........

Anyway we don't want it here............ that should be the end of it really!

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:45 AM by WatchRider

Originally posted by Foppezao

Actually i am stunned..law only applies for people who recognize the court..still what would happen with women's right..
Incredible how London/Albion allows these courts next to its own common law...
Hope this will wake up the UK and beyond...

www.dailymail.c o.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I'm shocked, I knew they were on about having sharia law but this is beyond the pale.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:46 AM by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Stormdancer777

I have posted under this topic, and I was classed as racist because of it. I find it bizzarre that people defends a law which discriminates against women. I donot care what anyone says that is what sharia law is, it favours the male, rather than the female.

Knows I will be shot downinflame for saying so but it is true.

You are correct,

Remember that old saying?, "Give them an inch, the will take a mile."

Yea people always use the ole racism ploy.

Seems to work rather well.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:49 AM by WatchRider

Originally posted by Retseh
Who cares, the UK is finished anyway, this is just like kicking a dead horse.

My only concern is that when they have figured out what a nightmare they have managed to create over there, they run East, not West.

And to think it was one of the most beautiful countries in the world once upon a time, I have never seen anything nicer than an English country estate.

Truly tragic, oh well, it's their country, if they want to trash it, it's not really any of our business.

It's finished, when we say it's finished, and don't you forget it sunshine!

There's millions of native Brits who are waking up to the trojan horses that have been wheeled in while they were partying on the never-never.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:54 AM by centurion1211

Originally posted by Mr Gunter
The IRA had their own form of justice too.

Kneecappings, kidnapping, murder.

The issue here (Sharia Law) will resolve itself over the course of a generation or two, when the young kids will reject Islam in favour of being able to make up ones own mind regarding religious matters, without the fear of retribution, ridicule, or revenge.

Islamic courts will fail. It'll just take time.

The only way to accelerate it would be for some type of IRA style justice detailed above to occur and make it onto the front page of every UK daily.

just

Totally naive post IMO. In a couple of generations all the young kids will be totally indoctrinated into believing that sharia law is the way it should be for everyone at the rate the UK is going.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 08:57 AM by Stormdancer777

I'll tell you what, most women are terrified to go against these men.

I cannot see many of them taking them on.

It is about fear.

I know an American couple very well, they have been in America for some 30 years, he is a devout Muslim, he had an affair with w 18 year old employee.

When the wife freaked out, he threatened to send her back to get straightened out.

If it weren't for his very Americanized sons, who Adore their mother and stepped in to stop it we don't know what would have happened.

Lust and power and fear, deadly combination.

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 09:03 AM by Laurauk

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Tell me about it, once I state an opinion, or a view I amjumped on called racist, and demonised by certain members of ats.

I found this while reading up with regards to sharia law/courts:

Some argue that the cultural argument within Sharia for the rights of women states that Muslim women by virtue of accepting Islam voluntarily submit themselves to obeying their husbands and the veil. The veil is considered a sign of modesty, so that she may be regarded as an intelligent human and not merely an object of desire. Some also argue that according to Sharia's concept of blood money (Diyya) a woman is worth half that of a man.

Sharia Law doesnot look favourbly upon women, males have more rights than thoir counterparts so how is that fair at all?

Also I found:

The European Court of Human Rights: "[T]he Court considers that sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it. [...] It is difficult to declare one's respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverges from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervenes in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts."[94]

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Laurauk]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 10:31 AM by Daisy-Lola

reply to post by Nammu

So you're demanding all the Jews go back to Israel then?

No, because the majority are not from Israel. Most Jews come from parts of Europe. I stated that if you wish to be governed by a particular law, then go and seek it out, don't try and establish it near me.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Daisy-Lola
British Law is not a choice, it's part of being British. It has it's own rules and regulations.

Yes.

And allowing arbitration between parties is one of them.

I think you missed out an important word there which is "willing", as in "between willing parties"

And honestly, I expected a mod to have a little more intelligence than to use

- People who use it drop 5 IQ points each time. Then again maybe I expected a little too much

[edit on 30/6/09 by Daisy-Lola]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 11:08 AM by Retseh

reply to post by symmetricAvenger

If you're doing so fine, how come your well educated are fleeing in droves?

As for the US being living proof of your success, those Brits who came here made the trip to escape British religious persecution, which of course followed them and tried to take over here, and so you were booted out - twice.

You're right, it's a paradise over there, you just make sure you stay there and enjoy it, matey.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Retseh]

reply posted on 30-6-2009 @ 11:24 AM by poet1b

Clearly, these clerics are going to hold their own courts, whether it is legal or not, and has probably been going on for awhile now.

The answer is to develop laws which regulate these courts, require the hearings to be open to the public, and set down punishments for these Islamic judges who make rulings that violate British law.

The way these Muslims operate, who shun the culture of the host country, is just like the Mafia, and that is how they should be treated. If it is found that these Islamic courts are creating an atmosphere of intimidation and control, than the judges should be thrown in jail. If it is found that these Islamic Judges are putting out decrees for something like an honor killing, then they should be tried as the co-conspirators for murder, or assault, or rape. If it is found that they are holding these courts in secret, arrest the judges, and it they are a part of the mosque, close he mosque.