I keep reading posts that go on about the Illuminati as if there was no real mystery about the group at all. When in fact there is no proof (as I am aware of) that they even still exist. There is proof of the Bilderburgers, the TLC, the CFR, the Masons, the Shriners, even the NAMBLA. But while people who seem to have a good grasp on the real world talk about a group of supposedly sinister rich folk, there is no proof. I am not convinced that they exist. Could there be such a group? Most certainly. But without proof, there is no more reason to believe in them than there is in Santa Claus. I would just like for those that think they know, to explain how they know. And not because Icke said so. Think of this as Myth Busters on the Illuminati.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by network dude]

yeah i wasnt exactly sure where all that type of stuff came from either. im not sure how anyone is supposed to distinguish between ANY of the secret world controlling organizations.




"In addition to the shadowy and secret organization proposed by conspiracy theories, several modern fraternal groups claim to be the "heirs" of the Bavarian Illuminati and have openly used the name "Illuminati" in founding their own rites. Some, such as the multiple groups that call themselves some variation on "The Illuminati Order"[12][13][14] use the name directly in the name of their organization, while others, such as the Ordo Templi Orientis, and the Grand Lodge Rockefeller founded by David Goldman, use the name as a grade of initiation within their organization."

from
en.wikipedia.org...

maybe thats where they get the idea, the fact that other groups use the image?

[edit on 29-6-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

reply to post by network dude

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servicetoone.wordpress.com...

I read all of it...I couldnt not read it all.

I hope this helps.

I apologize in advance because this will take some looking-into that I don't have time to do right now, but...

From what I understand the Knights Templar, uponing gaining some astounding god-like knowledge, had gained a lot of control over the roadways and political establishments of Europe. They got pressured out of the area by the kings and country leaders but it was at this time that the name "illuminati" came to be; due directly to their incredible knowledge of universal workings.

As an add-on, when they left Europe they went on to Scotland and created "Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite" Freemasonry

While there are a lot of theories regarding the order, none of the things I have found are proof. Yes there is a group called the Scottish Rite. There is no indication that is had anything to do with the original 1700's version of the Illuminati. They both share some ideals, but nowhere in my becoming a 32nd degree mason did I learn anything at all about the Illuminati. I know several 33rd degree masons who are just as much in the dark about this as I. Looking at people like David Icke, who stand to profit from wild stories (the weirder the better) spout this info as if it were written in the Bible. When in fact nobody has presented any clear evidence that such a thing is even real. It just seems like stories. Like the Reptilians who live under the earths surface. Could they be real? I sincerely doubt it. But there are some who would argue that they are just as real as you or I. My point is, just because someone said it, does not make it any more real, or any more a fantasy. Proof is the only thing that determines fact from fiction. So Jerry McGuire, "Show me the money!"

Illuminati or "Illuminated Ones" is a system of ideology and is comprised of a network of powerful individuals vs an organization such as TLC, CFR etc. with a headquarters and/or website.

This book written in 1798 describes the origins and history of the Illuminati.
www.sacred-texts.com...

They date back to having incited the French Revolution.

They were forced underground by world leaders due to their conspirational ideologies and have remained so ever since.

Unfortunately seeking proof will never be satisfied due to the fact that they aim to maintain their secrecy.

Modern Secret Societies of the powers that be such as Skull & Bones where only a select few Yale students of affluent families and correct lineage are "Invited". typify the continuity of Illuminati ideology such as "New World Order", first spoken by Bonesman George H.W. Bush in his presidential inaugural address.

www.mega.nu:8080...

reply to post by nh_ee

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but here is the problem. People think they know something about them, they even write paragraphs of information as if it was a fact, and then claim there will be no proof since the group is so secret. It can't be both ways. If they are secret, then their agenda, members, hell, their very existence would be unknown. Yet all one needs to do is check a few threads here and you will find hundreds of experts.

Let's take you for example, where did you gain your knowledge? Did you take a class, or did you just study up on it? I am not trying to bash anyone here, just see where all this secret knowledge comes from.

If it's supposed to be a secret, then nobody should know about it. If everyone knows about it, then it ain't a secret. If people claim it is a fact that it is real, then there must be proof, or it's just a fantasy.

en.wikipedia.org...

'Nuff said.

Woah! Hold on there big thunder.
-linked wiki aritcle

Did you read your link? there is a good bit of sauce, but absolutely no meat whatsoever. Not that Wiki is a valid source for anything, but read what is there. Specifically look for the word "theory", you will see it alot.
Still no proof.

reply to post by network dude

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You asked for proof of the illuminati. I gave it to you.

Founded by Dr. David Weishaupt on May 1st, 1776
en.wikipedia.org...

BTW, yes I know that wiki is not the world's best source, but it is the easiest one to get to....there are thousands of sources about Weishaupt and his "Order of Perfectibilists".

There is no debate as to whether there is a group called the illuminati. Where it gets all jumbled is when occukt, satanism, world domination, etc, start being thrown in.

Do a little research.

Bold added to my original post. I think you are misunderstanding my question. I fully understand that a group was formed in the 1700s called the Illuminati. There is much information on it. I did the research. What seems to be missing, is the modern day truth. You linked the article as if it contained proof that I could go down the street and find the building the Illuminati have lunch at. So again I ask. Is there proof (any at all) that in the year 2009, there exists a group of people who are the fabled "Illuminati" whom are mentioned on ATS every day? (the ones who are in control of the NWO and all the money)

And by your own sources, that order was dissolved in 1785. So why do people think they're around today?

Ahhh, I see your point. Here's the thing though-if you are looking for proof positive that right now, on june 29th, the illuminati is opperating, you're being silly. You won't find it.

However, those of us that have reserched the topic(myself ad-nauseum), and start connecting the dots, it's pretty apparent. The group is known to have existed. The members of the origional group are KNOWN to have split into other groups and factions. Those factions are KNOWN to have infiltrated governments, worldwide.

The error, I think, that most people make is trying to pigeonhole the "illuminati" as one specific group. It's much like the word "terrorist"-a blanket statement that can encompass anyone you want it to, if applied correctly.

I personally prefer terms like "The Powers that Be" and things like that, as they don't try to group all of it into one.

Sorry if I got off of your origional subject, that was not my intention.

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

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no problem. And I see your point, but the reason I even started this thread is because there are some folks who think they know stuff when in fact they are only parroting something that was wrong, but sounded good. Much like the folks who claim to know all about the masonic order and claim that I am just a blind follower who has no idea what is really going on, but some 15 year old kid with pimples and an internet connection knows way more than any of us.

It should be required to give verifiable proof when claiming something as fact.(IMHO)

Have a nice day.

There always has to be an invisible enemy lurking somewhere that is controlling the strings, as humanity on a whole is still to infantile to accept the concept of Free Will and that they are the arbiters of their own Destiny.

In ancient times it was the Host of Gods.
Then it was "Magickal Forces".
Then it was "Satan, Lucifer, Iblis, Ahriman, or whatever his name"
Then it was "Jews"
Then it was "Witches"
Then it was "the Templars"
Then it was "Jews again"
Then it was "The Aristocracy"
Then it was "Freemasons"
Then it was "Jews yet again"
Then it was "Science and Atheists"
Then it was "African Americans"
Then it was "Women Lib"
Then it was "What? Jews a fourth time! Can't people be a little more creative?"
Then it was "the Military Industrial Complex"
Then it was "the CIA"
Then it was "Rock Music"
Then it was "Organized Satanic Conspiracy"
Then it was "The Media"
Now it is "NWO, Reptilian Aliens, and the Illuminati"

Some one has to be blamed for why the common person, such as themselves, can't seem to become famous, or rich, or successful. Considering the thought they they never did much of anything to become rich or famous or successful is too ego-shattering of a thing to consider when you can just blame it all on someone else.

The history of the scapegoat...an eternal truth that is inherent to human nature. *SIGH*

As far as the actual origins of the Illuminati, even that can't be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt. I would refer you to but two pages from Alfred Dodd's book The Martyrdom of Roger Bacon that details Roger Bacon's involvement in an Elizabethan Literary Society called "Pallas Athena" or "Order of Knights of the Helmet" that not only was the origin of the Rosicrucian movement in the English speaking world, but the publisher of the three original Rosicrucian Manifestos that were published in Germany.

It's actually a little funny to think that people would make a scapegoat of a group who was founded to standardize the English language and to later promote the Advancement of Learning, the Maintenance of Religion, and the Improvement of Manners, Morals, Arts, and Sciences. That hardly seems like anything frightening or diabolical, let alone hellbent on Total World Domination.

Since joining ATS, I have found that the Illuminati are Masons, Devil Worshipers, Jews, Aliens, Non-Alien Inhumans, Everyone who is above me in social rankings, just my boss' boss, ect.

The Illuminati is a windwill for conspiracy theorists to charge.

Now, there is most likely a loose confederation of companies and people who would fill some parts of the role of the Illuminati, however, I doubt they would be able to represent any sort of united front.



One of the very few times I've inadvertently laughed out loud at a post on ATS was when someone used their group of friend's lack of success as proof only certain key individuals will achieve fame and fortune.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by RuneSpider]

AH! Now I understand

'Illuminati'= The Powers That Be

However, TPTB= The 'Boogeyman'
Because a lack of hard proof of the Boogeyman is absolute proof. Only a super-powerful Boogeyman could make himself unprovable, QED

Good show on History right now might give you a little insight

reply to post by network dude

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Your asking the wrong question.

Your asking if the Illuminati exist. Well who are they? Where are they? Is there evidence they exist? Looking for an answer to any of these questions will get you nowhere.

Instead ask WHAT exactly is the Illuminati? Firstly what is the word? Well nothing more then plural of the Latin illuminatus or enlightened. Illuminated or enlightened to what? The Freemason's believe themselves enlightened to the ancient mystery schools; does that make them Illuminati? Perhaps. How about the CIA, NSA, DHS, and whatever other government agencies you can think of. They deal in government secrets which detail information not available to anyone else. With that information could they be illuminated? Perhaps. How about the churches of the world that each share their own mysteries. Illuminated? Perhaps. How about the IMF, world central banks, and other major financial institutions? Do they know things the public doesn't. Does that make them illuminated? Perhaps. Could all these organizations be working together? Maybe.

Point being Illuminati has always been a cover word. It's used to fill in a blank. It's something pointless to use because while using it you will never call something by it's true name. Instead it is an idea, and one shared by many conspiracy theorist. It's an idea that those in power know something we don't, and so use that knowledge to gain an edge over us. Is this possible? Sure. Likely? No.

There is data that points to the conspiracies conclusion, the problem is the gaps are filled with rumor and speculation. The second problem is anyone with credible evidence has an uphill battle in a field filled with cranks and nut jobs.

My advice? Start looking for evidence of somethings true name. Looking for some Illuminati ghost people use to describe something they can't fully understand is a tail chaser.

reply to post by Xtinguish

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while you are correct in your post, my intention is to make people think a bit before saying things like "the Illuminati is going to put us into Fema camps! AJ said so!" they might think for a moment about the fact that there is no such group anymore. So to use it like a noun is just flat our wrong. The NWO is an abstract term as well. At least for me. I can't see a group of 7 or 10 guys who meet in a building with a big NWO Headquarters logo on the front. There is no Schedule of events for the annual NWO/Illuminati picnic. I don't even know why it bothers me other than I know it's people who think they know, but have no clue. It just makes them sound like the guys the media is laughing at. You know, those wacky conspiracy nut jobs.
There are some very legitimate things in this world that need attention. IMHO this isn't one of them. The Illuminati should fall into the same category as Nessie and Bigfoot. (at least the modern day kind)