Iraqis rejoice as U.S. troops leave Baghdad

reply to post by Tank2/8


I want to second the big thank you for your service. I will not belittle that by labeling our troops as monsters like many are trying to do. Our military is necessary. I will never say differently. However, certain wars are not.

We may not agree on whether this war was legitimate or not but we will agree on recognizing the bravery of our soldiers.

Also, yes, I'm sure Iran is trying to destablize Iraq, their enemy. It's nothing new. However, what have we done to destablize Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan (and more) in that region? We are not innocent when it comes to this. We have overthrown the Iranian government in the past with propoganda and infiltration. That was successfully overthrown later on by the people. That was in my lifetime and we are looking at it again. It's a game that governments who feel they have the right to do this kind of crap will play. It's sad really. Because who ultimately pays the most for these little political games? The innocent civilians that get caught up in the fires that's who.

And the politicians continue to live high on the hog and scratch free while making millions on the backs of others. It's a sick game.

Originally posted by dariousg
My problem is that we still haven't truly justified our invasion which pretty much makes it illegal.

It's been justified over and over.
But since you say you missed the information -

- Saddam started a war against Kuwait. He lost.

- Part of the ceasefire that HE AGREED TO were certain UN resolutions.

- Failure to comply with those UN resolutions carried a consequence of force being used to make him comply. Saddam knew that.

- Saddam repeatedly broke UN resolutions.

- Therefore, force was used to make Iraq, who instigated and lost a war against Kuwait, comply with UN resolutions.

Remember resolution 1441? 687? 689?
The 'no fly zone'. The weapons inspectors that were thrown out?
The radar stations in the northern and southern no fly zones.

He was also stealing hundreds of millions of $$$ from the Oil for Food program as well as running an illegal oil pipeline from Iraq into Syria. And there were the hundreds of thousands who were murdered and tortured by Saddam (Hitler style).....

The case was made. Saddam made it. The invasion was justified by Saddams own failed war against Kuwait and his failing to uphold the UN resolutions he agreed to.

I think for America they made another big mistake ..like vietnam and some other countries...(not bashing the amercans here either...its the system that was in place already but thats another observation..)

The west should never have been there just one of those silly mistakes!!

The Islamic fundametalists will call it a victory..

But in reality neither side has won and another Islamic nation is on its knees! and the violence, infighting is escalting!

The west has thrown its hands up with these people ..if they are not fighting a bigger power..they fight amonst themselves.


While in America..the country has been brought to its knees..War costs, lives and money!!....and it makes people miserable!!

No winners in this game...!!!

But I reckon there is a plan..CHAOS!!

In my opinion...the Iraq war was not only about oil!..more a clash of cultures!!

My opinion!!

They aren't happy we left because they don't like us.

They are happy because our leaving the city is a sign that they are strong enough to deal with the situations on their own.

Try reading the article, nowhere in it did they say anything bad about the US forces or even attempt to might have hinted at it.

Read whole articles not just headlines.

reply to post by bismarcksea


You are quite wrong there. I was very much against the whole thing, for different reasons. I believed that it was the Saudis or North Koreans that needed to be dealt with. And I was right.

I am glad the troops are leaving, can't wait till they get back home and out of that crap-hole that they should have never been in to begin with. Then they Iraqis can go back to their old nationals pastimes of ethnic and religious violence without the presence of foreigners to pee in their pots.

Bring them home!

reply to post by ziggy1706


We could hope that troops get to go home for a while. Not that this is a bad thing, in reality the troops come home all the time. I would hope that lowering the troop numbers could mean more time at home. The military is on a tiresome rotation right now and our soldiers could us a little more time at home. As of right now they are home for a few months and then it's time to start training to go over again.

reply to post by dariousg


Thanks darious. I agree with you about the justifications we were beating ours drums to in 2002. It really made me sick when some of the truths started to emerge about what was and was not fact about our reason to invade and what other motivations bush and drevil had to push for it. At that point there was already about 3,000 soldiers that had lost their lives for it. I guarenty that the majority of willing soldiers where not there for bush. They where there to make the outcome of this war worth it to the people who have already fallen.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf



At the time, our forces should have been directed elsewhere.

Yes, bring them home!! Yes, yes.

It's about time somebody started trying to stop this mess. (I originally said "undo this mess", but, wait. It can't be undone. It's a mistake that we will always have to live with.

I think there is something we can all agree on, and that is we have our own messes to tend to. Right here.

And if the Iraqi people are celebrating, then fantastic! That's makes two (countries) of us.

Godspeed to our boys and girls. Come home safely.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by ladyinwaiting]

This is great news for everyone.

I don't think anyone is going to give credit where credit is due, but thank God
President Obama is partly responsible for this and maybe we can get a complete withdrawal out of Iraq and Afghanistan in the near future.

Originally posted by Styki
If things go well the next few months with coalition soldiers out of major Iraqi cities then I think everybody can start calling this a victory. We don't want to be in Iraq forever! The last few years have been all about building up Iraq to the point where they could handle things on their own. Who knows, maybe it's getting to the point where we need to dust off that ol "Mission Accomplished" sign. Only time can tell.

Couldn't agree more. It is a victory that the Iraqi's are now able to take care of themselves with a even semi-functioning democracy. The real test will be how the Iraqi's end up dealing with themselves ie Sunni / Shia.

Originally posted by Tank2/8
reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

 

At the time, our forces should have been directed elsewhere.

Absolutely. When Bush started all this Iraq hooplah, I couldn't believe it. At that time, Iraq was a broken, starving state that would be hard pressed launching a rock over the Iranian border, let alone becoming this menace to the world.

We should have been going after Saudi Arabia if we wanted to really stop terrorism, or North Korea, or, if we were that worried about WMD, Iran.

or we could have simply sent them all to Afghanistan to finish the job there. Iraq simply, from a security standpoint, was a waste of time and effort.

There were far more important and deadlier issues that our military should have been utilized to confront or deal with. Iraq has become one big COMMFU and has served to demonize our forces world wide, and now, we are only left with the hope that Iraq will form its own stable, healthy government on their own volition.

Originally posted by bismarcksea

Blah blah blah, the talking heads will keep talking while Iraq plunges itself into some sort of a civil war. Just watch!

There is a possibility of the Vietnam pullout or the collapse of Reza Pahlavi's pro-US regime in Iran repetition in the sense that lots of Iraqis marked as collaborators would seek asylum in the USA after Iraq becomes completely free country. So the chances of a civil war in Iraq are not that great in this respect, but the creation of a governing body in Iraq would be far from peaceful due to the long-standing ethnic conflicts that only authoritarian regime, such as the Saddam's version, could keep on the leash.

Originally posted by Tartarspoon
thank God President Obama is partly responsible for this

Um ... no. The TV News is reporting that this pullout at this time was planned way before Obama even took office. It was already on the military time table. Obama had nothing to do with it except to sit in his chair, go for the ride, and try not to screw it up too much.

maybe we can get a complete withdrawal out of Iraq and Afghanistan in the near future.

Um .... no. Obama is in office and he has already said he's RAMPING UP Afghanistan.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
When Bush started all this Iraq hooplah, I couldn't believe it. At that time, Iraq was a broken, starving state that would be hard pressed launching a rock over the Iranian border, let alone becoming this menace to the world.

- Saddam is the one who started the 'hooplah' by breaking the UN resolutions and the ceasefire agreements which carried a consequence of force being used and in which HE AGREED TO.

- Iraq wasn't a 'broken starving state' and it was doing more than just attempting to throw rocks. It was oil rich. It had the fourth largest army in the world as well as WMD and Nuclear Labs. Yes .. WMD. Ask the Kurds that managed to live. They'll tell you about the thousands who didn't.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
When Bush started all this Iraq hooplah, I couldn't believe it. At that time, Iraq was a broken, starving state that would be hard pressed launching a rock over the Iranian border, let alone becoming this menace to the world.

- Saddam is the one who started the 'hooplah' by breaking the UN resolutions and the ceasefire agreements which carried a consequence of force being used and in which HE AGREED TO.

- Iraq wasn't a 'broken starving state' and it was doing more than just attempting to throw rocks. It was oil rich. It had the fourth largest army in the world as well as WMD and Nuclear Labs. Yes .. WMD. Ask the Kurds that managed to live. They'll tell you about the thousands who didn't.

As far as i know it was the Germans who gave Saddam the biological weapons and built he's bunkers. And the french gave him mirages. So i guess the west including the US approved Saddam's weaponry.

The threat of Iraq making WMD is a big lie. The west gave it to him while he was fighting Iran.

How much does it take for anyone to realise that the US lied their buts of to attack Saddam. Or doesn't the truth matter anymore.

So US forces have withdrawn from Iraqi urban centers? Iraqis rejoice and so do the American people; now their sons, daughters, husbands, and wives get to ride on the freedom bird shortly. Oh you people, and how naive you are? You really think the US is going to leave Iraq? When have the United States really left any country we have been involved in militarily? I state some examples, Japan and Germany since World War 2 and Korea since the Korean War. Then we have bases peppered throughout the globe and they are vestiges left over from the Cold War.

I'll tell you what the President and elements of Dubya administration still in power and holdovers from the previous administration have up their sleeves; they want chaos and anarchy to return to Iraq. This gesture by the President is an attempt to temporarily subdue the masses here in America and Iraq. He wants people to see him as a good guy and that is why he extends this olive branch with hidden strings. Iraq is still a hornets nest.

They say "the mice will play when the cat (US) is away." The military know that the terrorists await an instance such as the one before us to continue the insurgency. All that money funneled into Iraq and we see the security forces ill-equipped to stage any combat operations without US support. The Iraqis have been given junk for weapons and equipment as well as two-bit training by military advisers. The training was designed for failure from the on set. You can call this the Middle Eastern merry-go around.

I truly believe the US wants the resurgence of violence so that our involvement will be indefinite. Remember Iraq still has all that oil that has been un-tapped at this juncture. Sure oil production has begun but not to full capacity yet. So folks, I am happy to hear that service members are returning to base but I wouldn't hold my breath for how long and if complete withdrawal is truly in the cards. I started a thread about my views on the subject earlier if any would like to take a look.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 30-6-2009 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by Jakes51
When have the United States really left any country we have been involved in militarily? I state some examples, Japan and Germany since World War 2 and Korea since the Korean War.

Japan and Germany waged war against the world. They were the instigators of those wars. They LOST the wars and therefore the forces that won the war had the right (and duty) to disarm them and stay to inforce it and to keep watch over them to make sure they didn't arm up again.

Now Japan and Germany want all the GIs there to spend their money and to keep the economy going. Local businesses want the $$$. Now a lot of why we are there are for economic reasons.

In Korea, the USA was invited to stay by the South Koreans in order to keep the Southern half of the country free from the communist Chinese.

Originally posted by spy66
The threat of Iraq making WMD is a big lie.

An estimated 175,000 Kurds in Iraq (depending on which source you use) are dead or went missing duirng the last Saddam years. Survivors tell of WMD attacks. Mass graves attest to the death squads.

Try telling the surviving Kurds that WMD are a big lie.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Jakes51
When have the United States really left any country we have been involved in militarily? I state some examples, Japan and Germany since World War 2 and Korea since the Korean War.

Japan and Germany waged war against the world. They were the instigators of those wars. They LOST the wars and therefore the forces that won the war had the right (and duty) to disarm them and stay to inforce it and to keep watch over them to make sure they didn't arm up again.

Now Japan and Germany want all the GIs there to spend their money and to keep the economy going. Local businesses want the $$$. Now a lot of why we are there are for economic reasons.

In Korea, the USA was invited to stay by the South Koreans in order to keep the Southern half of the country free from the communist Chinese.

What you have stated about Japan, Germany, and Korea I am well aware of, however; we have been in those outposts for decades upon decades. How long do we need to keep these forward operating bases open? Are we to keep the bases open forever? I think the Japanese and Germany are far beyond their views of the world during WWII. Had the US won the Vietnam War there would be bases there today. Our involvement in Iraqi will be indefinite and I truly believe that is what is in cards.