Bystander Effect, Woman Assaulted in Public.

reply to post by Republican08


I commend you! You did what you thought you could do at the moment. Dont' listen to others in this thread who tell/told you to do MORE next time. Your actions may have very well started a path to justice for that young mother and the baby. You took action when others didn't. You are a breath of fresh air! Be proud, walk tall!

reply to post by skyeyes


If someone can't stand for themselves, THEY have failed as humans. The only person somebody has that they can truly rely on 100% of the time is themselves. If they can't take care of themself, at the very least, they shouldn't burden those that can.

We've seen too many movies where there's always a hero or a happy ending. That's not the world we live in. Worry about yourself first. Once you are taken care of, then by all means go help the rest of the world but don't expect to change anything all that much.

You can't help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves. If they want to continue to be beaten, allow them to continue to be beaten and don't lose sleep over it. If they don't want change for themselves, you can't give it to them. They are only victims the first time they are beaten, after that, they are idiots.

There's no reason for a capable human to take on any extra baggage as their life is hard enough. If you want to help people, provide clothes or food to those that don't have it and want it. Don't waste it by giving it to someone who has no clothes because they destroyed it all or has no food because they threw it all away by choice is all I'm saying.

Help those that want to help themselves. In the not so distant future there will be 7 billion people in the world. Don't invest in someone who's going to throw their chances away. Give that help you feel obligated to provide to someone who not only wants to turn things around, but would do anything just for the chance, win or lose.

Not everyone is going to come out a winner (in fact most of the world won't) but you can't let the ones that have a shot miss out on it because you're too busy focusing on a loser thats happy being a loser. They've accepted their situation and have no desire to change it. Case Closed, Move on to someone you can reach.

For every so many people that hold pity party for themselves and think they are worthless, there are those special individuals that think "I deserve better than this" (not to be confused with "I am entitled to better than this"). They might not ultimately better themselves but atleast they'll die trying, which is more than you can say for most people.

edit: I don't want anyone to have the wrong impression that I might support violence against women and that women in abusive relationships "deserve it". If the first time a woman is abused by her spouse she takes up a golf club or similar object and says "You call the police because you're the one in trouble here", I'd be the very first to applaud in support. Just stand up for yourself. Don't passively wait for someone else to solve your problems. At the very least alert the authorities but by no means should you just let it slide time after time after time.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


So I see....and the elderly????? You'd just write them off the page eh? Oh I see, survival of the fittest/strongest. And at just what age would you condemn people to dust?-Logan Runner! Are you telling me that if you were placed in a situation where you saw some jerk beating on a woman who was holding a BABY, that you would just stand there and do nothing????? Say to yourself, oh she's not strong enough to stand up for herself so I'll just stand her while scumbag beats her to death, and then takes the BABY in the car and tosses it out the window while he's driving down the street. (Yhea, that really happened). C'mon get with it!!!

reply to post by skyeyes


First off, it wasn't some random guy walking down the street that just spontaneously started beating a random woman with a baby he didn't know (thats wrong in any situation and as such, you will never see me advocate such a thing or not condemn such an act immediately). Nor was it a random murder (or a murder at all) and there was no baby being tossed into impending doom ala the latest rambo movie. Don't twist my words or change the context of them .

She arrived on the scene in his vehicle. The OP lead on that they were a couple and that the baby was theirs (I for one believe such notes to be true under the impression that such things would be easy for anyone to deduce). Spousal abuse doesn't just pop-up oneday, it is a pattern and one I'm sure was present back when they were dating or whatnot. Instead of letting it get to that point, how about not hooking up with any violent thug in the first place? When does that option ever become irrational and not worth a second look over? Let's extend that advice to include: upon learning said person is a violent thug, don't procreate with them. Seems like easy enough steps to follow to significantly decrease your chances of being in this situation.

There are women that stand up to this environment and don't allow it to control their lives. They deserve praise and more attention than this "I'm a helpless victim" crowd which is stuck in a web of bad situations that they wove and refuse to get out. Bringing attention and support to those that refuse to fix this undermines the efforts of those that go against it. You help perpetuate the women are helpless maidens stereotype of early civilization.

I believe my stance on this is clear, if not, here is a brief summary: Abuse is wrong. Refusing to deal with said abuse is just as wrong. Passively accepting the situation until someone else fixes it for you is unresponsible (especially with a baby involved). Fix it so there are no bystanders for your problem. There have been and continue to be an increasing number of women that do not accept this environment because they know they deserve better and as such, pursue a better environment of living. They deserve more credit than anyone who fixes a situation for someone else because they won't do it themselves.

As for the elderly, if you are 108 and still full of life, go for it. Take that 83rd anniversary cruise or go sky-diving, more power to you. If you can't get around without unreasonable accomodation (wheelchairs and scooters are not unreasonable), stay at home and spend some time with the grand kids.

As for me, I refuse to reach a point where I can no longer fend for myself. If there is ever the need to implement an artificial means of sustaining my life, it best shoot rockets and have a gatling gun attachment. I believe in going out with a bang and not a fizzle. When I can no longer breathe, move, or think for myself, don't put me on a respirator, give me an automated wheelchair, or a computer that speaks for me, dig a hole and bury me. If that day were to come tomorrow, I hope someone has a shovel handy. It would be unfair to everyone else that would then have to provide for me.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


O.K.....So what would you do if you were the OP and were standing there witnessing the same exact thing??????

Originally posted by skyeyes
reply to post by Eitimzevinten

 

O.K.....So what would you do if you were the OP and were standing there witnessing the same exact thing??????

Before you answer this mate. Remember.

Your on probation for a felony, (in all honesty what I didn't wasn't really all that bad. Just did something we can't post on ATS hint hint) and you're coming to the end of probation, and you're still looking at a flat 5 years in prison.

Your at a store by yourself, all alone. Four of them, 1 of you. And they found a 12 year old strangled locally in mexican gang related violence this morning... and much more throughout the year...

First off, it wasn't some random guy walking down the street that just spontaneously started beating a random woman with a baby he didn't know (thats wrong in any situation and as such, you will never see me advocate such a thing or not condemn such an act immediately). Nor was it a random murder (or a murder at all) and there was no baby being tossed into impending doom ala the latest rambo movie. Don't twist my words or change the context of them

reply to post by Eitimzevinten
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Irrelevant, You have a situation where EVIL is being perpetrated on someone. Doesn't matter how she got there, the fact of the matter is that she is there in a situation that is dangerous to her and the baby. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO???? Are you going to stand there and try to rationalize to yourself that she may like where she is at, or she deserves it because she is with this idiot, or are you going to TAKE ACTION!!! Sometimes my friend, people need to be shown the light on the other side before they can step toward it. Many times all it takes is one person to show them. I can understand the situation would be a little different if the OP stated that "Yah, I see these two people in here almost daily. He's always fussing and beating on the lady for no reason. The cops have dealt with them many times. I don't know why she stays with that moron." As for the BABY OUT THE WINDOW issue, that happened where I live. The baby was found dead on the side of the road by a motorist. Wasn't trying to twist your words. Just trying to point out that it happens.

reply to post by skyeyes


Nothing. Not because I'd be afraid to, just because I wouldn't feel obligated to. I don't owe anybody anything. And, to be honest, seeing such a thing really wouldn't bother me that much. I'm not saying thats right or even an acceptable answer, I'm just saying thats me.

People feel this social pressure to give a response thats the "right response" yet those same people that give answers based on what they think people want to hear are the ones waiting for someone else to take the lead in a situation. They wait for reassurance that such a move is popular among those that surround them. The OP took the lead and thats commendable of anyone in a species that is known to specialize in following. They must've been raised right or they have far more compassion for their fellow man than I.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”. Edmund Burke

Remember!

reply to post by Republican08


That wouldn't sway me one way or the other. Anyone who said you should've went in there guns blazing is a fool and I'm 100% sure they wouldn't have done what they suggested. You did more than what could have been asked of anyone. Thats really all you can do. I'm just saying don't lose sleep over it. There's far worse conditions in the world that people didn't choose for themselves. Don't get bent out of shape because some people think you wimped out doing something they would not have done.

I love how about 90% of the posts in the ATS forums start out good, enlightening, and then devolve into personal attacks and name-calling. For a forum with alot of people who call for peace, love, truth, spiritual oneness, and all the like, it really is quite ironic,...and sad.

Nothing. Not because I'd be afraid to, just because I wouldn't feel obligated to. I don't owe anybody anything. And, to be honest, seeing such a thing really wouldn't bother me that much. I'm not saying thats right or even an acceptable answer, I'm just saying thats me.

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


I am saddened by your response. U R half dead inside. You can not consider what someone else is going to want to hear or think! I wonder what would have happned if all the soldiers who fought in WW2 said that exact thing. "I don't owe anybody anything." Did any of the 300 Spartans utter those same words before the marched off to fight the Persians?-"I don't owe anybody anything."

reply to post by skyeyes


They also resolved their own problems. I highly doubt any of them would sit around wondering if people thought what they were doing was "popular". They did it because they felt it was right regardless of who thought otherwise. They led. They didn't passively wait for an easy solution that they themselves would not have had to work at, they resolved it by themselves.

The woman in question of this whole thread is a bystander of her own situation. Thats what I am getting at. The woman that accepts the abuse and the people that don't report it are exactly the same. They are doing the exact same thing about the same event. To give them crap and her the benefit of the doubt is just backwards to me.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Eitimzevinten]