So What About These Pentagon Photos?

This photo is supposedly a picture of an American Airlines part taken at the pentagon on 9/11. It clearly shows an AA logo and part of a serial number. But what is the weird screen-like mesh seen covering all but the part? Could this be a fake?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5efa699a8240.jpg[/atsimg]

And this photo is supposedly of the landing gear at the pentagon.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/504175e6fefa.jpg[/atsimg]

These photos came from flight77.info...

I hadn't seen the AA one before, and maybe a couple of others at that site, so I thought I would ask and get some opinions here... Fakes? Plants? What???

Edit: to put text first, pics second...pics first messes up formatting...

[edit on Sun Jun 28th 2009 by TrueAmerican]

There were plane parts at the Pentagon, but we have never been shown enough parts to come close to accounting for a 250,000-pound 757. Which means they were likely planted.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I've already commented on pict #2 somewhere else. In the foreground is obviously part of the MLG wheel hub. It is the portion on the axle closest to the Gear Strut. The largish bumps you see are the housings for the brake pistons.

That photo is showing a large amount of other debris as well...it has already been bulldozed up against the wall.

Of course, in a normal crash investigation, this would not be done so haphazardly, as the reason for the investigation would still need to be determined. The 'cause' of this accident was plain to see.

As to the other debris, I see a portion of an engine fan component...could be a compressor stage, or a turbine stage.

First photo? Maybe it's my monitor, but I see the white nylon(?) mesh only in the upper right-hand corner. Do you know if they had recently seeded the lawn?

reply to post by TrueAmerican

The first image, the piece of scrap metal, has been shown before in lots of ATS threads going back at least more than a year.

Recently, GoodOlDave tried to claim that it was proof that there were parts found with serial numbers. If I had some time, I could search out a few more threads that have tried to pass off this image of scrap metal as 'evidence'.

Read the recent thread where GoodOlDave posted this image.

You will notice that when pressed with the following questions, Dave couldn't manage to come up with one answer.
Who took the image?
What camera was used to take the image?
Where is a source link to the original image?
Exactly where was the image taken?
What date and time was the image taken?

The image fails Swampfox's chain of custody criteria.

Dave failed to prove the part was genuine. I've not seen a single official story believer prove that part belongs to the alleged Flight AA77.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


That "mesh" you see, is the backside of a circuit board that was part of the lighting assembly.

Click here to learn more about this warning.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Hey, BoneZ...hold up a minute.

...but we have never been shown enough parts to come close to accounting for a 250,000-pound 757.

Firstly, you won't ever see all of the parts, every little piece, that you can weigh and expect to recreate the original weight. Ain't happenin', not then, and not in any airliner crash.

Secondly, 240,000 - 255,000 (depends on version -- medium range, or extended range) is the MAX Gross Take Off Weight (MTOW).

A typical Empty Weight is about 128,000 pounds. Every airplane is weighed, and from that normal equipment for operations is added (averages) to derive an EOW (empty Operating weight). This includes normal crew and luggage, emergency equipment, unusable fuel, and for passenger airplanes normal catering weights.

So, let's say round number, 130,000

Now, add fuel and payload. Washington to Los Angeles? Around 45,000 to 48,000 pounds. Passengers, 'Winter' weights are averaged...most airlines use between 165-170 (! Really, I kid you not !). And each checked bag, if any, is also assigned an average...37.5 pounds. (Don't ask me why...)

AAL77 had, less than 50 passengers? Round up, 8500 lbs. Baggage? Well, lots of business travelers, so carry ons (aren't counted) (!!!) still not kidding...but, playing advocate, let's say 50 bags. 1875 lbs.

SO...adding up....totals 188,375! The actual numbers are in the American Airlines database somewhere. ALL weight & balance computations are computerized, nowadays (and then too).

Which means they were likely planted.

Now, I hope you can see why that thought is in error.

Cheers!

Ed: I guess, really, for our purposes in this discussion fuel weight is irrelevant. But, FWIW, an average flight will see a combined fuel burn of 5,000 to 5,500 pounds/hour. Just to imagine what it weighed at impact, before all the fuel burned.

[edit on 6/28/0909 by weedwhacker]

Well, so I cropped it and enlarged it 400%.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ff2414eddf59.jpg[/atsimg]

So now we can see:
MOD5537 meaning Model 5537
S/N 1448 or 1446

Notice that the numbers appear WRITTEN in, and not typeset by any means. So right away I have to question this. Manufactured parts are usually typeset in some fashion, and not written in.

So wait a second.

How in the world is there even any debris left at the pentagon? Isn't jet fuel so hot that it can bring down 100 story sky scrapers?

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Yes, I too saw that they were handwritten. I wish I could tell you what the part was, but I can't. I was never a mechanic.

I will surmise that the letters 'MOD' are a modification reference of some sort, perhaps from an internal company-issued bulletin, or an FAA Advisory Circular or Airworthiness Directive (except the component doesn't look like a vital part, so probably not an AD).

Those numbers are just part of the paperwork required...the "chain of custody" that everyone ( ) insists on....I mean, the FAA insists on!

Ya know... just occured to me, even the BEVERAGE CARTS have Serial Numbers!!! Think about it -- they are damaged and repaired often, a broken one isn't just thrown away. Since it's an A/A label, I'm guessing it's just some internal inventory system number.

And even if there ARE part numbers with written S/N's or Model #'s, then at this point if someone can find out what part that is by looking it up in maintenance records or calling Boeing, then I guess we will have an answer as to whether that came off of AA Flight 77 or not. Or at least we can be a little more sure. Someone could have ripped that off a seat or armrest, or whatever from the real plane. It still doesn't prove much, but it would be curious to know.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Firstly, you won't ever see all of the parts, every little piece, that you can weigh and expect to recreate the original weight. Ain't happenin', not then, and not in any airliner crash.

You won't have every single tiny little piece, but you will have the bulk of the plane. Planes don't disappear or disintegrate into nothingness upon impact of something. Almost all of a plane will be present at a crash site (unless it's the ocean).

My point in my last post was the fact that there isn't enough plane wreckage at the Pentagon to come close to the bulk of a 757. Nobody can refute this fact.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Well, it sure looks a little bit like gold-anodized aluminum, so if Superman or Iron Man came along and ripped and crumpled it, then I'd have to agree with you!!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well but we still have no way of knowing this actually did come from a piece of wreckage photographed on the pentagon lawn. There is no copyright info or author info in the image- totally blank...

reply to post by _BoneZ_


I think we're at cross-purposes....because at those speeds the vast majority of the mass (the aluminum) will be fragmented into small shards.

And, here's something elase to chew on -- Personal experience here. In 1976 or -77, someone crashed one of our rented Cessna 150s whilst landing (he got out safely). It was at Hawthorne, California (airport code KHHR) and the airplane's N# was N8282F. It might still be in records, somewhere (but I doubt it) Another detail, airplane was manufactured in 1966.

Anyway, it caught fire....and this is AvGas, really just high octane gasoline...all that was left was a hardened puddle of aluminum, after it cooled. This, from about 25 gallons of fuel.....

Anyway, it caught fire (Ed.) stet, it's funny, actually, my error. Darn laptop!

[edit on 6/28/0909 by weedwhacker]

So the parts of the plane that survived happened to have the serial number still intact? Suspicious. Now why is that?

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Can't argue with that...but, still....how did it get mangled?

Killah29:

Ever hear about the little four-year old girl in Detroit? Only survivor, NorthWest Airlines, 1987. Odd things can happen, in crashes.

Ed. AND her S/N was intact.....

[edit on 6/28/0909 by weedwhacker]

here is the exif data, and I have not modified the original file in any way:

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act)

That part photo has been around for quite a while.

There have even been threads on ATS about it...

The most comprehensive thread about this particular photo resides on ~A-GASP!~.... JREF.

I believe the part in question is an emergency light housing that is found on the inside of the fuselage.

Several pilots and AA maintenence personnel comment in the JREF thread. Pretty informative if you are willing to handle reality.

Originally posted by The Killah29
So the parts of the plane that survived happened to have the serial number still intact? Suspicious. Now why is that?

I don't know.

Maybe you should ask Mohammed Atta's passport.

Hhahahha.

Thanks, folks, I'll be here all week. Be sure to tip your wait-staff.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Symbiote]