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Troops Arrest Honduran President

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posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Point well taken. Coup may not be the correct term. That remains to be seen though. It's looking more and more like Zavala will return to power. The UN voted for his return.

www.geo.tv...




posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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If a leader violates the Constitution, then he should be removed by those who swear to defend the Constitution.

Obama could technically be taken into custody and tried for treason. As could two-thirds of our current Congress.

When a tick gets his head imbedded deep, there won't be any "talking him out of it." You try to pull, and he digs in deeper.

This Obama is so delusional and narcissist, that I have a feeling this is all an effort to force a national catastrophe, enabling him to declare martial law at some point in the future and hold onto power.

Exactly how is your faith in elections going to hold up to that? There won't BE any elections.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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They kicked out the elected leader and put their own guy in.

Of course it's a coup.

Zelaya may indeed be a power-hungry demagogue in the Chavez mold, but as far as I can tell, the military in Honduras has no legal right to depose a leader, whether the courts or congress like what he's doing or not.

Something of this smells like a rightwing putsch, to me.

Apparently the Honduran ruling class's biggest issue with him was not his attempts at extending his term, but his raising the minimum wage from the slave-wage levels they had been at previously



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex
They kicked out the elected leader and put their own guy in.

Of course it's a coup.

Zelaya may indeed be a power-hungry demagogue in the Chavez mold, but as far as I can tell, the military in Honduras has no legal right to depose a leader, whether the courts or congress like what he's doing or not.

Something of this smells like a rightwing putsch, to me.

Apparently the Honduran ruling class's biggest issue with him was not his attempts at extending his term, but his raising the minimum wage from the slave-wage levels they had been at previously


The thing is the military didn't put their own guy in. In fact they were acting on behalf of the Supreme Court, Congress, and the Attorney General.

In the US if the Congress and Supreme Court had removed the President from office it would of been called an Impeachment not coup.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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Impeachment is a legal process, not Congress and the SCOTUS calling up the Pentagon and saying "hey get rid of this guy, he's giving the poor too many breaks and we're losing our slaves"


And yes, they handpicked a guy they liked, and declared him interim President without following any sort of Constitutional process.

I know you guys are all fantasizing that it's going to happen here, but it ain't in the cards.

The US military is not going to seize Obama and send him off to Gitmo



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex

I know you guys are all fantasizing that it's going to happen here, but it ain't in the cards.

The US military is not going to seize Obama and send him off to Gitmo


since you brought it up, what would be the appropriate process here when a president departs completely from constitutional law with the support of his advisors; legislative branch passes laws without reading them; judicial system picks and chooses cases to hear and avoids anything involving executive power; money supply is controlled totally and without accountability or examination by a private corporation; government is creating debt that is not repayable, for things not supported by taxpayers, without consent of taxpayers; press is almost totally controlled by government other than bloggers who are considered domestic terrorists? in case you lost track of my question, what would be the proper procedure for such a hypothetical situation?

impeachment is not possible because the legislative branch is complicit in the takeover of power by the executive. judicial can't and won't do anything. citizens have no power other than to elect officials, and if said officials don't represent citizens in government they have no one.

admittedly the military is an unlikely advocate since it is under the jurisdiction of the commander in chief. so what would be the proper procedure? hope the country survives until the next election and vote for one the "guardian council" pre-selected candidates? ha ha ha that will be useful.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex
Impeachment is a legal process, not Congress and the SCOTUS calling up the Pentagon and saying "hey get rid of this guy, he's giving the poor too many breaks and we're losing our slaves"


And yes, they handpicked a guy they liked, and declared him interim President without following any sort of Constitutional process.

I know you guys are all fantasizing that it's going to happen here, but it ain't in the cards.

The US military is not going to seize Obama and send him off to Gitmo


They didn't handpick squat.

Roberto Micheletti was head of the Congress, he was next in line and the Congress voted to approve him as president until January.

He is serving out the rest of former president Zelaya's term in office which lasts until Jan 27 next year. Micheletti has already said he won't be running for president in the elections. He is simply serving in a provisional position since Zelaya had failed in his duties as president.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Muppetus Galacticus
 


This is what I have been hearing. Mel, wanted to present to the people and let them vote on a change to the constitution that would allow a president to serve for two terms. This most likely would not been in place soon enough to allow for Mel to serve another term. Supposedly, the rich and elite in Honduras did not want to allow any president to be able to serve for 8 years and told Mel no. Mel went ahead and tried to allow the people to vote on it and the rich and elite in Honduras had him thrown out of the country based on that Mel was trying to change the constitution. This does not make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand why they would not want to let the people vote on something like this. Both conservatives and liberals would have a shot at 8 years in office. Mel must have been up to something else. Some in Honduras are pissed also because they said it is against their constitution to remove a president from office without a vote from the people. The rich and elite in Honduras also control all the media in that country, so, it is hard to say what the truth is.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by xmotex
Impeachment is a legal process, not Congress and the SCOTUS calling up the Pentagon and saying "hey get rid of this guy, he's giving the poor too many breaks and we're losing our slaves"


And yes, they handpicked a guy they liked, and declared him interim President without following any sort of Constitutional process.

I know you guys are all fantasizing that it's going to happen here, but it ain't in the cards.

The US military is not going to seize Obama and send him off to Gitmo


They didn't handpick squat.

Roberto Micheletti was head of the Congress, he was next in line and the Congress voted to approve him as president until January.

He is serving out the rest of former president Zelaya's term in office which lasts until Jan 27 next year. Micheletti has already said he won't be running for president in the elections. He is simply serving in a provisional position since Zelaya had failed in his duties as president.


I also heard that the interim government, rather than wait for the elections are to hold a special election to elect a successor so Micheletti is only an acting president since he was president of Congress and second in line. It appears at least they are following a democratic process at this point. The vote is still somewhat out on the process of exile ATM. Currently, I'm in agreement of his removal.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 05:27 AM
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It's still not over yet as Zelaya has said he will return to the country today after the OAS suspended Honduras last night, so expect things to heat up today. Honduras needs to be careful how they deal with this as the Argentine President is reportedly traveling with Zelaya, and if things do kick off they need to be absolutely sure he isn't bang in the middle of it all.

www.kesq.com...

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (AP) - The recent political turmoil in Honduras may come to a head today if ousted President Manuel Zelaya returns as he says he will. Zelaya is urging supporters to turn up at the airport as part of his push to regain his office.


www.newsobserver.com...

WASHINGTON — The Organization of American States voted late Saturday to suspend Honduras from the group over the military ouster of President Manuel Zelaya, who minutes later vowed to return to his country Sunday despite warnings it would be too dangerous.

The group voted 33 to 0 just before midnight to bar Honduras immediately, saying the ouster of Zelaya had created an "unconstitutional alteration of the democratic order.''

Earlier, the group's secretary general, Jose Miguel Insulza, reported that he'd failed to broker a deal for Zelaya's return during a one-day visit to Honduras.


www.greenleft.org.au...

The key question leading up to the coup was whether to hold a referendum on June 28 — as Zelaya wanted — on organising an assembly to re-write the country’s constitution.

Many major news outlets in the US said an impetus for the coup was Zelaya’s plans for a vote to allow him to extend his term in office. However, the actual ballot question was to be: “Do you agree that, during the general elections of November 2009 there should be a fourth ballot to decide whether to hold a Constituent National Assembly that will approve a new political constitution?”

Nations across Latin America, including Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador, have recently re-written their constitutions. These documents enshrined new rights for marginalised people and protected the nations’ economies from the destabilising effects of free trade and corporate looting.

In Honduras on June 10, members of teacher, student, indigenous and union groups marched to demand that Congress back the referendum on the constitution, chanting, “The people, aware, defend the Constituent [Assembly]”.

The Honduran Front of Teachers Organisations (FOM), with some 48,000 members, also supported the referendum. FOM leader Eulogio Chavez asked teachers to organise the referendum in schools, the Weekly News Update on the Americas said on June 28.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by Muppetus Galacticus
 


Thanks for update. The lack of reporting in the US msm re the nature of the referendum and this exile is proof of either lack of mental acuity, ignorance, or effeteness. Of course, they've had decades now to perfect this.

Zelaya indeed violated his constitution, by calling for the ref in that manner. However, without a clear process for removal, the military fell back on their historical means of removing a pres. (IMO the govt may have violated the cons again in their efforts after Zelaya's ouster.) This is democracy with a fist and club.

The elites still rule. Would the citizens have been able to petition their National Congress for this referendum?

Another good read

The US msm will show over and over an Iranian middle class taking to the streets. When those with less (economic) power take to the streets, there is less voice heard through msm.


The idea that there is some kind of good/evil distinction, with socialism and global capitalism on one side or the other, is pure ideological nonsense. For most people in Latin America, both are rather poor choices involving foreign manipulation and false promises of prosperity. In any case, Mr Zelaya is now caught between ideologies, and viewed with suspicion by left and right alike.

from above source

While this region has made govt changes for the better over the last two decade, there will be years of struggle ahead to effect the economic change for every citizen. US citizens note that change is not overnight but a continuing struggle forward. Change is not a reality show where it begins at a certain time and ends an hour later.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:37 PM
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Some big goings on right now,

Here are some snippits of info,


BreakingNewsURGENT -- A Venezuelan jet carrying ousted Honduran president Zelaya is flying over Tegucigalpa International Airport, live pictures show.



BreakingNewsAir traffic controller warns ousted Honduran President Zelaya's aircraft could be intercepted if it attempts to land.



Pilot of plane carrying ousted Honduran President Zelaya says it is now flying to El Salvador, not Managua, Nicaragua.



Zelaya speaking to a tv channel live from his plane as it circles the airport..madness


And he is on the phone from the plane saying


"I denounce this to the international community," ousted Honduran president Zelaya says on phone from plane



Ousted President Zelaya says he will now look for other ways to return to Honduras after military blocked airport runway.



Zelaya says vehicles on runway prevented landing, says it could have caused plane to crash. "If I could parachute to the ground I would."


[edit on 5-7-2009 by asala]

[edit on 5-7-2009 by asala]



posted on Jul, 7 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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www.cbc.ca...

Costa Rican President Oscar Arias will serve as international mediator in the Honduran political crisis, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton announced Tuesday.

"He is the natural person to assume this role," she told reporters at the State Department in Washington after meeting privately with ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya.

"I reiterated to [Zelaya] that the United States supports the restoration of the democratic, constitutional order in Honduras," Clinton said.

Both Zelaya and interim Honduran President Roberto Micheletti have agreed to Arias — whom Clinton spoke to earlier Tuesday — acting as mediator from Costa Rica, not in Honduras, she said.

Arias won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1987 for helping broker an end to Central America's civil wars.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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www.reuters.com...

TEGUCIGALPA (Reuters) - Honduran interim leader Roberto Micheletti said on Sunday ousted president Manuel Zelaya would not be allowed to return to power under any circumstances but could be granted an amnesty if he comes home quietly to face justice.

Micheletti's overture was the first conciliatory offer from the interim authorities to try to solve the worst crisis in Central America since the Cold War, although Zelaya insists on being reinstated and has vowed to return and defy the interim government.

"If he comes peacefully first to appear before the authorities ... I don't have any problem (with an amnesty for him)," Micheletti told Reuters in an exclusive interview at the presidential palace in Tegucigalpa in a room guarded by five heavily-armed soldiers.

"We have to talk to the Supreme Court and consult with the State Attorney of the Republic to see what possibilities there are of that nature," he added. "But I think that we need to seek peace, and that is part of it."


www.google.com...

MANAGUA (AFP) — Ousted Honduran leader Manuel Zelaya has warned the interim government that deposed him in a coup it must relinquish power within the week or face unspecified repercussions.

"We are giving an ultimatum to the coup regime that by our next meeting at the latest, to be held this week in San Jose, Costa Rica, they comply with the mandates expressed by international organizations and the constitution of Honduras" demanding his immediate restitution, Zelaya told reporters Monday at the Honduran embassy in Nicaragua's capital Managua.

Mediation efforts initiated last week in San Jose "will be considered a failure" and "we will proceed with other measures," he added, if interim leader Roberto Micheletti and his two-week-old administration continue to delay Zelaya's return to the helm of the Honduran government.


www.france24.com...

UN chief Ban Ki-moon has agreed to assist Costa Rican President Oscar Arias in his bid to mediate an end the political standoff in Honduras, his spokeswoman said Monday.

Michele Montas said in a statement that the UN secretary general spoke to Arias Monday and "conveyed his support for President Arias' mediation efforts to resolve the political crisis in Honduras."

"The Secretary General has offered technical assistance for the mediation and agreed to work together with President Arias to help the parties reach an agreement," the statement noted.

It added that Ban was "confident that an open dialogue and international support will help resolve the current crisis."



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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Update time as things look to heat up once more. Although they are talking about letting Zelaya continue to be President until this years' election (third link).

www.google.com...

TEGUCIGALPA — Caracas has angrily rejected what it called an "absurd" demand from Honduras's de facto government that gave Venezuelan diplomats until Friday to leave the country.

Caracas swiftly rejected an expulsion order that came Tuesday, saying it was issued by leaders of an illegitimate government that ousted President Manuel Zelaya in a coup late last month.

The Central American nation earlier accused President Hugo Chavez's Venezuela of threatening to use force and meddling in its internal affairs, telling diplomats they had 72 hours to leave the country.

In a statement, Venezuela's foreign ministry said it would not recognize an "absurd communication" from "the illegitimate authorities" in Honduras.

The toughened Honduran stance came after negotiations with Zelaya hit deadlock and amid international pressure for his reinstatement.


www.presstv.ir...

The European Union halts budgetary aid to Honduras after coup leaders fail to reach a deal with ousted President Manuel Zelaya.

The EU commission on Monday suspended its $93 million budgetary aid to the Central American country as weekend mediation talks in Costa Rica bore no useful fruit and failed to resolve the crisis in Honduras.

"I very much regret that it has not been possible to this date to arrive at a mutually agreeable solution to the Honduran crisis," EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner said in a statement, Reuters reported.

"In view of the circumstances, I have taken the difficult decision to suspend all budgetary support payments," she said.


www.tampabay.com...

WASHINGTON — A delegation representing the leader of the de facto government of Honduras, Roberto Micheletti, has proposed to end the political crisis that has divided the country by allowing the ousted president, Manuel Zelaya, to return to power under certain conditions.

People close to the talks aimed at resolving the crisis cautioned that while the proposal had been signed by Micheletti's foreign minister, Carlos Lopez Contreras, it was still a work in progress. It had not been fully endorsed by Micheletti himself, they said.

According to a draft of the proposal, provided to the New York Times by U.S. congressional staff members and confirmed by people close to the talks, Micheletti's delegation has proposed that the country's next presidential election, scheduled for Nov. 29, be pushed ahead by one month and that the Honduran armed forces be assigned to guarantee the security and transparency of the voting. The draft would also prevent Zelaya from seeking constitutional changes that would allow him to run for a second term.

The plan also calls for a truth commission to investigate the acts that led to Zelaya's removal, and the establishment of an international commission to monitor the elections.

The most significant point in the proposal calls for Zelaya to resume the presidency until the end of his mandate in January. On June 28, troops rousted Zelaya out of bed and put him on a plane that left the country.


english.ntdtv.com...

Xiomara Castro de Zelaya, wife of ousted President Manuel Zelaya, is hopeful that her husband will return home.

[Xiomara Castro de Zelaya, Wife of President Manuel Zelaya]: "The truth is that as of now there has been no statement. When the 72 hours are up, the President will notify us how he will arrive."

Mrs. Zelaya is referring to the 72 hours requested by Costa Rico's President Oscar Arias before staging a return to Honduras from exile in Nicaragua.


www.timesonline.co.uk...

The ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya has warned that an “internal resistance” was being organised as he prepares to return to the country from exile next weekend.

Mr Zelaya’s comments on Sunday came after he failed to reach an agreement with the rival de facto government to solve the country's political crisis.

"Next weekend we will have all the necessary activities [in place] for my return, as laid out in the law and the constitution and international mandates," Mr Zelaya told reporters in the Nicaraguan capital of Managua, where he was been in exile.


[edit on 22/7/2009 by Muppetus Galacticus]



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