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Troops Arrest Honduran President

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posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife

It wasn't a coup, the president was arrested and exiled because he broke the law. ...Zelaya broke the law, and was dealt with accordingly.


Are the facts are as you say? or was Zelaya acting
within the law in attempting to take an issue to people?

He maybe a "puppet" of Chavez, but isn't that for the
people to determine for themselves?

Who exactly is in violation of the Constitution? Is it within
the law for the military to force the President into exile?

No, it is not. Perhaps both actions were a violation of
the Constitution, but one was democracy, one was not.

You said "...the president was arrested and exiled because
he broke the law..." It would actually be more correct to say
that the military broke the law (forcing the president into
exile) because they feared the outcome if people would
be given a voice.

"Zelaya broke the law, and was dealt with accordingly."

Maybe according to "the law" of the jungle, but not according
to the Law of the Land as defined by the Constitution. If you
favor the law of the jungle, then I guess your okay want the
revolution that will surely follow.

Regarding the definition of coup d'etat, here are the first
two that pulled-up in a quick search:

A) "a sudden and decisive change of government illegally or by force"

or

B) "the sudden, unconstitutional deposition of a legitimate government, by a small group of usurpers."

Both would describe the action in Honduras.

This was a sudden change by force and it could very
well be illegal. If our President was removed from
office by the military it certainly would be illegal.
I think there is good reason to think this action
in Honduras was just a illegal. If not, then why
did they create a fake resignation letter?







[edit on 29-6-2009 by wasaka]




posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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obama is not naive, he knows exactly what he is doing. with all this talk about returning iran and honduras to constitutional law, our own president is taking us farther and farther away from the constitution of the US.

when are other world leaders going to ask for, even demand, that the US government return to constitutional law? it's a farce for this goverment to talk to anybody else about rogue activity.

we had an election but it didn't bring about the will of the people because honest candidates weren't offered. not much different than the iran situation where the guardian council chose the candidates.

our country is financially unstable and our government no longer represents the will of the people. time for other countries to start calling for a return to lawlful government int the us. how different are we really than honduras?



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by wutone

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
If the Honduras military is protecting the Honduras Constitution that's AWESOME! That's their job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And hopefully our U.S. Military shows some of the pride and honor that the Honduran military have for their country and start protecting our Constitution.


There have been a few threads on ATS in the last week or so bragging about how the US military is there to protect the US constitution. Where are those posters now



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 12:32 AM
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The enemies of the US citizens that are passing laws undercover are the same evil doers that control Britain, Israel, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, US, South America, Mexico and most of Europe.
IRAN, VENEZUELA and NORTH KOREA want nothing to do with the NEW WORLD ORDER..Now I will admit that Ping Pong from North Korea has to go..BUT that is for the North Koreans to do themselves.
So why are we hating on them??? Why do you think SHTF everywhere???
Because they can't control the world when some countries want no part of their club!!
So these evil doers start trouble..GOD help us when these psychopaths get control of the planet.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Wideawake08]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by wasaka
......................
Both would describe the action in Honduras.

This was a sudden change by force and it could very
well be illegal. If our President was removed from
office by the military it certainly would be illegal.
I think there is good reason to think this action
in Honduras was just a illegal. If not, then why
did they create a fake resignation letter?


It is not, people like you need to read and understand the Constitution. If a government becomes dictatorial and tries to supplant the Constitution, that government can be forced out. It is in the Constitution.

The Courts in Honduras deemed the actions of the Marxist president as UnConstitutional, hence he had to be removed before he obtained more power...

Learn your history and learn your Constitution because you have shown to be ignorant of it.

In Honduras it is the same thing....

BTW, in case you haven't figured it out yet, the Obama administration has been implementing dictatorial SOCIALIST laws, and now it is saying they will only back the Marxist EX-president of Honduras....



[edit on 29-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by Wideawake08
 



Oh please...Chavez sent the military AGAINST HIS OWN PEOPLE, and several Venezuelans were killed.

Chavez implemented the Avila plan, which is a mobilization of the military to fight against the people, he was recorded by a Venezuelan officer giving the orders to implement this plan, and this same plan has been used by dictators in Venezuela before...

Chavez is a Communist, and as Communists always do, they take away the power from the oposition as much as possible.

Chavez, and the rest of the Marxists/Communist leaders in Latin America don't give a crap about the people. They oly care about obtaining total control over their countries...



[edit on 29-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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I can guarantee that this did not happen without the sate departments and the President's approval,otherwise why would the Honduran military and congress even try this if they did not have the US governments support?

[edit on 043030p://3426 by mike dangerously]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by earlywatcher
obama is not naive, he knows exactly what he is doing. with all this talk about returning iran and honduras to constitutional law, our own president is taking us farther and farther away from the constitution of the US.

when are other world leaders going to ask for, even demand, that the US government return to constitutional law? it's a farce for this goverment to talk to anybody else about rogue activity.

we had an election but it didn't bring about the will of the people because honest candidates weren't offered. not much different than the iran situation where the guardian council chose the candidates.

our country is financially unstable and our government no longer represents the will of the people. time for other countries to start calling for a return to lawlful government int the us. how different are we really than honduras?




posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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People, take heed, the same thing that is occurring in Honduras and Iran is not that much different to what is happening in our country today. Czars being appointed without congressional approval or oversight (not that they would do a good job in policing the czars), congress voting and approving bills that have not been read or fully understood, just to mention a few of the strange things happening. The repercussions of many of these things may not be able to be "undone". Use your voice as a citizen of this country and let your congressman and senators that enough is enough.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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This is all very interesting. Removing him from office for trying to overturn the constitution? Definitely worth watching. Sends a message, doesn't it? No wonder the Western and south American leaders are so worried. Especially those in Washington.

And Chavez is threatening military action? Talk about a hypocrite. It isn't his damned country, he shopuld stay the hell out. isn't that what everyone tells the U.S.: mind thine own biz?

Great advice. Chavez should take it.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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I never thought I'd see so many people on ATS supporting a military coup


Talk about a bunch of people that should know better.

While Zelaya does seem like a bit of a clownish demagogue in the Chavez mold, armies overthrowing democratically elected leaders are usually considered a bad thing, I am told...

Just about every other democratically elected .gov in Latin America seems to agree:


Organization of American States: The OAS called for an emergency meeting on Sunday, where it approved a resolution demanding "the immediate, safe and unconditional return of the constitutional president, Manuel Zelaya."Secretary-General José Miguel Insulza called the situation "a military coup."



Argentina: Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner said: "I'm deeply worried about the situation in Honduras. It reminds us of the worst years in Latin America's history. We will demand that the OAS (Organization of American States) fully comply with the democratic charter that requires unconditional respect for democracy and, above all, the restoration of the Honduran president. I do not hesitate to call this a return to barbarity. All countries of the continent and the entire international community should demand the return of the democratically elected president."



Brazil: Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva condemned Honduras military coup, considering it "unacceptable",[52] and assured that his peer Jose Manuel Zelaya must return back to his post as the only condition to keep relations with this country[53]. Celso Amorim, the Brazilian Minister of External Relations issued a press release "strongly condemning the military action that resulted in the ousting of the President of Honduras," urging for his "immediate and unconditional return to power," and expressing "solidarity with the Honduran people." [54] the Brazilian ambassador in Honduras, who was on vacation in Brazil, was ordered not to return to Honduras.



Costa Rica: In a joint press conference with Manual Zelaya, Costa Rican President Óscar Arias condemned the coup and said that it "indicates that democracy in Latin America and its institutions are fragile and vulnerable". Arias also said that Zelaya was personally in "good condition" and that Costa Rica was offering Zelaya "all the courtesies that he deserves".



Peru: José García Belaúnde, the Foreign Minister of Peru, said that his government "strongly condemns" the coup and will push for the re-establishment of democracy in Honduras.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 08:23 PM
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Yay! Obama's first 'coup'.... not as useless as he looks obviously.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
I just wanted to point out that if our government was really sincere with their "concern" about the situation in Iran, surely they will be concerned about this as well right? Shouldn't they be trying to intervene here and pass some sensational legislation to feign, I mean show their support?


that is why of course were in iraq still right? to lend a "helping" hand
ha!



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 


don't really know the honduran constitution all that intimately. do know that present US regime has departed US constitution in many ways and has professed intention to continue in this vein. it seems unlikely that our military will try to return the US government to constitutional law. do you have any practical suggestions as to how to accomplish that?

we like to think that the US is special and different, but obama insists that it isn't. he apologizes worldwide for our our past. he agrees with the values of chavez and castro. we are quickly turning into a banana republic. no law. no accountability. our government is no longer representative of the people. it is a regime where lawmakers obey the leader to protect themselves. we the taxpayers have no way to stop the from promising our money to borrow money, to pay global taxes.

personally i want more from my government. not a nanny state, but a protector of freedom.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 


I am glad, xmotex, to live in a country where my founding fathers set up a system whereby every four years I vote, go to the polls, to avoid a coup. Voting is the equivalent of a bloodless revolution. My military sheds their blood to defend this right.

If I think my president needs to be removed from office before his time, I may petition my elected representative for a trial and impeachment. Sometimes this process gets heated, especially if the elected officials take it upon themselves to do this on their own.

I wish more of my fellow citizens would personally let their elected representatives know their opinions and wishes. I like to email them, or even call their office. I wish more of my fellow citizens would vote. I vote in every election, I wish more would do the same.

I place my hand over my heart and pledge allegiance to my country while facing my flag at various public functions. I fly my flag and hum patriotic songs. Sometimes my fellow citizens and I disagree, but that is another right my military dies for. I thank God that I get to live here. I am proud to live in the United States of America.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 12:47 AM
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We're lucky to live in a country where the military has a long tradition of respecting the rule of law and the chain of command.

IMO the Honduran military seems to have done the wrong thing for arguably good reasons.

Honduras was a military dictatorship until 1982, nobody wants the Honduran Republic to fall apart.



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by xmotex
We're lucky to live in a country where the military has a long tradition of respecting the rule of law and the chain of command.

IMO the Honduran military seems to have done the wrong thing for arguably good reasons.

Honduras was a military dictatorship until 1982, nobody wants the Honduran Republic to fall apart.


Really? and how about the Honduran president respecting the Honduran Constitution, instead of trying to rewrite it?...

Chavez did it, alongside his Chavistas. Millions of Venezuelans protested and nothing happened. Chavez just set his dogs upon the people by implementing the Avila plan.

IMO the Honduran courts, alongside most of the government, and military did the right thing. They are upholding and defending their Constitution, instead of allowing another Marxist to change the country and transform it into another Socialist dictatorship....



posted on Jun, 30 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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The United States has brought military to train here and offered support/hardware, so maybe the next logical step would be to offer the same schooling, support, services for those in government/public service, to learn how to govern and run a democratic gov. (Socialism is an economic system, not a system of government.) Maybe that's why the president was unceremoniously dumped in Costa Rica, to literally learn a lesson.

Maybe such lessons would go further to help overcome the legacy of white, European family rule, where the leaders line their pockets with the nation's wealth with help from the military. Of course, sometimes the military stepped in to perform the function of ruling.

I confess I have not paid attention to this area for awhile, outside of sweatshops and pesticides. I can remember when the National Guard used to spend their weeks down there, building hospitals and runways, ostensibly for the people. Turned out those runways came in handy for the low intensity conflicts the US engaged in in Nicaragua and El Salvador.



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 07:40 AM
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This just gets curiouser and curiouser. It seems that CIA trained operatives were involved in the coup at a high level.


www.southernstudies.org...

And the USA knew the coup was coming.

mrzine.monthlyreview.org...

This report claims the Cuban, Venezuelan, and Nicaraguan Ambassadors to Honduras were kidnapped, though I’ve seen nothing else on it.

www.venezuelanalysis.com...

There’s even a report that the coup has stalled and that Zelaya is planning a return. There sure is a lot of muddying of the internet waters going on here, but I think I may have found the real reason for the coup.

Protecting the drug trade, well known to be a big CIA revenue source.

www.cato-at-liberty.org...

This would also explain the apparent contradiction (no pun intended) between CIA actions and Obama’s stated positions vis-a-vis Zelaya.

Is it possible that this is a CIA coup that was beyond Obama’s ‘need to know’?



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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Why do people keep calling this a coup?

If this had been a real coup, the civilian government would have been dissolved and a military junta would have came to power.

examples of real military coups:

Argentina 1943, 1955, 1966, 1976
Venezuela 1948, 1958
Egypt 1952
Guatemala 1954
Colombia 1957
Iraq 1958
Pakistan 1958, 1970, 1977, 1999,
France (yes that's France)1958
Turkey 1960, 1980,
South Korea 1961, 1979
Dominican Republic 1962
Burma 1962, 1988
South Vietnam 1964
Algeria 1965
Greece 1967, 1973
Panama 1968
Peru 1968
Libya 1969
Brazil 1969
Syria 1970
Uganda 1971, 1985
Chile 1973
Portugal 1973
Cyprus 1974
Ethiopia 1974
Nigeria 1975, 1983, 1985,
Bolivia 1980
Poland 1981
Haiti 1991
Thailand 1991, 2006,
Georgia 1991

In each one of these cases, military leaders take power or put someone in power and they do it without direction from any branch of government.

In Honduras the military did not take power and it acted at the behest of the other branches of government. It wasn't a coup of any kind, CIA or otherwise.

It was the military doing its job.



[edit on 1/7/09 by MikeboydUS]



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