Red meat and dairy cause cancer growth?

Actually dairy is not good for our system for longer than early childhood where it's a natural source of protein and fats, both needed for a young body to grow.
As we get older, our system becomes more regid and starts demanding more heavy sources of protein and fats. Red meat would for that period be good. However as any other machine our body will over time deterioate and a more gentle treatment of it is necessary. So in the latter part of life fish, which contains a different form of fat, is best for the body.

The cancer thing has been known for quite some thing, but the ignorant caveman population, continues to flush down the red meat... most of the time the argument I hear is "they are entitled to it" or "I'm a real man". Gotte be the biggest bullcrap reasons I've heard. Yeah, you're a man alright... a man with a failing heart and cancer infesting every organ of your body. It's hard to feel pity with those types.

If you do happen to chuck down a lot of dairy, be sure to eat some pineapple as well. Pineapple contains some enzymes that help the body process the dairy product. For some people this could actually help a great deal. But keep in mind. You don't HAVE to drink ½ a gallon of milk each day.

Talking about protein. The food that contains the most is actually chicken, then pork. Mind you, I don't mean the kind that comes in buckets deepfried. Stick to the kind you cook on your nonstick pan without any grease.

reply to post by STFUPPERCUTTER

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If you choose not to eat meat due to your "love" for animals, fine, but it doesn't change the fact that the body prefers fat and protein over carbs for fuel. Your comments have been pointless and factually lacking. I would suggest doing some research before posting in a forum of which deals with actual science; otherwise, the Skunk Works forum would be glad to have you.

-Dev

[edit on 13-7-2009 by DevolutionEvolvd]

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

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Don't know where you get your info but your severely misguided my friend.

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...
Study shows high fat diet is more likely to cause diabetes

patient-research.elsevier.com...
Flavanols in fruit stop glycation and AGE product accumulation

www.wcs.edu...
heres your "facts"

Can you explain to me how a vegetable is not a carbohydrate?
When i say carbs I'm refering to a food thats calories are comprised of mainly carbs, i.e. fruits. Vegetables contain carbs but nothing compared to sweet fruits

Don't get why you keep bringing up that carbs store as fat but neglect to also mention that they turn back into carbs when the body needs energy... Some people can't get fruit? like who? I suggest if your not able to grow, find or buy fruit to move somwhere you can! Can you please stop trying to misguide people now?

[edit on 13-7-2009 by Rawhemp]

Of course you don't, that's why I'm here denying ignorance for you.




First of all, the researchers never mentioned diabetes being caused by high fat diets. In fact, the data doesn't even suggest that. Be careful, knowingly posting false information is against T&C on these boards.

Secondly, the conclusion did suggest that, "Among intensively treated patients with type 1 diabetes, diets higher in fat and saturated fat and lower in carbohydrate are associated with worse glycemic control." I'm sorry, the diets consumed by the subjects in this study were far from low carb. It amazes me sometimes how even researchers can't see what's right under their noses. You can't have glycemic control when your carbohydrate intake is over 40%.

Here's where I get my information from:
The case for low carbohydrate diets in diabetes management
A low-carbohydrate diet may prevent end-stage renal failure in type 2 diabetes. A case report
A low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet to treat type 2 diabetes
Dietary carbohydrate restriction in type 2 diabetes mellitus and
metabolic syndrome: time for a critical appraisal
Low-carbohydrate diet in type 2 diabetes: stable improvement of bodyweight and glycemic-control during 44 months follow-up
Clinical Experience of a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet: Effect on Diabetes Mellitus
“A Pilot Trial of a Low-Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes”
The Effects of a Low-Carbohydrate Regimen on Glycemic Control and Serum Lipids in Diabetes Mellitus
“Glycemic index, glycemic load, and risk of type 2 diabetes”
“Gestational diabetes; can a low glycemic index diet reduce the need for insulin? A randomized trial”



You should probably read your sources before making assumptions as to their contents. From your source:



It says "can inhibit early glycation", it doesn't suggest that flavanols completely stop glycation and AGE's.



What is this? You, and I, have no idea who said it what their basing these assumptions on.



Vegetables are carbohydrates.



I neglect it cause it's not true. Was my post from before too hard to understand?



Can you please stop the false accusations? I'm providing facts. You're the one providing misdirection, my friend, by linking to sources, proclaiming your fabrication as truth and then pointing to the source as evidence, yet there is none in the links provided.

-Dev


[edit on 13-7-2009 by DevolutionEvolvd]

Im done with you devolution, you tell me not to post subjective opinions and then you go and post them. All your articles are all subjective. You deny stuff that isnt true because you say it isn't, carbs turn into fats then turn back into carbs, seriously dude get a clue its proven. Still think our bodys main source of fuel is fats? Your one of these low carb retards who reads acouple studys and articles and thinks they know everything. If you wanna have your low carb, meat/fat filled diet go for it but don't push your low carb agenda so you can feel good about your toxic lifestyle. you wanna be healthy, have energy and be fit you need lots and lots of fresh plants food and lots of carbs, been proven over and over you can't say it hasn't. Don't get why you keep saying vegetables are a carb? When you say vegetable do you mean "greens" or starchy ass potatos/carrots etc.? If your refering to the later your right, i tend to think "greens" when people say vegetable as i don't eat starchy foods

Let's have a look at the definition of the word MURDER

www.dictionary.net...




I shall assume that you are referring to definition "2" from the above cited example.

I have for many years found it to be hypocritical in the extreme how some vegetarians presume to cast pious aspersions from their supposed "tower of virtue" concerning the act of taking a life for the purpose of furthering life, i.e. "eating"

Obviously, you possess the infallible moral high ground to determine the lifeforms that are suitable for killing for the purpose of consuming.

My oh my, aren't we the cavalier harbinger of death.

Last time I checked, plants also enjoy the benefits of a "live" existence.

It seems you have no problem with being a mass "vegetative" murderer. Evidently your only purpose is to further the "reign of terror" that you have chosen to visit upon all of the innocent defenseless entities whose only crime is that they contain chlorophyll.

To hell with them eh???

Kill em all, let God sort em out, RIGHT????

I suppose that you harbor a "special" hatred for the vile Venus Fly Trap.

YouTube Link

How DARE that plant be so "INSENSITIVE" to the needs of the sweet little frog!!!!!!!!!!

And dare we not take pause to consider the perpetual "genocide" that is exacted upon the millions of bacteria and viruses that are being MURDERED by your immune systems as we sit here now.

OH THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

How about we humans try to think things through a bit more and try to realize that ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS but physical death IS AND SHALL REMAIN a necessary truth in regards to nutritional sustenance.

Personally, I ALWAYS am very respectful of the LIFE that I take so that I may have life.

Be it animal or plant.........

For your consideration...

www.telegraph.co.uk...


www.medicalnewstoday.com...

but
its
murder.
and its killing you too.
i tinhk if most of you had any idea how the cow becomes a cheesburger you would change your opinon fairly quickly.
im wondering jsut how many of you have visited an abbatior or even watched any documentaries aobut the meat industry, and the ridiculous amount of chemical injections in the food your eating.

Please explain? I'm not posting opinions, I'm posting facts and data, unlike your most recent post.



I deny stuff that isn't true because it's just that, not true, and I've provided data throughout the thread to support my position. Not just one or two studies, mind you.



Weren't you just accusing me of doing this very thing? Please, provide some sources, data or something other than your misinformed opinion. If fat were converted to glucose for energy, hypoglycemia wouldn't be a problem with overweight people, would it? Unfortunately, it just so happens to be.

Fat, 95% of the time, is not and can not be converted to glucose for use as energy. This is fact. Tryglycerides, through lipolysis, are broken down into 3 fatty acids and one glycerol and the fatty acids are sent to the cells to be used for energy. Why you actually think fat is converted to glucose for energy is beyond me.



Mine is. Yours? Not so much; however, it is the preferred source of fuel.



Ah, name calling. Typical. I'm disappointed. How many studies have you read that support the hypothesis that your suggesting?



How is a low-carb lifestyle toxic? How many studies have you read that suggest low-fat, high-carb diets are good and high-fat, low-carb diets are bad? Could you please provide them. Please, no observational/epidemiological studies.



It hasn't.



Vegetables, including greens, are carbohydrates.

Are you insulting me because you can't provide intelligent discussion?

i drink bucket load of green tea every day, actually it is now the only liquid i consume aside from maybe 1 glass of water and fruit which contains liquid. I have never felt better! It's winter here and sick people are all around me, and I have not gotten cold or flu. At the gym it feels my endurance has increased 30-40% hoping the anti-cancer properties of greentea help out..

I don't post here often, as a result of my classes and research schedule, but I felt it necessary to applaud Dev for presenting a well sourced, cogent argument. To suggest that the human diet should be absent any meat protein is ridiculous at best and harmful at worst.

Also, I fail to see who is "making money" by suggesting a moderate fat-carb balanced died. Hemp seems to screech about some sort of capitalist agenda in our dietary information, but never really points out how the money is being made or to whom it is going. As far as I have been able to see, the government subsidises both meat and vegetable production. If the thrust of the argument is that they make money off of cancer, which some perceive as being causally linked to meat, then why don't they provide massive subsidies to cow and poultry farmers, rather than corn, wheat, and soy farmers, as is the current status quo?

The final point I wanted to make is in response to some previous poster's stance that we "shouldn't trust" scientists for some reason. Granted, there will always be a few bad apples, just as there some bad apples on this very forum trying to spread their own pisspoor version of 'the truth', but overall, scientists are truly interested in understanding and helping humanity. I've worked at three major universities in the United States among some great minds in the fields of genetics and endocrinology, and not once did I get the impression that they were a shill for the government or that they were purposefully hiding data to support a pharmaceutical product. Obviously, this is just an anecdote, but I really hope people will realise that scientists are poorly paid, endlessly devoted students for life who are merely trying to further out understanding, not control, hurt, maim, or kill.

back on topic for a minute.
does it really make sense to you, as a thinking, sentient being, to put dead carcases of other creatures through your ailementary canal and expect good things to happen?
You do realize the reason meat goes bad is because its decomposing and stuff, and in tihs proscess it relases all teh carcinogens contained within. where do you think all that bad stuff goes if its trapped in your digestive tract?
it goes into your body! thats where.

There are a great number of species which eat the remains of other species. The fact of the matter is, in all organisms, decomposition begins at the point that cellular reproduction ceases and cellular death begins. That plants you pluck out of the ground and then boil, steam, toss in a salad, or otherwise, are no further from "decomposing" as the frozen chicken breast you buy in the store. The only reason you are so opposed to it is that tissues with fats in them visibly marble as specific bacteria break down protein. Obviously, it looks differently in plants as different bacteria act on the lectins and cellulose held within. I'm not saying you should eat rotten foods (far from it, in fact), but arguing from the stance that meat looks worse to you as it decomposes is very poor science.

I'm not begrudging you your lifestyle. If you feel better as a vegan/vegetarian and are truly healthy, wonderful. I wish you only the best. What I do have a problem with, however, is misrepresenting medical science in a ploy to spread an agenda.

reply to post by rapunzel222

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Well, as for inflamation, I know someone that cut dairy out of her diet and was cured of her rumatoid arthritis.

Diet alterations definitely affect growths. I had a couple warts on my hand last year and I completely cut caffiene and refined sugar out of my diet - within 3 weeks the warts were completely gone and I've had no sign of them since. Within one week of cutting out the 2 things, I noticed the warts flattened, then they began to dry up and disappear. I had had them for 9 months and it was my last ditch effort before going to the doctor to get them frozen off. I couldn't believe that it worked.

Not to be nitpicky, but caffeine and sugar have little to nothing to to with herpes virus. Correlation doesn't mean causation is the credo of modern science, after all. I'm very glad your warts are gone, but perhaps it was your body's natural, robust immune system that did the work?

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

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im kind of surprised someoen with an apparently deep knowledge of the meidcal sciences supports consuming meat.

Why is that? Certain types of meat, especially fish, are incredibly beneficial to a natural human diet. Red meat should be eaten in moderation, obviously, but fish and poultry certainly have a place in a well-balanced nutritional plan. The key is moderation in ALL things, not absence of some and excess of others. Eating purely meat or purely veggies is not healthy. The same goes for high-carb, high-protein, high-fat, etc. fad diets. Truly healthy individuals balance their diets so that all the essential foodstuffs are represented in the proper proportions.

But, like I said previously, if you are able to subsist on a mostly vegetarian diet healthily, more power to you. I certainly won't deny you the choice, but you should also be aware of the risks and benefits that your lifestyle, as well as the alternatives, present.

[edit on 7/14/2009 by VneZonyDostupa]

heres some stuff that can happen to you from eating meat.
cancer
parasite infestation
stroke
vCJD
heart disease
obesity
diabeetus
high blood pressure
gout
piles
appendicities
etc. etc.
now,as a person in the medical field, would you advise someone to cut out the part of their diet that casues those symptoms/conditions regardless of what it was?

I've taken the liberty of rearranging your list for ease of discussion. If I've left one out, please point it out.



These two can be easily developed simply from outdoor living. Excess UV light can cause melanoma, as can eating poor quality or bacteria/viral infected plants. Parasites are a natural part of human existence. In fact, we have specific white cells (eosinophils) whose sole job is to combat parasites. By nature, this suggests that parasites have been with us as a species for millenia.



All of these have been shown to have a genetic component. Granted, the genetic component isn't the sole cause, but the fact that there is one suggests that foodstuffs are not truly the cause. In fact, several of these, specifically obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure, and stroke, can be triggered by psychosomatic or psychological conditions. It is more than possible to become obese and type-2 diabetic while not eating meat. After all, Southerners have proven that even the healthiest of foods can be fried or covered in cheese.



All of these conditions are caused by events either only partially linked to meat and dairy consumption, or are not linked at all. In the case of appendicitis, it's currently theorised that a low fiber, not high meat, condition can increase the risk of an inflamed appendix. There has been no correlation between high meat intake and appendicitis. This is also true for piles (hemmorhoid), as there are innumerable causes for a hemmoroids, from stress to straining while defecating. Currently, too little is known about vJCD, as there have been relatively few cases, so I am not comfortable making a judgement call related to it, as should you.

In fact, the only condition you've listed which is truly linked to a high protein diet is gout. The uptick in circulating uric acid from high protein or fat intake can cause renal events, absolutely. That's why, in my previous post, I espoused a balanced diet, not one rich in any one area. There are equally as many risks of low complex protein diets as there are high.

To be hoest I don't think scientist really have any decent idea as to what causes cancer, how t o cure it or as to what eating most foods in moderation really do to the human body. For instance I know someone who is completely vegetarian. he's buff, healthy and lives a good life. I know somebody who lives nearly completely on beer, meat and fats and hes... healthy (according to doctors) buff and lives a good life. Everything in moderation. we are supposed to eat everything.

Just becasue it's sweet doesn't mean you should eat it. I agree that adding more fruits to ones diet is a good thing but it's mainly because there is fiber, some vitamins, and most important phytonutrients. But one needs to consume protien from one source or another. Recycling the protien of a dead animal by ingesting it and using for ones own body is perfectly fine.

I honestly think scientists are grasping at straws when it comes to both cancer and nutrition. How do they explain the connection between carcinogens and the fact that those carcinogens don't always cause cancer. I know a guy who lives able bodied up to the age of 102 and he smoked everyday. I also know a vegan who jogged everyday and dropped dead from organ failure at 52. go figure. how does science explain that with their theories on nutrition. how come just about every nutritionist is really a fad dieter? confused.

Raw meat disgusting? what are you talking about. My mouth waters when I see raw meat. THe smell of it is enticing too. I judge the quality of meat by it's smell. why on earth would we have such highly functional meat tasting glands to sense glutimate. why would meat flavoring be the secret behind mc donalds frys if we aren't inharently attracted to eating meat.

I think those who feel that meat is murder are really just squimish. As for me I catch animals from time to time. I even drive knives into them while they are still alive debowel them fillet their bodies and eat them shortly after wards. sometimes even raw.

SOme raw meats are good for you.

How come one of the most perfect foods even from scientists viewpoints are actually gross disgusting bugs. wanna bet bugs are intended to be a staple of human consumption and were back in the day. but we grew squimish to eating something thats actually very healthy for you. raw sugars not so healthy. fruit good. super sweet fruit in any form of abundance really bad.