Vaccines do not stop the spread of viruses!, page 2

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reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:27 AM by Applesandoranges

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Applesandoranges

I am not totally sure of your point, but there would most likely only be a small percentage that this vaccine wouldnt work on or would have negative side effects. Even the one from the 70's only had negative consequences on a tiny percentage of the people that took it.

So there is no two sides unless you mean one side is 99% and the other is less than 1%. I mean if I was gambling and you gave me a 99% chance of winning I would definitely take that bet over and over again.

But who is to say that your knowledge of what happened in the 70's is the truth? Do the dead people return from their graves to tell you?

Oh cause the statistics of the companies own testing told you? and not some independent source?

Come on, how hoave we gone from a thinking society to one who lets authority dominate us and our own bodily temple.

Obviously your telling me that the state owns my body and that i should take the vaccine?

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Applesandoranges]

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:33 AM by grapesofraft

reply to post by Applesandoranges

Nobody is telling us what we HAVE to do with our bodies. If you want to up your chances of dying from the flu, if it spreads to a greater extent, then do not take the shot.

Look unless you are a trained scientest or doctor AND you have the resources to test and/or create a vaccine then you have to take someones word for it.

It is really not in any drug companies interest to create a vaccine to kill you on purpose, because they dont want to get their rearends sued off. Plus the CDC and other countries agencies would test and approve it. But if some group of people want to die from their own paranoia that is fine with me. That is just less crazy people in the world and a plus for natural selection in my book.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:37 AM by Applesandoranges

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Applesandoranges

Nobody is telling us what we HAVE to do with our bodies. If you want to up your chances of dying from the flu, if it spreads to a greater extent, then do not take the shot.

Look unless you are a trained scientest or doctor AND you have the resources to test and/or create a vaccine then you have to take someones word for it.

It is really not in any drug companies interest to create a vaccine to kill you on purpose, because they dont want to get their rearends sued off. Plus the CDC and other countries agencies would test and approve it. But if some group of people want to die from their own paranoia that is fine with me. That is just less crazy people in the world and a plus for natural selection in my book.

Because some body does not want to subject their body to toxins and chemicals they are crazy?

Of course it needs thorough testing and it takes years not months. The vaccines that are coming out now are only taking months to be produced. I call that crazy.

and there lies another problem their crazy if they play with my life and im crazy if i play with my life. In your case my body is an asset and a lotto win.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Applesandoranges]

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:40 AM by 0nce 0nce

Originally posted by Nickmare
Also, I'll note that they prevent natural selection/survival of the fittest.

Yes, very good point. Humans are messing with natural selection / evolution, by using vaccines. The people with strong immune systems would normally survive and reproduce, while the people with weaker immune systems would disappear. With vaccines, the weaker immune systems are surviving and reproducing.

However, I believe saving lives is more important than natural selection and evolution. So it's a good point, but not a good reason to avoid vaccination, or to use in a debate against it.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:42 AM by grapesofraft

reply to post by Applesandoranges

Well in a perfect world you could take years to develop a vaccine and test it. But when you have something that has a great potential to spread and a relatively high mortality rate then the drug companies and the health officials from around the world do the best they can with what time they have. Would you rather have half the population die off while they spend the next 2-5 years testing it?

Like I said, if people dont want to take the vaccine for whatever reason be it not liking chemicals in their body or whatever then that is no concern of mine. Life is full of choices and consequences. I wish you the best of luck with whatever choice you make.

Also, a vaccine is not chemicals, but rather a less deadly and lower concentration of the viral strain. The only chemicals would be in whatever they needed to preserve it and deliver it in. Plus, whenever you eat, drink, or breathe you are taking chemicals in your body.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:49 AM by unityemissions

I don't think a flu vaccine works, but not for this reason. Take novel flu's for example. Since there's no immunity, it spreads to everyone. Naturally, as people become infected and immune, the virus adapts and runs another course. If most of the population gets infected, the course could be sped up starting another round artificially. Either way it seems there are several mutations and waves throughout a pandemic.

If we could mass vaccinate before each peak in wave, perhaps they would have an overall beneficial effect, but I think it's like how we created superbugs. As we try to wipe it out, it will adapt more lethal and perhaps be more transmissible then what nature might have provided. I think we're increasing the evolution of flu's by creating artificially difficult environments for survival via mass vaccination.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:51 AM by Applesandoranges

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Applesandoranges

Well in a perfect world you could take years to develop a vaccine and test it. But when you have something that has a great potential to spread and a relatively high mortality rate then the drug companies and the health officials from around the world do the best they can with what time they have. Would you rather have half the population die off while they spend the next 2-5 years testing it?

A high mortality rate? Says who! Since you believe in statistics then why dont anyone ever care about the normal flu death rates, but surely the nation has taken a standstill for the safety of others then. The nation has also taken a standstill for the many cancer victims.

Like I said, if people dont want to take the vaccine for whatever reason be it not liking chemicals in their body or whatever then that is no concern of mine. Life is full of choices and consequences. I wish you the best of luck with whatever choice you make.

Thankyou and i wish the best of luck to you too. So the interest and no concern of yours is that only of yourself and you do not care if other people die just so your own life is saved from a miracle drug. Is it not the pupose of the scientists to save peoples lives? So if its no concern of yours then why do you care what they have to offer in the first place.

Also, a vaccine is not chemicals, but rather a less deadly and lower concentration of the viral strain. The only chemicals would be in whatever they needed to preserve it and deliver it in. Plus, whenever you eat, drink, or breathe you are taking chemicals in your body.

Yeah whatever i eat, drink and breathe has lowered my quality of life due to the dominance of so called companies and systems that allow it. It is my fault only when i dont care about my bodily temple and what it needs. But those who dont care what chemicals they ingest sure as heck care not to die.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Applesandoranges]

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 12:52 AM by grapesofraft

reply to post by unityemissions

Though this could be true in some rare cases, an effective vaccine would only help to eradicate the virus because it will not have enough time to adapt before your body defeats it. By having a sufficient number of people that are not vaccinated and do not die quickly enough from the virus then you create an environment for more mutation.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 01:01 AM by grapesofraft

reply to post by Applesandoranges

Like almost everything in life there is a balance. If you eat nothing but junk food and you drink alcohol to excess most of your life or if you smoke for 40 years then yeah it is going to take a toll on you.

Life is full of choices and you succeed or fail by them. I dont know if our bodies are temples but they are biological "machines" that need proper care and maintenance. Nobody forces people to eat bad or make poor life choices. It is personal choice. We all make the choices we think are best for us, sometimes we are right and sometimes wrong. As far as the flu shots go if it starts spreading in my area and they are available then I amd my family will take them under my direction. If I am wrong then one or more of us may suffer the consequences. If I am right we might survive something we might not have otherwise.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 01:08 AM by Applesandoranges

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Applesandoranges

Like almost everything in life there is a balance. If you eat nothing but junk food and you drink alcohol to excess most of your life or if you smoke for 40 years then yeah it is going to take a toll on you.

Life is full of choices and you succeed or fail by them. I dont know if our bodies are temples but they are biological "machines" that need proper care and maintenance. Nobody forces people to eat bad or make poor life choices. It is personal choice. We all make the choices we think are best for us, sometimes we are right and sometimes wrong. As far as the flu shots go if it starts spreading in my area and they are available then I amd my family will take them under my direction. If I am wrong then one or more of us may suffer the consequences. If I am right we might survive something we might not have otherwise.

We are talking in circles so i will leave it at that. Yes people have choices. Thankgod some people can comprehend that without pushing their own views and agendas and actually great some people are open minded. I almost lost faith in ATS.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 01:13 AM by grapesofraft

reply to post by Applesandoranges

Well good luck to you and yours. This whole flu thing will probably pass without much anyway, and you are right we are going in circles. So have a good evening.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 01:21 AM by unityemissions

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by unityemissions

Though this could be true in some rare cases, an effective vaccine would only help to eradicate the virus because it will not have enough time to adapt before your body defeats it. By having a sufficient number of people that are not vaccinated and do not die quickly enough from the virus then you create an environment for more mutation.

This is just theory like what I wrote, correct? Have we proof that vaccinations will ward off a second wave (major mutation) in a pandemic of novel virus? What you say has some reason to it, but I respectfully disagree. I think either way a novel flu virus will run it's course.

Besides the mutation doesn't usually occur until most people are immune, correct? That's the thing, it survives out of necessity. The vaccine WOULD DO THE EXACT SAME THING on the overall environment, only speed up the process. Those infected would become immune (maybe), yet I find it absurd to think the entirety of the virus would simply cease to exist. It would be moved to a further stage where it was no longer as infectious and so much more likely to adapt...mutate.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 02:28 AM by azureskys

After reading the pros and cons on this thread, I've come to the conclusion
that there are two opptions for this virus/vaccine dilemma.

1. A person can knowingly take a vaccine that may or may not kill you,

2. A person can make the choice not to take a vaccine,
knowing if you catch the virus, it may or may not kill you.

Either way, the person is making the choice to chance death as the out come.

Either way, the choice is very personal and should be considered
with the greatest care,
No one should ever, reduce or dismiss the importance or quality
of the other guys choice to live the way they feel is best for them.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by azureskys]

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 04:00 AM by TheRebel

What if we come to know that this Swine Flu is not a natural calamity in its origin and created artificially. When i think in information technology field and see; how companies hire people to create viruses and bugs to cause our important data and information to suffer and later they offer anti-viruses softwares. So we should not be amazed realizing the same case with this Swine Flu in terms of giant pharma companies. It is our choice to take vaccine or not; but i have more faith on my immune system than the vaccine created by Baxter.

"By Michelle Fay Cortez and Jason Gale Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Baxter International Inc. in Austria unintentionally contaminated samples with the bird flu virus that were used in laboratories in three neighboring countries, raising concern about the potential spread of the deadly disease. The contamination was discovered when ferrets at a laboratory in the Czech Republic died after being inoculated with vaccine made from the samples early this month. The material came from Deerfield, Illinois-based Baxter, which reported the incident to the Austrian Ministry of Health, Sigrid Rosenberger, a ministry spokeswoman, said today in a telephone interview. “This was infected with a bird flu virus,” Rosenberger said. “There were some people from the company who handled it.”

www.bloomberg.com...

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 02:41 PM by Lookingup

The U.S. is Polio-free today because of ........vaccinations. Global Polio Eradication Initiative You folks do what you want, but I am am vaccinated up to the hilt with everything except the flu vaccine. I figure it mutates rapidly, everybody I know who gets it, gets sick, and what the heck, it's just the flu. Tetanus--I'm vaccinated. I work at home tearing down old, rusty fences, etc.. Dying from a preventable neurotoxin isn't my idea of fun. YouTube Hepatitis B--I'm vaccinated. I work around blood. If I could get a rabies vaccination, I would. I might step on a sick rat while tearing down an old, rusty fence.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 03:55 PM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by dizziedame
What is the source of your information?

Polio and measles are caused by a virus and the vaccines have worked very well to combat both viruses.

So, what makes the flu vaccine not work properly?

Actually, if one examines the data on these diseases, they were streadily dropping as better diets and hygiene came in. They spiked when the "vaccines" were intorduced, to continue falling at the same rate as before.

So I wouldn't use these as any kind of evidence that "vaccines" work. And the "vaccines" are filled with stuff our bloodstreams were never meant to handle - from aluminum to mercury (even "mercury-free" vaccines are testing positive for mercury, as it cannot be removed, having bonded to proteins.

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 05:45 PM by 0nce 0nce

Originally posted by Lookingup
The U.S. is Polio-free today because of ........vaccinations. Global Polio Eradication Initiative You folks do what you want, but I am am vaccinated up to the hilt with everything except the flu vaccine. I figure it mutates rapidly, everybody I know who gets it, gets sick, and what the heck, it's just the flu. Tetanus--I'm vaccinated. I work at home tearing down old, rusty fences, etc.. Dying from a preventable neurotoxin isn't my idea of fun. YouTube Hepatitis B--I'm vaccinated. I work around blood. If I could get a rabies vaccination, I would. I might step on a sick rat while tearing down an old, rusty fence.

See you totally missed the point.

The point is, all of those problems you just mentioned are not gone, they did not magically disappear, and you are still able to "get them", however, they just don't effect you when you are vaccinated (in theory).

Just because you are vaccinated, doesn't mean the viruses will go away.

I guess understanding that is like a mental riddle you have to solve.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by 0nce 0nce]

reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 08:33 PM by denynothing

Viruses are not alive, their only purpose is to reproduce, therefore they are not considered alive. They will not know if a vaccine has been administered to a person. They wont know anything. Their mutations are random and if its a good mutation then nature runs with it and well if it isnt then nature deals with it. Viruses reproduce so fast that a tiny mutation can become widespread. So it would be important that the virus can be taken out before it reproduces a possibly dangerous mutation.

reply posted on 29-6-2009 @ 01:12 AM by unityemissions

reply to post by denynothing

They reproduce and evolve just like everyone else. Some scientists say they aren't alive, others aren't so sure. I think it depends on your perspective. I view all matter on earth as living in a dynamic biosphere.

reply posted on 29-6-2009 @ 09:08 PM by xman_in_blackx

Originally posted by grapesofraft
It is really not in any drug companies interest to create a vaccine to kill you on purpose, because they dont want to get their rearends sued off. Plus the CDC and other countries agencies would test and approve it. But if some group of people want to die from their own paranoia that is fine with me. That is just less crazy people in the world and a plus for natural selection in my book.