Update on the fake Bearer Bonds - w/source

This should hopefully clear up a few things about those fake bearer bonds we have been hearing about.

There are a few interesting facts that should cover most of the "but why's?"

Including:

1. Why they were not detained further

2. What denominations bearer bonds have been issued in

3. How many dollars of outstanding bearer bonds are in circulation still


This, I hope, will put most of the "conspiracy talk" to sleep.



Source

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Hardly a satisfactory end to this, in my opinion. There are still unanswered questions, such as who the men were and what they planned on doing with the bonds. It's probably safe, however, to believe that the bonds were fake, since the guys transporting them mysteriously disappeared without trying to reclaim them.

CNBC - I am so convinced!!

What a laugh - we are supposed to believe they were fake because the media tells us so?

Two old guys from Japans Ministry of Finance decide to make up 134 billion in fake money to .. what .. play monopoly?

They spent 4 days in jail/detention - but in that time no-one was able to send a fax copy of the bills to check validity - or at least determine if they even LOOKED like bonds, or even that bonds were issued in those denominations!?

Of course 99.999999% of people have never seen a $500 mil bond, and would have no idea if they can be issued in those kinds of values - so tell a simple lie - and it all goes away.

The US has a huge vested interest to discredit this story and try and make it go away.

He said the two men had valid Japanese passports, but he would not elaborate further on their identities. “We don’t know where they are now,” he said. “We have had no contact with the two men. They have not asked us for our help.”

Apparently they just went 'poof'! How convenient - we don't know, you don't know - nobody knows - these are not the droids you are looking for - move along!

If the bonds were fake, then these guys were conspiring to commit a multi-billion dollar fraud - but oh well - we just let them go.

Anyone who believes this nonsense is dumber than a brick.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by Amagnon
CNBC - I am so convinced!!

What a laugh - we are supposed to believe they were fake because the media tells us so?

Two old guys from Japans Ministry of Finance decide to make up 134 billion in fake money to .. what .. play monopoly?

They spent 4 days in jail/detention - but in that time no-one was able to send a fax copy of the bills to check validity - or at least determine if they even LOOKED like bonds, or even that bonds were issued in those denominations!?

Of course 99.999999% of people have never seen a $500 mil bond, and would have no idea if they can be issued in those kinds of values - so tell a simple lie - and it all goes away.

The US has a huge vested interest to discredit this story and try and make it go away.

He said the two men had valid Japanese passports, but he would not elaborate further on their identities. “We don’t know where they are now,” he said. “We have had no contact with the two men. They have not asked us for our help.”

Apparently they just went 'poof'! How convenient - we don't know, you don't know - nobody knows - these are not the droids you are looking for - move along!

If the bonds were fake, then these guys were conspiring to commit a multi-billion dollar fraud - but oh well - we just let them go.

Anyone who believes this nonsense is dumber than a brick.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Amagnon]

It is my understanding that they were released immediately without spending any time in jail, and then disappeared. Italian law didn't require them to be held. Is it possible that there's a conspiracy here? Maybe, but if the bonds were legitimate I would have expected the men to try to reclaim them.

Originally posted by LiquidLight
It is my understanding that they were released immediately without spending any time in jail, and then disappeared. Italian law didn't require them to be held. Is it possible that there's a conspiracy here? Maybe, but if the bonds were legitimate I would have expected the men to try to reclaim them.

If the bonds were fake then I would expect the guys to be in the news and having a big laugh and telling everyone why it was that they were carrying these fake bonds that would fool no-one and could never be used. No-one is going to cash a $500 million dollar fake bond, or use it in a transaction - no-one. So if they were fake, then they would have been for some kind of game - just for fun - but this seems to be NOT the case.

If this amount of money was discovered - it would go straight to the top - that means that the people looking at them knew what a bond looks like - but it took them this long to determine they were fake? Ludicrous.

If they were real then I would expect the guys to disappear fast - the governments of Japan, US and Italy would have to sort it out - there is no reason for the guys to hang around, they were simply couriers - the Italians would not be handing back the bonds.

The handling of this - the delay, the detention and the lack of MSM coverage all indicates the bonds are real.

Also - if the US wanted this to go away - they could easily call Japan and tell them "We are going to deny the validity of the bonds, we are canceling them and we will re-issue you with new bonds." Simple as that - the Italians now have nothing, and the problem goes away.



[edit on 28-6-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Amagnon


Did you read the article?


2nd line

Ah, the machinations of international Politics!


My I remind everyone of two of the most basic words in the universal language of politics:


"Plausible Deniability"



Just because some looks Japanese doesn't mean he/she IS Japanese.

And, just because some one carries a passport from some country doesn't mean that person is from that country.

(An old friend of mine, a US citizen, was provided with a Canadian passport while he was serving in Europe in the intelligence branch of the USAF as an airman: no, he did not, nor does not, have dual citizenship)


Furthermore, who's to say that the "fake" bonds where not meant to be discovered and "siezed"?

What better way to blunt the possibility of future "blackmail" attempts by the eventual recipiants, than to publicly "discredit" the bonds' value (while secretly honoring their implied value).

Plausible Deniability.


As to the claim by the Treasury official that such bonds "were never issued'"...


In the world of "Governmental Double-Speak", never "issued" might mean nothing more than never officially sold, that is to say that a transfer of ownership took place.

Which does not mean that they were never in existence, or never "traded".

They may have been Loaned at some time, and for some purpose, with the understanding that they would be returned to the US Treasury at the completion of some transaction. A government "IOU", if you will.

To "loan" something does not transfer that object's ownership, and therefor one could be said to have not "issued" the object; which would be to imply that the object has been released from one's permanent control.


Plausible Deniability

Originally posted by Amagnon

CNBC - I am so convinced!! What a laugh - we are supposed to believe they were fake because the media tells us so?

It is quoted from the New York Times.

Two old guys from Japans Ministry of Finance decide to make up 134 billion in fake money to .. what .. play monopoly?

No, it is pretty obvious they were trying to pawn them off on unsuspecting people, perhaps someone such as yourself if you had the money since you believe these to be real.

Of course 99.999999% of people have never seen a $500 mil bond, and would have no idea if they can be issued in those kinds of values - so tell a simple lie - and it all goes away.

Yes, no one ever has seen bearer bonds in those denominations, because they were never produced in such denominations. You apparently didn't read the article. Thats ok though, Hal Turner is actually blogging about this from prison.

The US has a huge vested interest to discredit this story and try and make it go away.

So what would you like them to do since they are obvious forgeries?

He said the two men had valid Japanese passports, but he would not elaborate further on their identities. “We don’t know where they are now,” he said. “We have had no contact with the two men. They have not asked us for our help.”

Apparently they just went 'poof'! How convenient - we don't know, you don't know - nobody knows - these are not the droids you are looking for - move along!

They were released, and did not spend anytime in jail bc it is not something you can do time there for. Again, you did not read the article.

If the bonds were fake, then these guys were conspiring to commit a multi-billion dollar fraud - but oh well - we just let them go.

Ill refer to my last comment

Anyone who believes this nonsense is dumber than a brick.

Interesting...

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by Amagnon

Originally posted by LiquidLight

It is my understanding that they were released immediately without spending any time in jail, and then disappeared. Italian law didn't require them to be held. Is it possible that there's a conspiracy here? Maybe, but if the bonds were legitimate I would have expected the men to try to reclaim them.

If the bonds were fake then I would expect the guys to be in the news and having a big laugh and telling everyone why it was that they were carrying these fake bonds that would fool no-one and could never be used. No-one is going to cash a $500 million dollar fake bond, or use it in a transaction - no-one. So if they were fake, then they would have been for some kind of game - just for fun - but this seems to be NOT the case.

They didnt fool anyone. Yeah, me and my friends print 500 million dollar bonds all the time, just for fun though.

They prob. would have fooled some suckers though for pennies on the dollar yes, when if they were real, they could have cashed them at face value..?

And you think anyone is going to travel on public transportation carrying these things? Hell, they would prob be in a black helicopter cruising through those mountains with 2 bodyguards some guns and the briefcase handcuffed in a diplomatic pouch IMO.

If this amount of money was discovered - it would go straight to the top - that means that the people looking at them knew what a bond looks like - but it took them this long to determine they were fake? Ludicrous.

Again, I do not believe it took that long. Perhaps it took that long for the media to catch on to it all, but not from the sounds of it since they were released almost immediately.

If they were real then I would expect the guys to disappear fast - the governments of Japan, US and Italy would have to sort it out - there is no reason for the guys to hang around, they were simply couriers - the Italians would not be handing back the bonds.

I agree they did dissapear fast.. but again you did not read the article because Italy was to gain 40%!!! if those bonds if they were real bc of money smuggling rules.

The handling of this - the delay, the detention and the lack of MSM coverage all indicates the bonds are real.

Because of the likes of Hal Turner this story was blown out of proportion, and illegal printing of us dollars and bonds prob. happens quite a bit actually, even though that is based on opinion and I have nothing to back that up with.

Also - if the US wanted this to go away - they could easily call Japan and tell them "We are going to deny the validity of the bonds, we are canceling them and we will re-issue you with new bonds." Simple as that - the Italians now have nothing, and the problem goes away.

If you lost out on 100+ billion US dollars, I doubt you would just take that lying down.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Amagnon

If the bonds were fake then I would expect the guys to be in the news and having a big laugh and telling everyone why it was that they were carrying these fake bonds that would fool no-one and could never be used. No-one is going to cash a $500 million dollar fake bond, or use it in a transaction - no-one. So if they were fake, then they would have been for some kind of game - just for fun - but this seems to be NOT the case.

I agree. If they were clever enough to make these fake bonds surely they would be clever enough to know that the U.S. does not make such bonds so they could never be used.

reply to post by canihavemyvoteback


Yes, but not the people buying them since 20% of this message board at one time it seemed thought kennedy bonds were real when this story first broke

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Do you really believe that someone with 500 mill laying around who decides to buy U.S. bonds would not know the difference between obvious fakes and the real thing. Do you think they have never purchased bonds before? With any transaction for that amount, wouldn't you have a Lawyer? An Accountant? No one has that amount of money in actual cash so wouldn't there be some kind of bank employee/regulator involved?

I am not saying one way or the other if the reporting of this is the true story, but your assumption that persons wealthy enough to purchase a 500 million dollar bonds are not smart enough to know the difference or are not smart enough to hire someone that knows that knows the difference, (wouldn't be that hard considering THEY ARE FILTHY RICH) is utterly wrong.

Dont know what, but something fishy is going on!! Peace.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan

And you think anyone is going to travel on public transportation carrying these things? Hell, they would prob be in a black helicopter cruising through those mountains with 2 bodyguards some guns and the briefcase handcuffed in a diplomatic pouch IMO.

Actually, diamond couriers take public transportation quite frequently while carrying hundreds of thousands, and even millions of dollars in gems.

It's called "maintaining a low profile".


Also known as "Hiding in Plain Sight".


It is entirely possible that this was not an "official" operation. Employing the accutrements of a government-backed, official transaction might have set off the "wrong" alarm bells in all the "wrong" places; hence the low, "unofficial" profile.

A diplomatic pouch and an armed, high-security, escort might have led to inquiries that would have been at least "inconvenient", and possibly disaterous, if the "loose ends" became known.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Bhadhidar]

In the post below I posited that this whole bond smuggling affair was actually a fencing operation to provide an untraceable source of bribe-funding.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



Now it appears that the US is about to return its ambassador to Iran's ally, Syria.


http//www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/23/US.syria.ambassador/index.html


If my "source" is right, look for further, future developments in Jordan and Georgia as well.

(Edit to fix link)

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Bhadhidar]

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Bhadhidar]

reply to post by Bhadhidar


A diplomatic pouch would have never been looked in, so I guess I dont see the point of "hiding in plain sight".

reply to post by GreenBicMan



Diplomantic pouches are handled through diplomatic channels, usually involve "diplomats", and always entail an "official" bureaucratic "trail"; which can be tracked back to the the person(s) at the begining and end of said trail.

Furthermore, you have the potential for "leaks' at each and every one of these junctures.


Not the sort of risk you would want to incur if what you are doing amounts to an official bribe of high-level foreign officials with official and public-acknowledged allegiances to opposing, powerful countries.

reply to post by Bhadhidar


Yeah, I get what you mean, but here is my problem.

Do you think these are real or fake? Because I guess that changes how you view these.

I think it makes sense honestly (i think they are fake) to carry them like they did.

I also think this is part of a global media disinformation campaign against the US DOLLAR, I base this on obviously more than this, and have listed my opinions in the up to the minute market thread.

I just think if people were "in the know" they could get these to their destination no problem, and just wouldn't deal with all the drama associated through "retail" routes.

I mean, if the people can't check what is in their bag, they just can't check, and I don't see how you could have leaks when no one knows what is in there (the bag/pouch) in the first place... thats the point I am trying to make I guess.

reply to post by canihavemyvoteback


I dont know.

Why do you think they made them then?

I think it was to pawn them off on idiots.

What else were they for unless you refer to my global disinformation campaign against the US Dollar.

bearer bonds are like cash, whoever has them can put them in a financial institution and draw on them, using the currency of any country the person is in. it is a convienent way of carrying large amounts of cash without the weight and bulk, or the currency exchange process. plus unlike cash, any common thief would have a hard time cashing them in, as they are numbered, security engraved and tracable, so as to rule out forgery, presuant to the validation of the issurer, of which the accepting financial institution would verify.

however, i would be naive to say that these rules are followed a 100 percent. large amounts of cash can influence anybody to do some horrendous and illegal acts.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by jimmyx


So what would your opinion be in this instance?