We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

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posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by vcwxvwligen
 


While Freemasonry is open to pretty much all faiths, it is founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.
Objectively, that can be viewed as indirect support.
Later degrees or the York Rite does require you to swear an Oath to defend Christianity, though doesn't require you to be Christian that I recall.

Regular English Freemasonry is not open to polytheistic faiths.

It requires you to sit through quotations from the Bible during ritual.




posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
I'm sure you're a decent person as well, but I'm equally sure that unless you're self-employed, you don't know everything about every aspect of the lives of every person you work for or work with either. What kinks are your boss into? How much has the secretary embezzled from the company? Did the company pay for every piece of software on every computer in the office? Or did someone skirt the law and install something they weren't supposed to? Show me ANY organization that's COMPLETELY transparent. You can't. Why should Masonry be held to a different standard?

You don't need to be a CEO of a corporation to discover that someone's been cooking the books or breaking the law.

Someone in an entry-level position is usually not willing to risk blowing the whistle on corporate corruption, so there goes your analogy.


I can only ask, to what end? Say that TPTB, whatever you want to call them, HAVE infiltrated the Grand Lodge of my state. What exactly are they getting us, the blind underlings, to do without our knowledge or consent? How are they leveraging their position to actually DO anything, particularly anything un-Masonic?

As a member of the order composed of supposed "equals," you have a duty to discover any possible corruption. To deny that anything happens is just as good as enabling the bad guys.


I would suggest that in those cases, it is the individual that is guilty of such indiscretions, and not the institution. I'm not saying the institution is incorruptible, but I do think that as large as it is, it would be difficult for institutional corruption to persist for long without someone noticing it and making a big noise about it. Close to 100,000 Masons in my state. Good odds someone's seen something, if there's anything to find...

Good odds witnesses would a blind eye, due to oaths of secrecy.


I honestly think it's something that most, if not all, Masons here on ATS have given regular thought to. There are even a few members here who joined Masonry explicitly to try to expose it, or to find out what was going on behind the closed doors, and when they got there, they found there wasn't anything to worry about and decided to stay.

Not all Masons are trusted with all secrets. Freemasonry is not an egalitarian society.


Sure. The power structure, while a bit difficult to explain, isn't really THAT complicated. Personally know and see regularly at least three former Grand Masters of my state... the guys who ran Masonry in my state for their one year elected term. I've had dinner with both the head of the Scottish Rite in my state, and the head of the Scottish Rite for the Southern Jurisdiction (35 states in the US, and I believe also having sovereignty over some other territories as well). THESE are the "high level Masons" of myth, and they're all very approachable men. If I had concerns, I'd have no problem discussing the matter with them.

Next time you see them, you should ask about the initiation rituals and why must a man where one pant-leg up and wear a slipper on one foot.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
We as masons, can't possibly know everything that goes on in all of masonry. ... But your assertations [sic] that there are evil things going on in our organization are incorrect.

This is a logical fallacy.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by network dude
We as masons, can't possibly know everything that goes on in all of masonry. ... But your assertations [sic] that there are evil things going on in our organization are incorrect.

This is a logical fallacy.


your neighbor sneaks into your house and urinates in your milk.

does that make sense now? I don't know you, or your neighbor, nor do I know where you live, but I have just asserted something that you cannot disprove. It's incorrect, but I said it just the same. If you want to claim there is corruption in masonry, start by offering proof, not empty words.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

You said only a few of the Southern Baptists in your area were Freemasons, which does not accurately reflect the Southern Baptist congregation as a whole, or even high-level Southern Baptists.

What does a divine creator have to do with an afterlife or a celestial lodge?


Oh my, now we have High-level Southern Babtists. I am so confused.


Rev. Graham is a very good advocate for God. But his opinions on what happens in other areas and other religions are just that. his opinions. While he speaks the word of God, he is not God nor do I believe that God has a problem with Southern baptist ministers or parishners becoming Freemasons. Even if Rev. Graham thinks otherwise. That is a question for God and I will be sure to ask him when I see him.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:50 AM
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Most people, even many Masons, incorrectly believe that Masonry is merely a fraternal order, like the Lions Club, Elks Club, etc. Masonry expressly denies it is a religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. Freemasonry is a non-Christian occult religion that teaches a different way to salvation and considers Jesus, Buddha, Confucius, and all spiritual leaders to be only messengers of "The Grand Architect of the Universe". The Grand Architect is not just another term for Jehovah. Freemasonry teaches that there are two basic Gods: Adonay, the god of the Christians, a god of evil and Lucifer, a separate god of good. Freemasonry considers the religious scriptures of all religions to be equally valid.



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Masonry has at least 33 degrees (the lowest is level 1). At each level, a person is given more details, more Masonic 'truth'. Most Masons never get beyond the first few levels. The higher levels expressly teach that candidates at the lower levels should not be taught the truth but should be given the impression that they are being taught the truth. For instance, the "Lucifer is good and Adonay is evil" is taught at the 30th through 32nd level



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by canihavemyvoteback
 

Illuminati or enlighted is the same thing. Enlightment of Illuminated is the same thing.
Of course lower masons don't know it. Red is enligtment, illuminated.
It has to do with the red light of course. Enligtment by the down side, the red dragon.
edit on 29-11-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by Killuminti1996
 


which 30th degree does this get taught at? Scottish Rite or York Rite? Northern, or Souther jurisdiction? English or European? I only ask because I am a 32nd degree mason and I still have not heard the word Lucifer in masonry, I still believe the God is the father, and Jesus Christ is his son, and I Still believe that masonry is not a religion as it offers no salvation.

You must have made up a few things.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by vcwxvwligen
 

To be accurate we say your life must be as spotless as the white lambskin apron for you to enter the Celestial Lodge above. We don't say just by merely wearing it gets you into Heaven, it is up to you how you spend your life and the Judgment of God. The apron is a badge of a Mason, not a one-way ticket. Silly.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 

God is not the father and not the mother, I don't see how god becomes this man.
Always picturing god as a man, the very notion of human is a component of two parts.
God is light and darkness to best of my knowlege, so man saw to become sort of like god enlighten on the inside. Of course once you do that your are dead on the inside because you can't become like god and you lose your feelings, become this one sided view, you open up and die on the inside gaining knowlege.

God is alive, cares but knows it all also so it has bolth sides, so god must be something else, and of course not a man. This very notion god made man in his image ? Or made the human in his image ? The very esence of life is in the human, first comes the kind "human" then the sex "man"Just like your first name and last name.

Masonry beilives in a man god sort of an arhitect, limitating it's self to that. But of course the anunaki were here doing experiments, the very notion of the ones that you are worshiping are the ones fallen from god's grace ? aki the monkeys, and "an" means year in latin, the ones who invented this whole time thing. You worship the ones fallen from god's grace that came here and made order out of chaos.
It's why there is a jesus and a religion so we can gain god's grace. The red apple of course is the genetic experiments done here.

Masonry is worshiping the alien god's that felt from god's grace, the red snake, the man architect type not the creator. You do it blind folded of course because you don't really know. Why do you think there is a jesus and a curch to get god's grace. Sort of god please let us be like this "human" have we earned it ?
It's who you worship, red red red my friend.

To the best of my knowlege red is the bottom part of the EM spectrum, grounded. Blue is warmer than red on the spectrum also. The tree of life, red is represented by knowlege of course not all, just at 666, because no one knows what is above 666.

The beast is 666, it's man it's self trying to atain knowlege of god. Masonry is worshiping the beast, of course lower level masons don't know.

edit on 29-11-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


God is an idea, a being, a feeling, something that I believe we cannot understand. But if we (by we I mean I) worry so much about not classifying him, we will spend our time trying to find a way to put him in a box that we can understand. He is in all of us, he is in everything. he is everywhere. try explaining that to a child. If we can put aside the need to be politically correct, then we can get on with just being thankful that he is.

IMHO



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Actually you're quite off base. Masonry does not believe or require one to believe in a specific deity, such as a christian God, or a muslim God. Freemasonry only requires that a man believe in a Supreme Being, it does not specify which Supreme Being you put your faith in, because for Freemasons, that does not matter. What ever Supreme Power you believe in is your choice. We refer to The Grand Architect of the Universe, as a title to supplement the title of any specific deity a Mason chooses to worship.

So saying that Masonry as a whole worships one specific God is wrong. And implying that all Masons are worshiping satan is even more far off base. And before you tell me that I'm not a high level Mason so I wouldn't know you can just save it. I belong to several different esoteric and Masonic research groups and in none of my studies have I ever found a line that can be drawn to Satan worship and Freemasonry. And before any one argues that Albert Pike's book Morals and Dogma cites satan and luciferianism, it doesn't. Pike reference to the Light of Lucifer is regarding an ancient reference to the Morning Star, the planet we know as Venus. The power that this planet used to hold over ancient man as a symbol is innately important to most Masons.

Any other examples of Freemasonry that state we are required, or brainwashed into believing in satan, is entirely false. No regular, and legal Masonic lodge promotes the belief of one deity, period.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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Your thread tittle is exactly what the illuminati would say......



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 

I am not god, I'm an individual, god may influence me but I don't think god created it's creation to be it's creation, I'm not limiting my self to humans, animals in general. I keep saying that, god created creation in his image, individualistic to be on it's own and put a little touch"life" in it. Far from stating I am god. Creation was intended to be on it's own under god's grace, umbrella of course. Some break that and go out, of course once you do that you die on the inside and don't care.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


I don't think anyone claimed to be God or stated you were God. I just said that God is in all of us and everything. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted to understand him. You can spend too much time looking for the answer to the wrong question. ( A high level mason once told me that)



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by pepsi78
 


I don't think anyone claimed to be God or stated you were God. I just said that God is in all of us and everything. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted to understand him. You can spend too much time looking for the answer to the wrong question. ( A high level mason once told me that)

You sound to me like the colective, atlantis where it all started. It's a very dangerous idea, comunism is red all the way. What it is being promoted today, it's comunism, it is in contradiction of the creative individual, not only that it's comunism of the mind, it's where your inside becomes your oudside, you become artificial, a robot, a one sided view. You are playing a very dangeros game. Disect your self and you become that, you lose balance, you become an illusion. I want to live like comun people, ever herd of the startrek song with capitan picard.
Comunism for all, not only that but your mind too. When that comes true it's the end because this are broken promises, one chance to save it, save our selfs from becoming that, from pulling the inside of our selfs on the outside, you become the T-shirt and the outside becomes the inside, ARTIFICIAL. In stead of making the art
you become the art. You may look at the words ART-I FISH all. In stead of being the fish who makes art you become the art. It's the plan, you will make an excelent drone
It's what enligtment is, far from what god wanted. Something I would say, hollow are the ORI, empty. No free will, something of ZEN philosophy, budism and so on. Very very dangeros, we see it around across europe, the ban on natural products, herbs and so on.
Artificial all the way.
edit on 29-11-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


the idea of communism is great in a perfect world. Since we aren't in one, it will not work. Nor will Marxism, or even capitalism for that matter. Some last longer than others, but in the end, imperfect world=imperfect people=chaos and change in the end. I don't know what God wants, I can only guess. I hope I am right, but I have no delusions to think that I hold that kind of knowledge. No man does. If you are told different, you are being lied to.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Freemasonry says that a man will enter the Celestial Lodge above if he wears the apron.


Ummm.....no, it doesn't.

And if you've got a reference for Billy Graham saying that about Southern Baptist leaders, I'd love to see it.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider

Later degrees or the York Rite does require you to swear an Oath to defend Christianity, though doesn't require you to be Christian that I recall.


Actually, the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar of the United States requires all candidates for admission to be Christian in faith, and must specify so on the petition.

Other Masonic bodies also require that candidates be Christians: Masonic Rosicrucian Society, Royal Order of Scotland, Red Cross of Constantine, C.B.C.S., etc.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by pepsi78
 


the idea of communism is great in a perfect world. Since we aren't in one, it will not work. Nor will Marxism, or even capitalism for that matter. Some last longer than others, but in the end, imperfect world=imperfect people=chaos and change in the end. I don't know what God wants, I can only guess. I hope I am right, but I have no delusions to think that I hold that kind of knowledge. No man does. If you are told different, you are being lied to.

Perfection can not be atained, only if you give up free will and become a good little robot. Let me make this clear, you die inside. I have been there, no perception of the self, you lose your feelings, you can not see good from bad because your are like a zombie walking around, take the red pill and you will see. Very very hard to pull out from it. It's the plan, they are never going to implement it, it's not going to make it. It's against creation it's self. It's the notion of the roman empire. While you are a little robot they live like kings on top of you. It's not going to happen. It's in the movies, it's everywhere. They even mock humanity by showing it and then having a good laugh behind the curtains because humanity has no such advanced knowlege to percive it, only some geeks that spend time on such forums like us. And you read in books such as the bible and god gave a flood, or books such as the book of enoch they consumend man acusition. It's going to happen once that takes place.
I don;t want to be an animated carcas mind dead. Sometimes god speaks to people, shows them when they are one step to disaster. I hold no hate regarded to masons, but it's what you will become.





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