We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

reply to post by videoworldwide


I agree with you, and I may have come across as too harsh in some of my posts in this thread. My view is that it has got to be obvious to anyone who is spiritually aware and can truly see people and not pawns. Ritualistic integration coupled with desire for self-aggrandizement equals the creation of a demon, for lack of a better word. People eventually believe their own lies and believe that the raw will to power is the will to do something for humanity. It is not. It becomes to raw will to perpetuate power and control, at any cost. It keeps us firmly entrenched in our cycles of destruction. Some masons have no clue. Others, they quite enjoy the rush that comes from manipulating and controlling somebody else. They quite enjoy keeping others in the dark. Too bad they are also keeping themselves in the dark. The mere notion of engaging in evil acts because good and evil have to play each other out is twisted and myopic. It delays the inevitable next step. It seeks to maintain the slave culture, the status quo of division. Too bad the era of divide and conquer is coming to a fast close. Finit.

I know many masons and some of them are as dumb as stumps.

Masonry is more of a social club then what it used to be. Masons built the pyramids around the world and held secret knowledge but those days are gone.

Illuminati are the luminated ones that hold the secrets of earth's many destructions and secret past. They know. They have a plan to save this planet and I think its the only way aswell.

There is no verse or passage in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan. The fall of Lucifer described in Isaiah 14:12 is likely the same that Jesus referred to in Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” A similar fall is depicted in Ezekiel 28.

Isaiah 14:12-18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer” in the King James Version and the “morning star, son of the dawn” in the NIV. Other Bible versions call him “Day Star,” “shining star,” and “the bright morning star.” These variations are due to differences of opinion about how to translate the Hebrew word helel. Regardless, the description of the one referred to shows us it can be none other than Satan. We know from Jesus’ own words in Luke 10 that Satan fell from heaven. So, when Isaiah refers to Lucifer or helel being cast down to earth (Isaiah 14:12), it can be none other than Satan. The reason for his fall is found in verses 13 and 14: “You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’” This has always been Satan’s desire – to be God, and it is the very temptation he used in the Garden of Eden to get Eve to disobey God: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5).

Ezekiel 28 is another passage thought to refer to Lucifer/Satan. Although it begins with Ezekiel being commanded by God to “take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre” (v. 12), an evil idolatrous king, it soon becomes clear that the passage is referring as well to the power behind that king—Satan. Verse 13 says he was “in Eden, the garden of God.” Clearly, the king of Tyre was never in Eden. Verse 14 says, “You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.” Apparently, Lucifer/Satan had a position of guardian angel in heaven “among the fiery stones,” thought to be the shining precious jewels that are seen in other descriptions of heaven (Exodus 24:10; Revelation 21:18-21). Since the king of Tyre was never in heaven, either, this can only be describing Lucifer. The rest of the passage describes the reason he was cast out of heaven. Because of his beauty, his heart became proud and his wisdom was corrupted (v. 17). Pride in his perfection, wisdom and beauty (v. 12) became the source of his downfall, and God threw him to the earth (v. 17). This was witnessed by the Lord Jesus in heaven before His incarnation (Luke 10:18).

To summarize, the Hebrew word helel is translated "Lucifer." He was cast out of heaven for his sin of pride and his desire to be God. Jesus referred to seeing Satan being cast out of heaven. Therefore, we can conclude that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

reply to post by PronoEast



oh noooooooos!


it appears that either Lucifer isn't meant as a term for the Devil, or Christians around the world are worshiping the bad man.

Look it up a bit more.

reply to post by network dude


The first reference to the morning star as an individual is in Isaiah 14:12: “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (NIV). The KJV and NKJV both translate “morning star” as “Lucifer, son of the morning.” It is clear from the rest of the passage that Isaiah is referring to Satan’s fall from heaven (Luke 10:18). So in this case, the morning star refers to Satan. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus unmistakably identifies Himself as the morning star. Why are both Jesus and Satan described as the “morning star”?

It is interesting to note that the concept of the “morning star” is not the only concept that is applied to both Jesus and Satan. In Revelation 5:5, Jesus is referred to as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. In 1 Peter 5:8, Satan is compared to a lion, seeking someone to devour. The point is this, both Jesus and Satan, to a certain extent, have similarities to lions. Jesus is similar to a lion in that He is the King, He is royal and majestic. Satan is similar to a lion in that he seeks to devour other creatures. That is where the similarities between Jesus, Satan, and lions end, however. Jesus and Satan are like lions in very different ways.

The idea of a “bright morning star” is a star that outshines all the others. Satan, as perhaps the most beautiful creation of God, probably the most powerful of all the angels, was a bright morning star. Jesus, as God incarnate, the Lord of the universe, is THE bright and morning star. Jesus is the most holy and powerful “light” in all the universe. So, while both Jesus and Satan can be described as “bright morning stars,” in no sense is this equating Jesus and Satan. Satan is a created being. His light only exists to the extent that God created it. Jesus is the light of the world (John 9:5). Only Jesus’ light is self-existent. Satan may be a bright morning star, but he is only a poor imitation of the one true bright morning star, Jesus Christ, the light of the world.

reply to post by PronoEast


so you agree that Jesus is Satan?

I don't believe that. I think maybe the bible is a better guide than a litteral refrence. Afterall, we stopped stoning people quite some time ago.

Originally posted by PronoEast
So, while both Jesus and Satan can be described as “bright morning stars,” in no sense is this equating Jesus and Satan. Satan is a created being.

and Jesus is the son of God. Another created being. God's only son.

How can you with any certainty, agree that the bible either misinterperts Lucifer, or flat out calls Jesus Lucifer knowing that you said the above?

Originally posted by felonius
Ok folks.

Let me put this BS to bed about we Masons being some sort of boogie man.

For gods sake if we were, our numbers would be a helluva lot better! I dont see many of the 20 somethings beating our doors down to get in...for that matter I have a pretty dim view of most of the lot. Lazy, self-absorbed, spineless, nancy boys that have never had their nails dirty.

I apologise to the 10% of them that are good young MEN.

We Masons have been being maligned since our "beloved" mother church decided she should "off" all of us. Then the "freak" christian groups/leaders that had some weird "anti facination" (?) with us. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

WE ARE FAMILY MEN. WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY (whats left of it). WE DONT MAKE A BIG DEAL OF OURSELVES.

WE AINT THAT POWERFUL!!!

You see us with our funny hats on streets corners. We are collecting for the hospitals so that crippled and burned children can get help... NO ONE is turned away.

You see us when you see the little box at a check out. That goes to help kids that cant get help anywhere else....NO ONE is turned away.

"OH, you just dont KNOW what REALLY goes on." yeah? think so?

We are here for the kids.....YOUR KIDS!

Well, I'll tell you what buddy. Put your money where your mouth is. How many kids has YOUR organization helped? Huh? OH. Dont belong to one. Hmm. Too busy I guess? BLOODY SURE NOT TOO BUSY TO BASH US!

I am a 20+ year Texas Mason. I have had the pleasure of "gripping " my brothers from Canada, England,Australia, Caribbean, and several states. WE ARE THE SAME!

I remember a brother from Australia. Had little tassles and bells on his apron. We had a polite chuckle at his expense but afforded him NO disrespect. That man knew his work! We have our regional differences is all. Hey, he maybe right with the "jingle bells". We didnt care. He was our brother.

Folks. There maybe members of my brotherhood that have forgotten there obligations. The politicians come to mind. They lost there way and could EASILY joined dark forces.

The rest of us did not.

Please, we ask for nothing but charity for the kids that isnt covered by our dues. Most of the doctors (if not all) are pro bono. Equipment isnt cheap though. Neither is building upkeep.

Please, consider when you see a lodge, realise that there are men and (and if an Eastern Star chapter is there) women that care. We dont want to rule the world. We just want to make it a little better for ALL of us. Even the bashers!

FIAT LUX!

KONX OM PAX!

 

Mod Edit: All Caps Title – Please Review This Link.

We'll see whos religion is false.
[edit on 6/27/2009 by JacKatMtn]

reply to post by network dude


I'm sorry network, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you are asking. Can you maybe rephrase? Thanks.

reply to post by felonius


I met a very good mason once and politician, his name was Max Sandlin. Incredible person, genuine and took care of his constituents.

reply to post by PronoEast

Isaiah 14:4 - That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

reply to post by PronoEast


you are using Bible verses to condemn masonry. You don't know what masonry is. You only know what you have been told masonry is. And sadly, the people who told you what masonry is, have an obvious agenda that even they don't remember where it came from. It amazes me that while ever mason believes in the same God you do, you (and by YOU, I mean all the Bible thumpers who use scripture against masonry) want to fight them, convert them, and believe that somehow, you are educating them. The religious demographics that make up masonry are various but are true to the area they are in. I am in the south, I consider my town to be the buckle of the bible belt. There are a lot of southern baptists here. They all believe in God and his son. They read the Bible. Some of them are masons.

You as a man have no right to tell anyone what their soul is going to do after death. You don't get to make that decision. You don't know what is going to happen to your soul. You only hope you are right. Same here. masonry teaches tolerance. That is a lesson I wish would be taught in church. Perhaps a quick look in the history books about the inquisition might jog your memory.

reply to post by network dude


Network, as I stated in my previous post, I have not been swayed by any religious group. It's not like I sat in a service one day and a preacher's message was, "Why Freemasonry is Evil." This is not the case. You are accusing me of something I am not doing.

It amazes me that while ever mason believes in the same God you do

Very, very wrong. All masons don't believe in the God that I do. I believe in the God of the Bible. I don't believe in any of these others that masonry approves as the person's "choice". I am not trying to fight or convert anyone. I'm simply giving my opinion on a public forum. I do, however, apologize if I have offended you or anyone else in any way. Or if I have been rude or unprofessional in my approach. That is not my intention in the least.

You as a man have no right to tell anyone what their soul is going to do after death. You don't get to make that decision. You don't know what is going to happen to your soul.

But, you see, this is not my message. This is Christ's message. So if you have a problem with Him telling people what will happen to their "souls", then take it up with Him and His Word. However, the Bible does command me to preach the Good News. And whether you consider it my opinion or whatever else, I DO know what is going to happen to me after death. That's my belief. But that's exactly right. I do believe in it with all of my heart. We can agree to disagree, that is fine. I won't let my pride get in the way with that if it is what you wish.

Originally posted by PronoEast

Very, very wrong. All masons don't believe in the God that I do. I believe in the God of the Bible.

you have been professional in your delivery, and I do appreciate that. But this statement comes from pure ignorance. With all due respect, you have no idea what I not anyone else believes. God is God. the one and only. He helps me when I need it, and I talk to him often. I don't have to go to church to do it, and we get along great.

You may find it easier to get the word out if you first listen then preach. But in this case, I will agree to disagree that your God is different or that you have a fast track to heaven.

Network, I am asking you from a point of view on Masonry and its' principles. What is the Freemason view on religion? If I'm ignorant, please educate me.

reply to post by PronoEast


each man should already have his religion figured out before he comes to masonry. Myself, I am a mish mash of Christian religions as I have yet to find one that encompass' all that I like. But I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, he died for my sins, and God the Father is my light. I know many devout Christians who are brothers. even a few preachers. Masonry doesn't claim to be a religion, or take the place of a religion. It can help you strengthen your religion by making you study more about what your religion teaches, or in how you act toward your fellow man. It offers no salvation. Only speaks of the spiritual building we all hope to arrive at once our time here is done. We use the term Grand Architect for God since not everyone calls him the same thing. When I pray, I pray to God. The same guy you know. Perhaps the only difference between your God and mine is that Mine is a master brewer and will have the finest beer ever drank, and will offer me one upon arrival should all go as planned.

reply to post by network dude


But that is my question Network. Does Freemasonry accept all religions and basically say that there are multiple ways to God? They do. And this is incorrect because you can only get to God through Jesus Christ, something these other accepted religions do not support.

reply to post by PronoEast


since masonry isn't a religion, it is not a way to God. Your personal religion is your way to God. Freemasonry is a fraternity. We say prayers at the beginning and end, but so do a lot of people at their dinner tables. I don't see you telling them they are damned. You believe that the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. That is your belief. As has been said, you may end up at the gates to find out that others who know God but never heard of Jesus Christ are there as well. Neither you nor I will truly know the answer to that until we die. Any thoughts otherwise are just theorys. You don't know for sure the sun will rise tomorrow. Nor do I. One who understands masonry knows that it doesn't conflict with any religion, it can only strengthen it. The problem you seem to have is it doesn't come out and preach that unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior, that you will not find eternal life. That message is one that comes from church, or from you on these forums. Nobody at work is going to tell you what to believe, and nobody in masonry will either. It's just that simple.

edit to add: you problem isn't with masonry, it's with every religion that is different than yours.

Originally posted by PronoEast
Does Freemasonry accept all religions and basically say that there are multiple ways to God?

No. Freemasonry accepts all religions because religious (and political) differences are divisive and peace and harmony come through tolerance of those differences. When we pray (in asking help for the sick, comfort for the bereaved, strength for the lodge, or whatever the prayer), you are free to pray to your God in your heart & mind, and I'm free to pray to mine. And neither of us is going to tell the other brother that he's doing it wrong, because that would just be rude. The point isn't that all religions are equal, it's that all men have the right to practice their religion equally.

reply to post by network dude


I agree with your statement that it is my belief that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. I have proved my point however that it is Freemasonry's stance that all religions are accepted. That is my personal fault with Freemasonry. Yes, I think that all other religions are incorrect, but this is my specific fault with masonry: it believes all religions are equal. As a man of a specific faith, that is wrong to me. So I'm glad we can finally agree and discuss this to this point. I appreciate your opinion network. It's always nice to be able to disagree and still have a pleasant conversation. Thank you for that.