We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

Umm Suz, it's unfortunate that you're probably not going to read this, but I've had off-topic posts removed as well, and justifiably so. It's not restricted to anti-Masonic viewpoints, despite what you may think.

The mods are just trying to do the best that they can in a forum that often contains heated opinions.

Rather than accuse them of being involved in some vast intra-forum conspiracy, you might want to examine why your posts were removed. Surprising as it might seem, the fault may actually have been with you.

Though Modern day Masons might not have strong Links to the "outer" organization:"Illuminati"founded by Adam Weishpault,Enlightened Masons do consider themselves to be the Illuminati:Which is the plural of the Latin word :illuminatus which means "enlightened".They(and other secret societies)Believe that by undergoing certain "inward"initiations and rites they can attain what they call"the ultimate illumination"from the sun god and hence become enlightened beings (illuminati).

[edit on 24-7-2009 by arth247]

Originally posted by arth247
They(and other secret societies)Believe that by undergoing certain initiations and rites they can attain what they call"the ultimate illumination"from the sun god and hence become enlightened beings (illuminati).

It has nothing to do with a "sun god". Enlightenment and illumination are metaphors for acquiring knowledge. Nothing more.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by arth247
They(and other secret societies)Believe that by undergoing certain initiations and rites they can attain what they call"the ultimate illumination"from the sun god and hence become enlightened beings (illuminati).

It has nothing to do with a "sun god". Enlightenment and illumination are metaphors for acquiring knowledge. Nothing more.

Well,masonry teaches its initiates The oneness of god and that the god is the source of all knowledge (Illumination),Just the way our earthly sun is the source of all light (illumination)in our world.So the term sun shouldn't be taken literally

I think arth247 brings up some good points the Masons and the Illuminati have stuff in commen, they both hope to become enlighten through rituals and rites, why the need for that?? can't you acquire knowlige withen your own walk with god without rituals and rites.

Both groups hope to attain lumination so i would say that's the reason the Masons get grouped in with the Illuminati.

I have no gripe with the Masons on here some seem real friendly i just think these men are walking the wrong path, and i do think the higher members of the group are involved with Bohemian Grove and the Bilderberg group and i would watch out for things like that.

Originally posted by King Seesar
I think arth247 brings up some good points the Masons and the Illuminati have stuff in commen, they both hope to become enlighten through rituals and rites, why the need for that?? can't you acquire knowlige withen your own walk with god without rituals and rites.

You certainly can learn and live spiritually without masonry. Masonry is only one path that can lead you down that road. there are many. It is just the path I chose and I am very glad i did.

Both groups hope to attain lumination so i would say that's the reason the Masons get grouped in with the Illuminati.

The only problem with this statement is that we still don't know if there is such a thing as modern day Illuminati. Except on ATS of course.

I have no gripe with the Masons on here some seem real friendly i just think these men are walking the wrong path, and i do think the higher members of the group are involved with Bohemian Grove and the Bilderberg group and i would watch out for things like that.

I am working on the list for the grove that you gave me. So far I am halfway through the first page and the only confirmed mason is Gerald Ford. I will give you a complete list of my findings when I am through with the list. I have no doubt there will be some masons on your list, but I think you will be disappointed with the amount that show up.

Just because you are a freemason does not mean you know what goes on at the top. Most Christians may be kind loving people but it doesn't mean the Vatican also is.

When it comes to lists of those who are freemasons who can you trust? It seems to me that the freemasons denials of who is, or Isn't a mason is just as suspect as the lists put forward by the extreme anti masons. . .

When it comes to determining who is or Isn't a mason use your own judgement. Remember that these people don't suddenly appear at the top of the tree pontificating their rules and laws down to us mere mortals. They are there because they have been adopted by the elite, who feel they can further their progress to controlling the planet.
Individual masons are not evil. But freemasonry, as far as I'm concerned, is. . .

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
When it comes to lists of those who are freemasons who can you trust? It seems to me that the freemasons denials of who is, or Isn't a mason is just as suspect as the lists put forward by the extreme anti masons. . .

Let's look at that, shall we? There can be only four possibilities:

1. Names of Masons, put out by Masons, which are true.
   
2. Names of Masons, put out by Masons, which are false.
   
3. Names of Masons, put out by anti-Masons, which are true.
   
4. Names of Masons, put out by anti-Masons, which are false.

For the sake of argument, we can assume lists made by both Masons and anti-Masons which agree with each other are true?

So then let us look at what's left: Anti-Masons lying by claiming someone is a Mason when they're not; and Masons lying by claiming someone isn't a Mason when they are.

So what are the possible motivations? Personally, I think Anti-Masons insisting Bush or Obama are Masons when it is not true do so because they believe in conspiracy theories that only work if there's an elite that's playing outside the system, not following the rules that the rest of society should follow. For lack of a better connection between these elite, the words Illuminati or Freemason or Bloodlines get bandied about.

But what would the motivation be for Masons to say someone isn't a Mason when they are, in fact, members? Embarrassment? I sure as hell wouldn't be proud of an idiot like Bush being a brother, but on the flip side I'd sit in lodge with Obama gladly. And I'm sure there are brothers who would swap those two opinions as well. But really, what's to be gained by hiding membership?

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


What I am trying to do is determine who on that list is a confirmed mason with proof. If I miss some, I am sorry, it's not because I am trying to hide their identity. I actually think it would be a cool thing to find out if the global elite is comprised of masons and if so, what percentage. Just because I am a mason, doesn't mean I am a liar. How about a collaborated effort on this project? I sure could use some help. It would be nice to see someone walk the walk instead of just talking.

reply to post by Majestic23


There is so much truth to that whole post of yours, majestic.

I also wanted to ask the masons, do you not believe that the goal of your entire group, in it's ritual teachings in integration, is transcending the opposites? I am referring to the meaning beyond charity work, which is a good thing.

Anyway, the question is, what sort of integration is to occur above the opposites? There is another duality to consider at this level. It is whether you reconcile the dualities in yourself with a full perspective with regard for the other, or if you reconcile the dualities in your self that were programmed by society. I am referring to the split aspects of yourself as they have been developed by imitation of perceived behaviors with the expectation of reward. If this is the unity transcending the duality, then you end up doing the will of the self without regard for the other, you become an agent of the beast, whether you believe so or not. You become the beast if you believe in the false image, and you then have fear of not being accepted according to this false image; you then look at yourself, as society defines you, becoming vain regarding your false self. You then become narcissistic, totally entangled over the false self; you then succumb to lust, to instinct, relying only on that lower binary center which society has programmed. We are programmed to be facades and caricatures in order to gain the most relative power and control and secrity, to do the exact opposite of what is in the collective interest.

Or, do you truly not judge and truly forgive, both self and other; do you see clearly through the illusion of the false image, not fear, look at the true nature of others, start to love the true nature of others, as you realize the symbiotic connection that can exist among us all, given the proper perspective of the previous sequence?

If you engage in sequence # 1, then you are an agent of destruction, not merely destruction of an aspect that needs to be destroyed, but you are an agent of categorical destruction and separation. If you engage in sequence # 2, then you are an agent of creation, of categorical creation and love (True connection). If you are not sure which sequence you fall under, then you are in the process of sequence 1, not quite finished, but serving its master. However, when sequence 1 is fully realized by the self or the whole, it dies, because it never existed as a being; it was always merely a machination. Then sequence 2 follows.

I might add that when sequence 2 occurs, there is a desire to be open, bring all things into the open. Secrecy betrays the process of sequence 1, the sequence of the false One. It also betrays that the highest one in this system has categorical diabolical power. I want you to be honest with yourselves. If you are not afraid of the truth, I want you to marinate in these words.

Also, I might add that it is obvious that anyone with the knowledge could choose either path. However, if you chose path 1 it would mean you were aware of path 2, otherwise there would have been no choice. If one were to do this, I believe that was what Christ was referring to in saying, "The only unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit." If one were to see the choices clearly, and have chosen the first, then that person would become the root of all evil on earth. The time has come to make our choices boldly. There is no fear.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys
Just because you are a freemason does not mean you know what goes on at the top. Most Christians may be kind loving people but it doesn't mean the Vatican also is.

But these do organizations operate in complete different fashions. All Master Masons can attend Grand Lodge sessions, and therefore can know what goes on at the top. If a Master Mason doesn't know, it's therefore his own fault for not attending to the meetings.

This is obviously different in Catholicism, where laymen are not allowed to attend meetings of the higher clergy.

reply to post by Masonic Light


But how can you know what is going on in their inner workings? With deep understanding of the spiritual/psychological underbelly, one can either bring things into the light, so to speak, uniting the inner with the outer and the outer with the inner, or they can be a master of divide and conquer, and hence a slave of the beast, so to speak. And both you and I know what this world rewards more, the latter.

And trust me, I am not saying that all Masons are bad. I have met some very noble, caring individuals at lower levels. I am just saying, that there is such power in these concepts, that it makes one seriously wonder why the world has not been made more loving if the goal of the order has been to do so. I regard a tree by its fruit. But maybe it is a slow process, I don't know. But I do know, that of those with an awareness of these concepts, many will choose to gain themselves a false status and material delights through the use of divide and conquer. It is everywhere around us. I am asking all, including myself, to be aware of underlying motivation, as it is a demon we must all confront.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by orwellianunenlightenment]

Originally posted by orwellianunenlightenment


But how can you know what is going on in their inner workings?

That's my point. There aren't "inner workings", and all Masons are entitled to be present at Grand Lodge deliberations should they so desire. The Grand Lodge itself is a representative body, usually composed of three elected representatives from each Lodge, each of whom have a voice and vote at all proceedings. But even those Masons who are not representatives can attend and inform themselves of what goes on.

This is obviously very different than the Vatican example. Freemasonry has both a democratic and republican form of government, whereas the Church does not.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant inner workings in the sense of their own thoughts, feelings, and perspectives. I am not talking about seeing what they plan during a meeting. I am talking about what goes on in their heads. It just seems to me that this type of knowledge is a double-edged sword. It can bring people together in love, or it can divide and conquer in a lust for power, control, and material possessions. I just think that as many as possible should know the inner workings of mankind in general, for there is a common thread. Then maybe the culmination of destructive selfishness will hurry up its arrival, and we can all come back together in love.

Originally posted by felonius
Ok folks.

Let me put this BS to bed about we Masons being some sort of boogie man.

For gods sake if we were, our numbers would be a helluva lot better! I dont see many of the 20 somethings beating our doors down to get in...for that matter I have a pretty dim view of most of the lot. Lazy, self-absorbed, spineless, nancy boys that have never had their nails dirty.

I apologise to the 10% of them that are good young MEN.

We Masons have been being maligned since our "beloved" mother church decided she should "off" all of us. Then the "freak" christian groups/leaders that had some weird "anti facination" (?) with us. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

WE ARE FAMILY MEN. WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY (whats left of it). WE DONT MAKE A BIG DEAL OF OURSELVES.

WE AINT THAT POWERFUL!!!

You see us with our funny hats on streets corners. We are collecting for the hospitals so that crippled and burned children can get help... NO ONE is turned away.

You see us when you see the little box at a check out. That goes to help kids that cant get help anywhere else....NO ONE is turned away.

"OH, you just dont KNOW what REALLY goes on." yeah? think so?

We are here for the kids.....YOUR KIDS!

Well, I'll tell you what buddy. Put your money where your mouth is. How many kids has YOUR organization helped? Huh? OH. Dont belong to one. Hmm. Too busy I guess? BLOODY SURE NOT TOO BUSY TO BASH US!

I am a 20+ year Texas Mason. I have had the pleasure of "gripping " my brothers from Canada, England,Australia, Caribbean, and several states. WE ARE THE SAME!

I remember a brother from Australia. Had little tassles and bells on his apron. We had a polite chuckle at his expense but afforded him NO disrespect. That man knew his work! We have our regional differences is all. Hey, he maybe right with the "jingle bells". We didnt care. He was our brother.

Folks. There maybe members of my brotherhood that have forgotten there obligations. The politicians come to mind. They lost there way and could EASILY joined dark forces.

The rest of us did not.

Please, we ask for nothing but charity for the kids that isnt covered by our dues. Most of the doctors (if not all) are pro bono. Equipment isnt cheap though. Neither is building upkeep.

Please, consider when you see a lodge, realise that there are men and (and if an Eastern Star chapter is there) women that care. We dont want to rule the world. We just want to make it a little better for ALL of us. Even the bashers!

FIAT LUX!

KONX OM PAX!

 

Mod Edit: All Caps Title – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/27/2009 by JacKatMtn]

Im glad someone finally said this, The masons as a whole i dont think are negative in any way. Just because a large portion of the higher ups are political officals and also part of the bilderburg group does not tarnish the entire group or it shouldnt anyways. I dont believe masons control the world either. There is a controlling party out there without a doubt.
my grandfather was a mason till the day he died. I dont believe that as many families i saw and heard about him helping over the years with paying bills and christmas and things that it was a cover for some dark secret.

On a added note i did think the the illuminati was the highest order of masons? is that not correct?

Originally posted by HHO TEK
On a added note i did think the the illuminati was the highest order of masons? is that not correct?

Not even close to correct. The Illuminati is a group which hasn't existed in over 200 years. From 1776 until 1785 they were in operation, and during that time they identified with the Masonic structure for degrees, etc. They went so far as to recruit prominent local Masons into their group. (which is why the two get tied together to this day)

Now days the Illuminati is a generic term bandied about by conspiracy theorists to give name to that which they can't otherwise identify. It's the boogie man that they tell their kids about at night to keep them in line. Nothing more.

reply to post by JoshNorton


I think there's at least a hint of proof or if you will things to look into regarding the Illuminati that make you go hmm, elites dressing in hoods doing mock sacrifices is a testament to this.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

I think there's at least a hint of proof or if you will things to look into regarding the Illuminati that make you go hmm, elites dressing in hoods doing mock sacrifices is a testament to this.

Except the Bavarian Illuminati did neither. If you want to tie the Bohemian Grove to the Illuminati, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

reply to post by JoshNorton


The Bavarian Illuminati could have done mock sacrifices you or me weren't alive back in 1776 so who knows, but i'm sure the modern day illuminati runs things different then they did in 1776 i'm sure just like every thing else they evolved, there's enough clues out there that even a big skeptic such as your self would still have to go hmm even if it were for a second.....just check out this thread for starters....

www.abovetopsecret.com...