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We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

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posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 
Jump in? Well, sorry to post a thought on a public discussion forum. Get a backbone? Have you ever even seen threads here? Really, don't fire from the hip.




posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Majestic23
Hypocrasy again. Anyone can read over these pages and see what the real state of play is. Nobody has once given me a detailed answer to anything. Just a bunch of cowardly Masons, twisiting and turning and acting like the weasly men they are so they dont have to admit they might be living a lie, same as all self-rightous people, no courage. Does that speak volumes about the type of man that enters to Masonic Order?

He can have his answer (which he clearly does not think will be worthwhile anyway) when he shows me the same courtesy. Thanks for jumping in Scoot.

What badgering by the way? Get some backbone.



So let me get this straight. You won't be happy unless the masons here admit that they have no idea what is going on at the higher levels. And that we are living a lie. Yet you cannot tell us where these "high level masons" conduct their business, who they are, or what their ultimate goal is. It would seem that you don't have as much information as you thought. You were asked a few questions which you deflected and blamed the masons for twisting and turning their answers.

I will issue you a challenge. I will personally answer anything I can and will do it with honesty and as completely as I can. then you will do the same for me. Is that fair?


That is exactly what I want to put forward yes. They have no idea what goes on at the higher levels and therefore the actual meaning of the teachings and goals of the group are unknown to them.

You will remember the theme of this thread is "Illuminati are not Freemason", I a millions of other people beg to differ, so what have you to suggest they arent related? I and millions of others have info that indicates they are related.

So what exactly is the point Masons are trying to put forward? That most Masons arent evil? Fine, top marks for stating the obvious.

Clearly they are just here to defend Masonry against any sort of accusation. Great, how are we going to learn anything from that?

For people who are supposed to seek knowledge and truth you spend a lot of time trying to stifle others when you have nothing to support yourselves other than deflecting arguments. Anyone readin this thread can see that is the case.

In the interest of actually learning something...

Freemasonry is based largely on Hermatic teachings yes or no?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by scooterstrats
reply to post by Majestic23
 
Jump in? Well, sorry to post a thought on a public discussion forum. Get a backbone? Have you ever even seen threads here? Really, don't fire from the hip.




You are like a gnat at a barbeque man, buzz off.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23


That is exactly what I want to put forward yes. They have no idea what goes on at the higher levels and therefore the actual meaning of the teachings and goals of the group are unknown to them.


What composes the "higher levels"?


You will remember the theme of this thread is "Illuminati are not Freemason", I a millions of other people beg to differ, so what have you to suggest they arent related? I and millions of others have info that indicates they are related.


What is the nature of that info?


So what exactly is the point Masons are trying to put forward? That most Masons arent evil? Fine, top marks for stating the obvious.


I think that most Masons here are attempting to help curious non-Masons come to understanding of Freemasonry, minus the fantasies put forth by the enemies of Masonry.




Freemasonry is based largely on Hermatic teachings yes or no?


I would say yes, Hermetic philosophy plays a large role.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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Hey, like, wow man, like buzz off man. Let me get out my Earth to 1970's Hipster decoder ring to answer this, man. Fire away from the hip. those shots never count. Seriously, you were challenged to ask questions, so will you try to disparage any legitimate answers? Or just try to ask/post more poorly worded barely intelligible ignorant screeds? Is this deflection? No.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
In the interest of actually learning something...

Freemasonry is based largely on Hermatic teachings yes or no?


Based on this I would have to say yes. Please forgive my ignorance in the terms used. I studied electronics and mechanical engineering. I hated philosophy in college and subsequently dumped all I learned to make room for other stuff. What else would you like to know?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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I think it's a four gone conclusion that the Illuminati infultraded the Masons, both societies were around about the same time, both were secret societies with very powerful men and that leads me to believe they joined, heck even some Masons joined the Illuminati because of there power and such, the same reason why i think Illuminatis joined the Masons



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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quote]Originally posted by Masonic Light
What composes the "higher levels"?

Its somewhat ambigous. Hierarchy cant change, its a function of society (those pyramid diagrams I gave were laughed off, despite the fact that it is clearly the way power is structured in society and Masonry). What is important to note is that information is distributed on a need to know basis.
Its not as though once you reach a certain degree you get told all the secrets of the universe as some might suggest. Again Freemasons are used as tools and thus are given the information they need to accomplish goals, nothing more. A low level Mason might be involved in TPTB while a high level Mason has nothing to do with it, just based on their place in society, work and their skillset and people they know. If a 33rd degree Masons is not useful to the PTB they will not be told anything.


Originally posted by Masonic LightWhat is the nature of that info?.


Its extensive and there for anyone to see and make their own assertions. Really, even on this site a lot of this info can be found.
If you are looking for definative evidence it will not be forthcoming, we are approaching a conspiracy of the scale that is almost impossible to imagine let alone fathom. It concearns human and godly history and consciousness and society. It is a subject of enormous magnitude.

Things have to be seen from a wider perspective before they appear to make any sense. Think that millions of people have done this research of their own accord (there is really no great personal gain or acceptance that comes from researching this aspect of the nature of our world) and come to the same conclusions, they have done so long before the internet.


Originally posted by Masonic LightI think that most Masons here are attempting to help curious non-Masons come to understanding of Freemasonry, minus the fantasies put forth by the enemies of Masonry.


This is the thing with Freemasonry and Masons as a whole, you preach sweetness and light however it is clearly not practiced.

For example the two main Masonic threads (created by Masons I may point out) are negative (this one and "is there an anti-mason hate group?") and only concearned with defending Masonry come Hell or high water. There are no threads or posts that relate Masonic teachings in a posative way (even when asked for). I know Masonic literature quite well, but I am not a Mason, I cannot put such info in perspetive or make it apply to my life or society because I do not practice it. You guys can theorhetically do that on this board yet it appears you choose not to.

As for fantasies of your enemies I may point out I have never created a life long arch enemy out of nothing, never mind numerous ones. There is no smoke without fire. Sure enemies could be put down to jealousy or vested interests. This does still not explain the sheer amount of enermies Masonry seems to have.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23

A low level Mason might be involved in TPTB while a high level Mason has nothing to do with it, just based on their place in society, work and their skillset and people they know. If a 33rd degree Masons is not useful to the PTB they will not be told anything.


If what you say is true, then the hierarchy you speak of would seem to have nothing to do with one's position or non-position in the Masonic fraternity. Which is basically what I've seen other Masons here saying as well.


This is the thing with Freemasonry and Masons as a whole, you preach sweetness and light however it is clearly not practiced.


The entire concept out of which Freemasonry was born is, in itself, the search for light. If it is not practiced, then neither is Freemasonry.


For example the two main Masonic threads (created by Masons I may point out) are negative (this one and "is there an anti-mason hate group?") and only concearned with defending Masonry come Hell or high water. There are no threads or posts that relate Masonic teachings in a posative way (even when asked for). I know Masonic literature quite well, but I am not a Mason, I cannot put such info in perspetive or make it apply to my life or society because I do not practice it. You guys can theorhetically do that on this board yet it appears you choose not to.


Actually, it has been done here often in the past. However, the moderators no longer allow non-conspiratorial oriented threads of that nature.


As for fantasies of your enemies I may point out I have never created a life long arch enemy out of nothing, never mind numerous ones. There is no smoke without fire.


I've never been one to support the "no smoke without fire" argument because it is fallacious. It assumes that just because someone says something bad about you, it must be true because it has been said by someone. Obviously, it's a circular argument.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
The fact that you dont know this is alarming.

images.google.co.uk...


So your evidence that Masons are controlled by the Jesuits and/or the Illuminati is: Michael Jackson, a Saturn Rocket, Pablo Picasso and a recently deseased celebrity. Brillant, the connection is so obvious. *twirls finger next to temple*


Pithy and inane argument. Why are you so ashamed to call it a religion?


Because it is not. Religion offers salvation, show me where Masonry preaches salvation.


Do it with your regular star then and see what occours.


Nothing, and that is the whole point, it does not work either way.


All you have to do is look. If you dont take it to have any meaning thats fine, again you will never learn because your mind is not open.


Then you will never explain life. Again this is your perogative.


Who said I was here to explain life to you?







[edit on 21-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
I and millions of others have info that indicates they are related.


Then why are you having such difficulty posting this inofrmation?

Besides of course Farah, the Gloved One, a rocket and an artist.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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This has really been a good thread back and fourth, i find myself on the anti-mason side, not saying there's bad masons on here or over the world, but i'v seen enough study from both sides and secret society's in general are never a good thing.........just my two cents...........



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by scooterstrats
Hey, like, wow man, like buzz off man. Let me get out my Earth to 1970's Hipster decoder ring to answer this, man.


What have you got against terminology from the 70's anyway? I don't have a go at you for using terminology from the 1800s...


Originally posted by scooterstrats Fire away from the hip. Those shots never count


If I keep firing one will hit eventually. I have so many bullets.


Originally posted by scooterstratsSeriously, you were challenged to ask questions, so will you try to disparage any legitimate answers? Or just try to ask/post more poorly worded barely intelligible ignorant screeds? Is this deflection? No.


...........ironically the only part of that paragraph that made sense was "poorly worded barely intelligible".

I told you why I didnt answer Fitzgibbon, that is that.

You can feel free to ask me anything and I promise I will make more effort with my answers.

May I apologise for my rather disrespectful approach to you, it has been a tough week at work and conversing with multiple Masons on this topic is enough to make anyone irate. I assure you this is not my usual demeanor and there is nothing personal about anything I say here.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
If what you say is true, then the hierarchy you speak of would seem to have nothing to do with one's position or non-position in the Masonic fraternity. Which is basically what I've seen other Masons here saying as well.


As so often occours with opposing sides of an argument, we arent so differant after all if we are genuinley trying to make sense of the world.


Originally posted by Masonic LightThe entire concept out of which Freemasonry was born is, in itself, the search for light. If it is not practiced, then neither is Freemasonry.


Yes but its one thing to say, and another thing to do.


Originally posted by Masonic LightActually, it has been done here often in the past. However, the moderators no longer allow non-conspiratorial oriented threads of that nature.


So I hear. I find this strange as Freemasonry has a lot to do with spirituality, the afterlife and higher knowledge. This is all very relative to conspiracy in that these are the most important things the powers that be seek to limit our knowledge of.


Originally posted by Masonic Light I've never been one to support the "no smoke without fire" argument because it is fallacious. It assumes that just because someone says something bad about you, it must be true because it has been said by someone. Obviously, it's a circular argument.


Very much so, and as others have said logically its quite likely some sectors of the Masonic orders at some time have been involved in some nefarious activley by the scale and nature of the organisation.

So you mentioned enemies. Could you expand on this please?





[edit on 21-7-2009 by Majestic23]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Okay, well would the masons here agree with this staement;

“Satanic Ritual is a blend of Gnostic, Cabbalistic, Hermetic, and Masonic elements, incorporating nomenclature and vibratory words of power from virtually every mythos .... Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots.”

- Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Rituals — Companion to the Satanic Bible, pp

I hear and respect what the masons here on ATS are saying but this kind of statement arises time and time again. Surely not everyone is wrong and that maybe something like described above is going on within freemasonry which you don't know about?

We keep going around in circles about satanism and the brotherhood. I can't accept for a moment that ALL of the masons here are involved in satanism but couldn't one of the biggest secrets of freemasonry be the fact that masonry, at its core is satanic, and that this is being withheld and kept secret from most of it's members?


Oh my god... you didn't just quote Anton LaVey as an authority on Masonic matters, did you?

Just because a satanist claims, co-opts, or steals elements of Masonry doesn't mean that they are Masonic, nor the other way round. The Mormons stole Masonic ritual as well, does that mean that Freemasons are Mormons, or that Mormons are Freemasons?

No, it doesn't.


Well tell me why satanists and occultists always take parts of freemasonry and make them their own? They must feel that the brotherhood is similar to them if they can so easily absorb elements of your precious cult. Surely thats obvious?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 


I am sorry to put you through this, and I truly hope your week at work gets better. I answered your question and I have a few of my own to ask you. I am not in a hurry for the answer, so take your time.
1. What constitutes a "High Level mason"?
2. Where do "High Level Masons" meet?
3. What is it that they want?
4. Are you sure?

Thanks in advance and please take a break from this if it starts to irritate you. It will keep you in good graces with TPTB on ATS.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
So your evidence that Masons are controlled by the Jesuits and/or the Illuminati is: Michael Jackson, a Saturn Rocket, Pablo Picasso and a recently deseased celebrity. Brillant, the connection is so obvious. *twirls finger next to temple*


You have gone on a real tangent there man.

The conversation went something like this.........

You "Not being supersitious I do not believe in magic."

Me "Your Masonic brothers clearly did."

You "To whom, specifcally are you refering?"

Me "The fact that you dont know this is alarming."

And then I gave a broken link. This should be the correct one.

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

So you can see how alchemy and mysticism are relevant to the Freemasons.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicusBecause it is not. Religion offers salvation, show me where Masonry preaches salvation.


Religion
Noun
1. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality".

2. Institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him".

And if you wanted to add salvation to that then knowledge acceptance and mastery of the afterlife is as good a salvation as anyone of us can hope for. This is literally "enlightenment" or "illumination" or arguably salvation.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicusNothing, and that is the whole point, it does not work either way.


Maybe on its own it doesant. But then one keeps seeing more and more of this type of thing. Perhaps when I mention the all seeing eye on also on the dollar you will say it is not Masonic, perhaps when I mention Masonic architechture in Washington and its street layout you will say its not Masonic. When I metion the Skull and Bones club you will say the skull and bones is not linked to Masonry etc...

This goes on ad infinitem. If the Masons are so concearned with denying all links to the secret government then why arent you refuting any of these things catagorically, all I hear is "coincidence". If you want to defend Masonry all you have to do is explain all these coincidences.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicusWho said I was here to explain life to you?


Apologies, when I said explain I meant understand.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 


Have you ever considered that the masons on here may not know about their fraternity's involvement with the NWO. We've got to stop gathering all freemasons together and accussing them all of being part of the NWO. They simply cannot all be in on it.
It seems to me that the masonic lodges may be hunting grounds for the NWO. A place where they can find and groom rich businessmen, bankers, members of the law and politics, and prepare them for greatness.

I dislike masonry but they really can't all be in on it can they?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
Based on this I would have to say yes. Please forgive my ignorance in the terms used. I studied electronics and mechanical engineering. I hated philosophy in college and subsequently dumped all I learned to make room for other stuff. What else would you like to know?


Not at all. It is no surprise you are left brained.

So, we see such mysticism in the Masonic teachings etc...

We also see such mysticism and numerology in events like 9/11, not only that, but the twin towers were built on a leyline (in fact at a node/chakra between them). You will find this corresponds with the mystic traditions that Freemasonry is built upon.

So I am of the opinion that the only group capable of doing this was the Freemasons or a group working through them.

Your opinion on this please.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic23

As so often occours with opposing sides of an argument, we arent so differant after all if we are genuinley trying to make sense of the world.


Agreed.




Yes but its one thing to say, and another thing to do.


Again, I agree. However, Freemasonry as an institution can only teach. Whether or not the members will actually put those teachings into practice is a different subject. The same can be said of other organizations.



So I hear. I find this strange as Freemasonry has a lot to do with spirituality, the afterlife and higher knowledge. This is all very relative to conspiracy in that these are the most important things the powers that be seek to limit our knowledge of.


I am far from convinced that the powers that be, in the secular world, hold any relevant spiritual knowledge, or even have any interest in it. In fact, I would argue the opposite, i.e., that they tend to be materialists with little understanding of the deeper meanings.



Very much so, and as others have said logically its quite likely some sectors of the Masonic orders at some time have been involved in some nefarious activley by the scale and nature of the organisation.


It is true that some individual Masons, and even groups of Masons, have been. But we must separate that from the idea that Masonic Orders themselves have been.


So you mentioned enemies. Could you expand on this please?


Freemasonry has long had various enemies. Most of them can be divided into two classes: religious or political.

Political enemies of Freemasonry oppose the fraternity's pro-democratic and pro-egalitarian nature. Religious opponents of the fraternity oppose the idea that spiritual truth can be communicated outside of established churches and approved dogma.


originally posted by Mintwithahole

Well tell me why satanists and occultists always take parts of freemasonry and make them their own?


While various occultists have been Freemasons, I'm not aware of a single "satanist" that has been. Indeed, as mentioned previously, "Satanism" is a reaction against Christianity, and has nothing to do with non-Christian organizations.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Masonic Light]



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