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We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

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posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.


Good moral character! Did I hear you right? Was Aleister Crowley, 33rd and 97 degree freemason,the infamous beast 666 of good moral character? How about Dr Wynn Westcott who was a member of the Order Of The Golden Dawn? Or how about Helen Blavatsky who wrote, "Satan is the god of our planet and the only god. Lucifer represents life, thought, progress, civilisation, liberty, independance. Lucifer is the logos, the serpent, the saviour.


Of the above three, the only one who was a legitimate Mason was Westcott. To my knowledge and belief, he was of excellent moral character.

Crowley was an irregular Mason. I consider him a very interesting writer and thinker. Whether or not he was "moral" I suppose depends on your definition of the word. He was not a thief or a murderer or a jaywalker or anything like that. He believed that Victorian morality was not really moral at all, and rebelled against it.

Blavatsky of course was not a Mason.


Seems to me that while modern day masons naively believe that when Pike referred to Lucifer he was not talking about Satan


Initiates know very well what Pike was talking about. It is not the Mason that is naive in this regard.




posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Co-freemasonry. . .freemasonry. . . Its all the same when you come down to it.


No. Not the same. Apples and oranges.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.


But Crowley thought he was a regular (can any of you really be described as regular?) freemason! For the love of all that is holy, how can I make you understand this.


No he didn't. He believed originally that the Lodge he joined in Paris was regular, but upon returning to England discovered that it wasn't. He had applied to the United Grand Lodge of England for the Royal Arch degree, and was denied for that reason.


Well the reverse is true with Crowley. . he was sick enough to want to join masonry because he thought you lot were just as bad as him and shared his views.


Wrong again. You obviously have not read much Crowley. I would suggest beginning with his autobiography "The Confessions of Aleister Crowley", where he explains the situation himself.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Anything satanic. . ! Okay, how about Helen Blavatsky who I mentioned earlier. Would you accept she was part of the masonic movement?


No. She was the founder of the Theosophical Society. She was not a Mason.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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Okay, well would the masons here agree with this staement;

“Satanic Ritual is a blend of Gnostic, Cabbalistic, Hermetic, and Masonic elements, incorporating nomenclature and vibratory words of power from virtually every mythos .... Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots.”

- Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Rituals — Companion to the Satanic Bible, pp

I hear and respect what the masons here on ATS are saying but this kind of statement arises time and time again. Surely not everyone is wrong and that maybe something like described above is going on within freemasonry which you don't know about?

We keep going around in circles about satanism and the brotherhood. I can't accept for a moment that ALL of the masons here are involved in satanism but couldn't one of the biggest secrets of freemasonry be the fact that masonry, at its core is satanic, and that this is being withheld and kept secret from most of it's members?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
And if freemasons are so against satanists and the occult in general please explain why the masons allowed The Golden Dawn to hold meetings in a masonic hall?


Freemasons are not "against the occult". I am a long-time student of the occult and student of the Golden Dawn.



[edit on 20-7-2009 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Co-freemasonry. . .freemasonry. . . Its all the same when you come down to it.


No. Not the same. Apples and oranges.


No, it's the same Apples and co-apples!!!



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Okay, well would the masons here agree with this staement;

“Satanic Ritual is a blend of Gnostic, Cabbalistic, Hermetic, and Masonic elements, incorporating nomenclature and vibratory words of power from virtually every mythos .... Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots.”

- Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Rituals — Companion to the Satanic Bible, pp


No. LaVey contradicts himself because he attacks Kabalism, Gnosticism, and all other mystical philosophies as "white light nonsense" in The Satanic Bible. However, it does seem true that LaVey plagiarized much of his stuff from earlier sources.

You also have to remember, the Church of Satan is not an "occult" organization. Their members are atheists and materialists, not mystics and occult philosophers. LaVey himself was far from an expert on occultism, and was completely ignorant on many points.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

So, if one holds Satan as God, then this is acceptable to Masonry?


No because Satan is

a) Not the Creator of the Universe

and

b) Not the Supreme Being


Doesn't make sense. By stating he is not, you are stating you know who is, yet you accept many faiths under Masonry, which have different Gods?


The notion of Satan is in opposition to that of the Supreme Being inasmuch as Satan is not a force for creation. Satan did not exist before the Supreme Being ergo cannot be the Creator.


Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
Either you believe there are many Gods, or you believe there is one God. If you believe there is one, the others do not qualify,


But you leave out the possibility that the same Supreme Being is known by different names in different religions. Thus while seeming to be a different god, all may in fact be the same Supreme Being.


Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
if you believe there are many, none is supreme, as I said before supreme means final or last.


Actually, supreme is meant as first and foremost. That's why potential Masons are asked if they believe in a Supreme Being. If he believes in a panoply of gods none supreme then he can't in good faith answer "yes" to the question in which case he won't be able to become a regular Mason.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
But our lodges (most of them) can be rented out as a way to make some money for upkeep on the building.


Just to make a semantic clarification here. Lodges are the groups of individuals; the building is not the lodge (though it may be referred to as such if there's only one Masonic group that meets there).



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


the only question you need to be able to answer is "who is your God?" you don't need to worry about who my God is, or whether or not they are the same guy. If I think you are praying to the wrong guy and I am right, then I convert you to believe in My God, what have I accomplished? And more importantly, what if I am wrong and you were right? then I have just dammed both of us. Or maybe he (God) doesn't care what you call him as long as you call him. Maybe the Bible is a guide to help people live better lives and isn't meant to be taken word for word, but fit into a context that applies to a situation. And maybe we are all here to learn to be better people for the next challenge. I don't know and won't know until I meet the next challenge.


I understand networkguy, that's why it made no sense to me. If I don't need to worry about who your God is (and I'm not), then why would masonry care if satan was ones God? If one is not empathetic, then they are apathetic.

For example, Christ did not want to go to the cross asking that it be taken away from him, yet he chose to go, doing something he did not want so that God's will be done.

He committed suicide for God. People don't like to admit that, but that is the truth according to the story. God profaned his inheritance. Jesus forbid them stopping him...that is suicide. It was prophesied in Isaiah 14 what he would do. He did and full filled the book written of him. "He is cast out of the grave, because he ruined his land and destroyed his people"...he is called Hilel, Son of the Morning, The one praising, and Lucifer...the one bearing the light.

He will give you Lucifer and make you a pillar in his temple. I understand. I understand truth can be seen contradictory because we are to "not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing"...this is the deep sleep over mankind (adam) even the purpose of religion....purposed to happen.

Exo 7:5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.

I witness his hand and it is not a metaphor. I hear him and it is not a metaphor. I receive his 3rd degree all day long....The ceremony is nothing compared to the real thing which does not stop, nor his passion quenched.

Always remember, he was rejected by the chief builders.

Peace



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
If I don't need to worry about who your God is (and I'm not), then why would masonry care if satan was ones God?


I think it would be a contradiction in one's philosophy. Satan is a figure who appears in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Therefore, the only people who believe that Satan exists are (some) Christians, Jews, and Muslims. I say "some" because many progressive Christians, Jews, and Muslims now also deny the literal existence of Satan, and see the character as a metaphor.

Regardless, since Satan is a character in those religions, and only members of those religions believe in his existence, he cannot qualify as a supreme being, because those religions hold him to be a created being, not a supreme one.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


lets talk about "TRUTH" as a word. My truth may be different than your truth, even if we both believe we are right. It is personal to me. there are things that are proven through science and therefore universal truths. But we are discussing personal truth. Call it faith. Since I can't introduce you to my God and let you shake hands with him nor can I show you what I consider to be evil. I personally don't think there is a guy with horns and a pitch fork guarding a firey place filled with tormented souls. that is my truth. I also think that God isn't a guy with white hair who sits in a big chair and smiles alot. I think God is the power that created everything and is there to guide us when we ask. I also think that evil is a force that presents an easier path down a road filled with bad choices. that is my truth. If you asked me if I believe in God, then the answer is a resounding yes. Sorry to ramble on that.

I think that someone who would worship Satan as opposed to God, is more than likely pretending to care about "evil" than actually doing it. they are attention seekers who are trying to mock the Christian ideas. that is just my opinion. So for someone like that to want to join a group who bases their teachings on God and the idea that he created everything would be more of a bad joke than anything else. They wouldn't enjoy any of the lectures, or the teachings. And they would have very little in common with the Brethren. If you could show me a person who thinks that Satan created everything and God was just hanging around, then we could have a discussion about that, but as It stands, a "Satanist" would not be a good mason and likely not admitted into the lodge.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Co-freemasonry. . .freemasonry. . . Its all the same when you come down to it.


No. Not the same. Apples and oranges.


No, it's the same Apples and co-apples!!!


this would be like a crazy guy who dressed up like a cop and wanted to direct traffic. Since he does have the uniform isn't he a cop? No, he is just a crazy guy in a cops uniform. The real cops are trained by an authorized school and take an oath to serve and protect. the crazy guy just smiles alot.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Co-freemasonry. . .freemasonry. . . Its all the same when you come down to it.


No. Not the same. Apples and oranges.


No, it's the same Apples and co-apples!!!


this would be like a crazy guy who dressed up like a cop and wanted to direct traffic. Since he does have the uniform isn't he a cop? No, he is just a crazy guy in a cops uniform. The real cops are trained by an authorized school and take an oath to serve and protect. the crazy guy just smiles alot.


Thats a bit long winded if you don't mind me saying so. Its more like a crazy women who wants to join the freemasons but can't as she is a women, she has the apron, believes in a supreme being (whoever he is?).So she creates her own lodge of female, or both sex lodges, which run on the same principles and tenets as the freemasons. Same with the black guys who want to join!



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


no, the post above that one was long winded.

the facts are that only a recognized lodge is actually masonry as far as regular masons are concerned. We aren't even allowed to speak to those lodges about the secrets of masonry. It's one of the rules.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
I think otherwise, I think you are naive.


Think what you may, I do not do things rashly and took over nine years before I asked the person who signed my petition to join the Fraternity.


If you see no relation the Egyptian and Kabbalistic magic there is no hope for you, good luck.


Not being supersitious I do not believe in magic.


Also, statements like "life is not that complicated" are pure nonsense just their to make it look like your argument is backed.


Once again, a matter of opinion. I feel if you are surrounded by people who you care for and they for you then life is indeed uncomplicated.


Masonry IS a religion, get that in your mind.


Religions offer salvation and Masonry does not, get that in your mind.


You dont think its a religion when it clearly is. You are like the Scientologist who thinks because a Christian or Jew can be a Scientologist that mean its not a religion. In any case you are of on a tangent again and not answering the question in context again.


Scientology is a religion and is recognized as such and I have not seen its followers postulate othurwise as they are the Church of Scientology.


You are going to have egg on your face when you learn the true meaning of that symbolism.


If I think that is what the symbolism represents to me what could it possibly matter if you feel it is otherwise? If I say certain symbols represent particular tenets of Masonry and you say, for example, 'No, no. They are in actuality representative of a Luciferian Doctrine', that is what you think and in no way sways me to think otherwise.


Its a simple concept (lol "parlour tricks"), if you are too slow to understand the ways a heirarchy works then that is your problem.


The parolor trick is the idotic M-A-S-O-N anagram on the back of the Dollar Bill. The other pictures you posted, instead of voicing your own opinion, are laughable evidence of what you postulate. What stops someone from replacing 'Global Elite' with (insert your perceived sinister group here) and insisting, just as you are, that it is correct?






[edit on 20-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
America is the new Roman Empire, look at Augustus' avatar.


Interesting. So, owing to the fact that I chose Augustus Caesar as part of my avatar means that the United States is somehow the new Roman Empire.

Hmmm....makes complete sense, works much better then the ridiculous theory that maybe I am of Italian ancestry and have an affinity for anything to do with Italian history.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
Oh, Augustus, leader of the NWO, please don't invoke your wrath on the poor souls at ATS!


While you have suffered greatly from my constant reminders of your beerless condition I just wanted to let you know one further horrific thing.......you are the droid I am looking for.



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