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We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

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posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 

As usual you're entirely missing the point. Crowley wanted, and thought, he was a mason.


You know, I did predict that you wouldn't get the Westboro reference and clearly you didn't. Anybody can hang out a shingle and call themselves baptists just as anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves a mason. Doesn't make it so though. That's why I was at pains to point out that there's regular and irregular Masonry of which Crowley was quite clearly of the latter. In case this is boggling your mind, irregular masonry is not recognised quite simply because its tenets don't conform with those of regular Masonry.

Did I mention that Crowley was a member of an irregular lodge? So don't go traipsing about slagging regular Masons for the actions of an irregular one. And don't go slagging Baptists for the off-the-wall behaviour of the Westboro Baptist Church. Same thing. Geddit?


But Crowley thought he was a regular (can any of you really be described as regular?) freemason! For the love of all that is holy, how can I make you understand this. Westboro, just imagine if I was sick enough to believe that all baptists were like that so joined up? Get me? Well the reverse is true with Crowley. . he was sick enough to want to join masonry because he thought you lot were just as bad as him and shared his views.




posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

It has nothing to do with Satan, Lucifer, or any other bad man. It is about God. Whomever your God is. You had a better argument with "some masons in the past were racists."


So, if one holds Satan as God, then this is acceptable to Masonry?


No because Satan is

a) Not the Creator of the Universe

and

b) Not the Supreme Being

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Fitzgibbon]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 


OK I do get where you are coming from. But you don't listen to our side at all. I can tell you that I go to almost all the lodge meetings since I am an officer. And I go to the Scottish Rite meetings we have in my area. And I actually AM a mason behind the doors that are locked to outsiders. Yet with all my access to what masonry really is, I must be hiding something. How about this, when you ask a question and you are really trying to learn something, listen to the answer. Ask 20 or 30 other masons and see if they give you the same answer. If you ask 100 people the same question and get about the same answer, it would stand to reason that they might be telling the truth. And then you have your theory that there is a global elite that secretly rules masonry. And that I am just a pee-on and have not real idea of what goes on behind the scenes. Well, I would submit that there is no Masonic group that runs things. Yes there are groups that have power and keep their identities secret, but they don't have to be masons to do that. We go to the lodge and try to live life the way we obligated ourselves to when we joined the fraternity. We don't strive for world domination. We don't even strive for Local city council domination. We just try to be good people. I am sorry it isn't glamorous and dangerous and exciting. I am sorry it isn't the makings for a Dan Brown book. But it is the truth.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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So Crowley wasnt a Mason?

For the sake of argument lets say he wasnt.

There is still all the 666 and Luciferic symbolism in Masonry dating back thousands of years.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
So Crowley wasnt a Mason?

For the sake of argument lets say he wasnt.

There is still all the 666 and Luciferic symbolism in Masonry dating back thousands of years.


"So Crowley wasnt a Mason?

For the sake of argument lets say he wasnt.

There is still all the 666 and Luciferic symbolism dating back thousands of years."

there, I fixed that for you. That is unless you have some proof that anything satanic is/was indeed masonic.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


I took an oath not to converse about the secrets of masonry with a woman, and atheist or a fool. Yet you list a woman as a mason/satanic leader as evidence for your argument. you might as well throw in a shrub and a rock. They are as much masons as Crowley and the woman you listed.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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I like etymology. Just thought some words backgrounds would help...

illuminati
1599, pl. of L. illuminatus "enlightened" (in figurative sense), pp. of illuminare (see illumination). Originally applied to a 16c. Spanish sect (the Alumbrados), then to other sects; since 1797 used as a translation of Ger. Illuminaten, name of a secret society founded 1776 in Ingolstadt, Bavaria, and holding deistic and republican principles; hence used generally of free-thinkers and sarcastically of those professing intellectual enlightenment (1816).

secret
1378 (n.), 1399 (adj.), from L. secretus "set apart, withdrawn, hidden," originally pp. of secernere "to set apart," from se- "without, apart," prop. “on one's own” (from PIE *sed-, from base *s(w)e-; see idiom) + cernere "separate" (see crisis). The verb meaning "to keep secret" (described in OED as "obsolete") is attested from 1595. Secretive is attested from 1853. Secret agent first recorded 1715; secret service is from 1737; secret weapon is from 1936.

mystery
c.1315, in a theological sense, "religious truth via divine revelation, mystical presence of God," from Anglo-Fr. *misterie (O.Fr. mistere), from L. mysterium, from Gk. mysterion (usually in pl. mysteria) "secret rite or doctrine," from mystes "one who has been initiated," from myein "to close, shut," perhaps referring to the lips (in secrecy) or to the eyes (only initiates were allowed to see the sacred rites). The Gk. word was used in Septuagint for "secret counsel of God," translated in Vulgate as sacramentum. Non-theological use in English, "a hidden or secret thing," is from c.1300. In ref. to the ancient rites of Greece, Egypt, etc. it is attested from 1643. Meaning "detective story" first recorded in Eng. 1908.

occult
1533, "secret, not divulged," from L. occultus "hidden, concealed, secret," pp. of occulere "cover over, conceal," from ob "over" + a verb related to celare "to hide," from PIE base *kel- (see cell). Meaning "not apprehended by the mind, beyond the range of understanding" is from 1545. The association with the supernatural sciences (magic, alchemy, astrology, etc.) dates from 1633.

hermetic
1605 (implied in hermetically), "completely sealed," also (1637) "dealing with occult science or alchemy," from L. hermeticus, from Gk. Hermes, god of science and art, among other things, identified by Neoplatonists, mystics, and alchemists with the Egyptian god Thoth as Hermes Trismegistos "Thrice-Great Hermes," who supposedly invented the process of making a glass tube airtight (a process in alchemy) using a secret seal.

Freemason
1376, originally a traveling guild of masons with a secret code; in the early 17c. they began accepting honorary members and teaching them the secrets and lore, which by 1717 had developed into the fraternity of Free and Accepted Masons. The exact origin of the free- is a subject of dispute. Some see a corruption of Fr. frère "brother," from frèremaçon "brother mason;" others say it was because the masons worked on "free" standing stones; still others see them as "free" from the control of local guilds.

crypt
1432, "grotto, cavern," from L. crypta "vault, cavern," from Gk. krypte, fem. of kryptos "hidden," from kryptein "to hide." Meaning "underground burial vault or chapel in a church" first attested 1789. Cryptic "hidden, occult" is first recorded 1638. Crypto- as a prefix meaning "concealed, secret" has been used since 1760. Cryptogram is from 1880.

cell
c.1131, "small room," from L. cella "small room, hut," related to L. celare "to hide, conceal," from PIE base *kel- "conceal" (cf. Skt. cala "hut, house, hall;" Gk. kalia "hut, nest," kalyptein "to cover," koleon "sheath," kelyphos "shell, husk;" L. cella "store room," clam "secret;" O.Ir. cuile "cellar," celim "hide," M.Ir. cul "defense, shelter;" Goth. hulistr "covering," O.E. heolstor "lurking-hole, cave, covering," Goth. huljan "cover over," hulundi "hole," hilms "helmet," halja "hell," O.E. hol "cave," holu "husk, pod"). Earliest sense is for monastic rooms, then prison rooms (1722). Used in biology 17c., but not in modern sense until 1845. Meaning "small group of people working within a larger organization" is from 1925. Cellphone is from 1984.

mason
c.1205, from O.Fr. masson (O.N.Fr. machun), probably from Frank. *makjo (cf. O.H.G. steinmezzo "stone mason," related to mahhon "to make;" see make (v.)). But it also may be from, or influenced by, M.L. machio, matio (7c.) which is said by Isidore to be derived from machina (see machine). The word also may be from the root of L. maceria "wall." Meaning "a Freemason" is attested from 1425 in Anglo-Fr. Masonry "stonework" is attested from c.1366.

third degree
"intense interrogation by police," 1900, probably a reference to Third Degree of master mason in Freemasonry (1772), the conferring of which included an interrogation ceremony. Third degree as a measure of severity of burns (most severe) is attested from 1866, from Fr. (1832); in Amer.Eng., as a definition of the seriousness of a particular type of crime (the least serious type) it is recorded from 1865.

compass
c.1300, "space, area, extent," from O.Fr. compas, from compasser "to go around, measure, divide equally," from V.L. *compassare "to pace out," from L. com- "together" + passus "a step." The mathematical instrument so called from 1387. The mariners' directional tool (so called since early 15c.) took the name, perhaps, because it's round and has a point like the mathematical instrument. The word is in most European languages, with a mathematical sense in Romance, a nautical sense in Gmc., and both in Eng.

square
c.1300, "tool for measuring right angles," from O.Fr. esquire "a square, squareness," from V.L. *exquadra, from *exquadrare "to square," from L. ex- "out" + quadrare "make square," from quadrus "a square," from quattuor "four" (see quart). Meaning "rectangular shape or area" is first recorded before 1382; replaced O.E. feower-scyte. Sense of "open space in a town or park" is from 1687. The mathematical sense of "a number multiplied by itself" is first recorded 1557. The verb is first attested 1382; with ref. to accounts, from 1815.

plumb
c.1300, "lead hung on a string to show the vertical line," from O.Fr. *plombe, plomme "sounding lead," from L.L. *plumba, originally pl. of L. plumbum "lead," the metal, of unknown origin, related to Gk. molybdos "lead" (dial. bolimos), probably from an extinct Mediterranean language, perhaps Iberian. The verb is first recorded c.1380, with sense "to immerse;" meaning "take soundings with a plumb" is first recorded 1568; fig. sense of "to get to the bottom of" is from 1599. Plumb-bob is from 1835. Adj. sense of "perpendicular, vertical" is from c.1460; the notion of "exact measurement" led to extended sense of "completely, downright" (1748), sometimes spelled plump or plunk.

That's a start....www.etymonline.com... one of my favorite sights.

Good to know what the words mean, as they were uttered to mean, not what we place on them....makes things not so scary...

Peace



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Anything satanic. . ! Okay, how about Helen Blavatsky who I mentioned earlier. Would you accept she was part of the masonic movement?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Majestic23
 


OK I do get where you are coming from. But you don't listen to our side at all. I can tell you that I go to almost all the lodge meetings since I am an officer. And I go to the Scottish Rite meetings we have in my area. And I actually AM a mason behind the doors that are locked to outsiders. Yet with all my access to what masonry really is, I must be hiding something. How about this, when you ask a question and you are really trying to learn something, listen to the answer. Ask 20 or 30 other masons and see if they give you the same answer. If you ask 100 people the same question and get about the same answer, it would stand to reason that they might be telling the truth. And then you have your theory that there is a global elite that secretly rules masonry. And that I am just a pee-on and have not real idea of what goes on behind the scenes. Well, I would submit that there is no Masonic group that runs things. Yes there are groups that have power and keep their identities secret, but they don't have to be masons to do that. We go to the lodge and try to live life the way we obligated ourselves to when we joined the fraternity. We don't strive for world domination. We don't even strive for Local city council domination. We just try to be good people. I am sorry it isn't glamorous and dangerous and exciting. I am sorry it isn't the makings for a Dan Brown book. But it is the truth.


I have no problem with that and neither should any reasonable person, but the Masons most likely have been used by TPTB and still might be. As I said the nature of the organisation makes it perfect for use as a cover.

It is hardly reasonable you keep coming with this idea that anybody who says anything bad about the Masons thinks they are all blood drinkers plotting the NWO. Again, nobody in their right mind thinks all Masons are evil just like nobody in their right mind thinks all Masons are pillars of rightousness.

Lets take the police as an example. I dont have any disrespect for your average street copper, some are good and some bad like in any demographic or area of society. They are still the tool of TPTB though.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by network dude
 


Anything satanic. . ! Okay, how about Helen Blavatsky who I mentioned earlier. Would you accept she was part of the masonic movement?
No. She doesn't have the right equipment to be a Mason. Namely, external genitalia...



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
How have the rest of us got by for so long without having the freemasons to teach us the difference between right or wrong?


If you don't know right from wrong without Masonry, how on Earth do you function in society? Masonry is about actually applying the values of society as opposed to just talking about applying them.

If you can do this to the same degree outside of Masonry, bully for you and charge on regardless.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by network dude
 


Anything satanic. . ! Okay, how about Helen Blavatsky who I mentioned earlier. Would you accept she was part of the masonic movement?
No. She doesn't have the right equipment to be a Mason. Namely, external genitalia...


Oh right, What about Annie Beasant then?

Annie Besant (October 1, 1847 - September 20, 1933) was responsible for founding the British Federation of the International Order of Co-Freemasonry. Besant was intimately involved with Fabian socialism and was a member of the Fabian Society. Having been converted to the teachings of the Theosophical Society after a review of Madame Blavatsky's The Secret Doctrine, she joined the organization, rose in the ranks, becoming its European, and finally, worldwide head

Co-freemasonry. . .freemasonry. . . Its all the same when you come down to it. They believed what you believe, had family who were masons but fournd themselves unable to due to their sex. Good job they weren't black as well Isn't it? Oh thats right, you made them open their lodges as well didn't you?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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And if freemasons are so against satanists and the occult in general please explain why the masons allowed The Golden Dawn to hold meetings in a masonic hall?

From the beginning, the ceremonies of Isis-Urania were conducted at Mark Masons’ Hall in Great Queen Street (now demolished) but members were careful not to embarrass the Masonic authorities, being told that they ‘must not enter Mark Masons’ Hall by the front door, but go under archway and down passage, entering by a door on the right”

- A. Gilbert, Golden Dawn Companion, p 31.

Please if anyone states that they didn't like the group hence the reason they were told to enter by the side door, I swear I'll run amok with a meat clevver!



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23

Lets take the police as an example. I dont have any disrespect for your average street copper, some are good and some bad like in any demographic or area of society. They are still the tool of TPTB though.



well then I guess by that logic, the street sweeper is a tool for TPTB. If there is a secret group of people who want to control us, there may be a mason or two in the group. Since they are a secret group, we may never know. But the things we as masons hold dear, are the opposite of power hungry people.

In fact, the secrets that everyone is so worked up about are symbolic. When the original stone masons were around, they used geometry and special tools to make their stones square and to incorporate their trade into the architecture they were hired to build. They kept their ways a secret so they would have job security. They would let people become members of their secret group, but they had to be good craftsmen and had to be able to keep the secrets. If an original stone mason decided to spill the beans to anyone who would listen, he would be taking money out of the hands of people who trusted him. In todays society and the group of SPECULATIVE masons that exist, there is no need to have secrets to preform any tasks that bring us money. everything is symbolic. Hence the symbols. If you can make a square, compasses, plumb, level, gavel, or any other working tool of the symbology of masonry evil, then I guess we are evil. I just don't think it works that way.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


you do know that the quilting sisters of greater New Jersey could rent the local lodge to have a "quilt off" right? Would that make masonry a bunch of quilters, or would it just make them warm at night?

edit to add:
no women can be a mason. A mason as recognized by the Grand Lodge of NC which is who I answer to. And not by the UGLE which is who my Grand Lodge was chartered from. So anyone can call themselves masons, but until they have a charter from a recognized masonic body, they are just a group of people who wishing they were masons.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by network dude]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

It has nothing to do with Satan, Lucifer, or any other bad man. It is about God. Whomever your God is. You had a better argument with "some masons in the past were racists."


So, if one holds Satan as God, then this is acceptable to Masonry?


No because Satan is

a) Not the Creator of the Universe

and

b) Not the Supreme Being

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Fitzgibbon]


Doesn't make sense. By stating he is not, you are stating you know who is, yet you accept many faiths under Masonry, which have different Gods?

Either you believe there are many Gods, or you believe there is one God. If you believe there is one, the others do not qualify, if you believe there are many, none is supreme, as I said before supreme means final or last. Many of the brothers Gods will die under the one, so then, who is the one who is creating who is the last or final?

Thanks



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


you do know that the quilting sisters of greater New Jersey could rent the local lodge to have a "quilt off" right? Would that make masonry a bunch of quilters, or would it just make them warm at night?


Okay my friend, I thought the lodges were closed off to outsiders, non masons. Only fairly recently have they held open days etc, but as far as I'm aware they don't happen often. Are you seriously saying that if the local satanic society near you approached your masonic leader and asked to "Rent out his hall", they would be allowed to?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


the only question you need to be able to answer is "who is your God?" you don't need to worry about who my God is, or whether or not they are the same guy. If I think you are praying to the wrong guy and I am right, then I convert you to believe in My God, what have I accomplished? And more importantly, what if I am wrong and you were right? then I have just dammed both of us. Or maybe he (God) doesn't care what you call him as long as you call him. Maybe the Bible is a guide to help people live better lives and isn't meant to be taken word for word, but fit into a context that applies to a situation. And maybe we are all here to learn to be better people for the next challenge. I don't know and won't know until I meet the next challenge.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Okay my friend, I thought the lodges were closed off to outsiders, non masons. Only fairly recently have they held open days etc, but as far as I'm aware they don't happen often. Are you seriously saying that if the local satanic society near you approached your masonic leader and asked to "Rent out his hall", they would be allowed to?


I don't think that if they identified themselves as such, that the local lodge would rent to them due to the fact that they would be making that judgement as an individual. But our lodges (most of them) can be rented out as a way to make some money for upkeep on the building. We would much rather rent it to the quilting ladies than the blood sucking satanists down the street. they leave things such a mess.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Majestic23
So Crowley wasnt a Mason?

For the sake of argument lets say he wasnt.

There is still all the 666 and Luciferic symbolism in Masonry dating back thousands of years.


"So Crowley wasnt a Mason?

For the sake of argument lets say he wasnt.

There is still all the 666 and Luciferic symbolism dating back thousands of years."

there, I fixed that for you. That is unless you have some proof that anything satanic is/was indeed masonic.


Most religions have a light bearer/Lucifer/Satan element. Masonry is clealry based on a number of pre-established spiritual ideas. Does this mean that Masonry has nothing to do with Luciferianism?
Masons are the one of the few ones that deal directly with a kingly character as the the lightbringer. I dont know if you guys agree but I follow that the etomology of Hiram Abiff means 'lost/hidden king.

What seems to defines Freemasonry to me is the use of magic for the purpose of the gaining esoteric knowledge and power.

The concept that the world is ruled by a very different set of persons that we read about in the press is a common belief held by numerous modern conspiracy theorists and historians, and its the central theme of Freemasonry. Our political leaders must pay homage to the King of Kings; we live in an economic dictatorship ruled by an anonymous and hidden tyrant of tyrants, a magician (spiritualist) who represents all that the Christians, Muslims and Jews consider to be the Anti-Christ, Ad Dijall, Anti-Messiah.

Now I am unsure exactly to who is the good side or the bad side. Perhaps they are all working for the same purpose along with the Masons yet nobody knows it. Perhaps Hiram is the avatar of the subtle energy forces of God and the light of illumination is just that.

I do not have the knowledge to. However I can call things as I see them.

I see Masonry has a lot of links to ancient mysticism, I see that use and belief of magic is still widespread and involved with some truly unwholesome (in our perspectives atleast) activities. I see that a lot of influential people are Masons and the belief system (arguably) of the Masons which could fuel a desire to accomplish "a great work", with its organisational structure, lends itself to covert control of society if needed.
I would be a fool not to consider this.

Let me clarify I feel most religions and Masonry had very pure and honarable beginnings. I feel most of them have been infiltrated and hi-jacked by malevolant forces.



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