We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Fitzgibbon....thank you.

Great responses from you men. Thanks

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


please read this

when you are presenting information as fact, please make sure they are indeed facts.
Thanks and have a nice day.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Haven't mastered the difference between regular and irregular Masonry, have you (Pike notwithstanding)? You insist on tarring all who range themselves under regular Freemasonry's banner because there's some irregular masons whose actions fit your personal world view? That's like damning all Baptists for the behaviour of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Of course, I'm sure the analogy will be lost upon you.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Fitzgibbon]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Even if they weren't, as long as you're of mature age (varies by jurisdiction), believe in a Supreme Being and are of good moral character, there shouldn't be anything to stop you.

Good moral character! Did I hear you right? Was Aleister Crowley, 33rd and 97 degree freemason,the infamous beast 666 of good moral character? How about Dr Wynn Westcott who was a member of the Order Of The Golden Dawn? Or how about Helen Blavatsky who wrote, "Satan is the god of our planet and the only god. Lucifer represents life, thought, progress, civilisation, liberty, independance. Lucifer is the logos, the serpent, the saviour.
Seems to me that while modern day masons naively believe that when Pike referred to Lucifer he was not talking about Satan, Blavatsky was under no delusion what masons meant when they mentioned Lucifer. She was talking about the only god (as far as she was concerned). The one true supreme being. . . Mind you that fits in well with the masonic belief in a supreme being doesn't it?
If these are your ideas of people with "good moral character" then I'll pass if you don't mind.

I'm not a mason, but just wanted to remind you.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

Satan means adversary. If you are against God, He is your Adversary. Not saying you are, but it is good to keep things in perspective. If I create you knowing you will do bad, I have done bad. The buck stops at the creator.

Luk 6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

Peace

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

please read this

when you are presenting information as fact, please make sure they are indeed facts.
Thanks and have a nice day.

Why don't you read it more closely? Crowley wanted to be a mason because he agreed with it's beliefs. He wanted to be one so much that he was hurt when the elitist London masons wouldn't recognise him as a member of the cult. So here we have the worlds most wickedest man wanting to be a freemason because he agrees wholeheartedly with its belief system!!
Doesn't that set off alarm bells? This guy wasn't tinker bell! This is a guy who earned the title, The Beast 666. And he fealt he outlet for his beliefs in the ranks of freemasonry.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

Why don't you read it more closely? Crowley wanted to be a mason because he agreed with it's beliefs.

Mint,

You take others to task reading comprehension. What part of this quote eluded your vise-like grasp? (bolding added for your reading pleasure)

"Crowley joined a French Grand Lodge which was unrecognized by 'mainstream' Freemasonry. In fact, one of Crowley's well-known writings expresses his great disgust when he wasn't acknowledged as a Mason by those in London, his home at the time"

Did you miss my earlier comment of regular vs irregular Masonry? This would be a perfect example of the latter.

HTH
Fitz

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


so you posted information that he was a 33rd and 97th degree Freemason, and when provided with the facts that he was not a Freemason at all, you say that because he wanted to be one, freemasonry is evil? For real? That is a silly argument. What freemasonry stand for and is about is in print all over the internet. And even in some books. (they used to be the way we got information) It has nothing to do with Satan, Lucifer, or any other bad man. It is about God. Whomever your God is. You had a better argument with "some masons in the past were racists."

edit to add:

you have just disproved your own argument. He was considered an evil man and for whatever reason, was not admitted into masonry. Since it takes a man of good moral fiber to become one.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by network dude]

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

As usual you're entirely missing the point. Crowley wanted, and thought, he was a mason. The fact he wasn't doesn't come into it! He wanted to be a mason because he fealt that they, you, shared his beliefs and views. Do you like being compared to the Beast 666? Because let me tell you if he was alive today he would feel that you as a mason would be ideal company to pass away those long winter evenings with.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

As usual you're entirely missing the point. Crowley wanted, and thought, he was a mason. The fact he wasn't doesn't come into it! He wanted to be a mason because he fealt that they, you, shared his beliefs and views. Do you like being compared to the Beast 666? Because let me tell you if he was alive today he would feel that you as a mason would be ideal company to pass away those long winter evenings with.

so If Ted Bundy thought you were a cool cat because of the way you talk on the internet, that would make you a mass murderer right? Logic, it's a killer when used to fight untruths.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

so you posted information that he was a 33rd and 97th degree Freemason, and when provided with the facts that he was not a Freemason at all, you say that because he wanted to be one, freemasonry is evil? For real? That is a silly argument. What freemasonry stand for and is about is in print all over the internet. And even in some books. (they used to be the way we got information) It has nothing to do with Satan, Lucifer, or any other bad man. It is about God. Whomever your God is. You had a better argument with "some masons in the past were racists."

Its the same old story Isn't it? Try to twist an argument out of shape so you can try to discredit it. Shame. . .
Crowley took his 3rd degree in the Anglo Saxon Lodge no 343 in Paris. Since the title has Anglo in it I think he can be forgiven for believing that his degree would put him in good standing with the cult back home in England. The fact it didn't is not in question. The fact that he thought the freemasons would provide him with a good outlet for his particular beliefs is what I'm getting at.
The Beast 666 agreed with your beliefs. Surely you can't be proud of that. . . can you?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Do you like being compared to the Beast 666?
...
The Beast 666 agreed with your beliefs. Surely you can't be proud of that. . . can you?

Honestly? Sure. Why not. I've never seen a shred of evidence that he actually did anything "evil". Was he a blowhard? an egoist? Sure. Did he roast babies in his basement and serve them with tea? I've seen no proof of such allegations.

[edit on 7/20/2009 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

As usual you're entirely missing the point. Crowley wanted, and thought, he was a mason. The fact he wasn't doesn't come into it! He wanted to be a mason because he fealt that they, you, shared his beliefs and views. Do you like being compared to the Beast 666? Because let me tell you if he was alive today he would feel that you as a mason would be ideal company to pass away those long winter evenings with.

so If Ted Bundy thought you were a cool cat because of the way you talk on the internet, that would make you a mass murderer right? Logic, it's a killer when used to fight untruths.

If Bundy said something like that I would take a good long look at myself and wonder how a mass murderer and rapist thought I could ever be his friend. Yes, your right. So do you like the fact that Crowley thought you would be excellent company?

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Do you like being compared to the Beast 666?
...
The Beast 666 agreed with your beliefs. Surely you can't be proud of that. . . can you?

Honestly? Sure. Why not. I've never seen a shred of evidence that he actually did anything "evil". Was he a blowhard? an egoist? Sure. Did he roast babies in his basement and serve them with tea? I've seen no proof of such allegations.

[edit on 7/20/2009 by JoshNorton]

Congratulations. A mason who can actually tell the truth and give an honest answer. A rarity indeed. . .

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Congratulations. A mason who can actually tell the truth and give an honest answer. A rarity indeed. . .

Can you show any evidence of a Mason here on ATS purposefully telling a lie?

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Majestic23
Quit being so slow. America is the new Roman Empire, look at Augustus' avatar.

And there you have it sports fans. the leader of the NWO has been found. No further searching is needed. And to think that he was here all this time. he was even listening to our conversations!

Oh, Augustus, leader of the NWO, please don't invoke your wrath on the poor souls at ATS!

Again taking things out of context. The techniques you as a group use are honestly pathetic and your attitude on this surprises me Network, I am sure the blatant links between the Roman Empire, the Masons and America are not hard for you to see if you were to look. As I said, I am unbiased about the Masons, yet the Masons here have somehow managed to make me see them in an unfavourale light by their own actions.

Originally posted by network dude Majestic23, just for future reference, if you ask a person a question and they give you their answer to that question, they did their part.

If you are wrong you are wrong. This thread argues catagorically the Masons are not connected to the Illuminati. As I said the burden of proof is therefore on you and none of you have brought forward any good information let alone evidence to back up your claims.

Originally posted by network dudeWeather or not you believe that answer is completely up to you, but thinking that you know all the answers, why ask questions at all?

Its a discussion forum, I have a lot to learn.

However its not as thought I havent done my homework Dude. I know a lot about the teachings of masonry ( more than a lot of Masons it seems) and I have done a lot of research into many aspects of history and conspiracy theory of everything and spiritualism. I have no ego about this stuff, I dont have anything to prove to anyone or myself. I honestly want to know where the Masons fit in with the grand scheme of things and how far their teachings go.
Ive therefore looked into both sides of the argument, it would seem the people defending the Masons here have no looked much into either.

The problem is mosts Masons dont want to learn. I cant have a conversation with Masons on a conspiracy site because most of them dont have the relevant research info to understand what I am talking about.
I can be talking about the most important base teachings of the Masons and Masons are telling me I am lunatic fringe for doing!

Then they try and tell me thousands of years of Masonry basically boils down to wanting to do good deeds. It feels like Sunday school. Its like me asking a question to a Christian and them saying "Well here in the Bible it says...".

And how far exactly am I to suspend my disbelief? How many times do you want people to turn a blind eye or put things down to co-incidence and not look after themselves or try to gain knowledge useually reserved for the initiate?

If the Masons on here are happy with what they are learning then thats cool. But dont try and stunt other peoples spiritual knowledge and growth just because it steps on the toes of an massive very old world spanning organisation that just by sheer probability has had a hand in world events and clearly has symbolism of the mystics all over it.

Its easy to put down my pov and many others as fantasy, delusional or the product of some unspecified vendetta or misguidance.

Its not so easy to convince me that the case is so because my beliefs are based on logic and reasoning and a lot of circumstancial evidence.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

It has nothing to do with Satan, Lucifer, or any other bad man. It is about God. Whomever your God is. You had a better argument with "some masons in the past were racists."

[edit on 20-7-2009 by network dude]

So, if one holds Satan as God, then this is acceptable to Masonry?

This always made me think.

"There has never been a war fought in the name of Satan"...

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


I guess you missed the point again. I have no control over what another person thinks of me or any organization I may be a part of. YOU DON'T EITHER. Please tell us what you know for a fact that masonry as a whole has done that is bad. Anything that is a fact will do.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Congratulations. A mason who can actually tell the truth and give an honest answer. A rarity indeed. . .

Can you show any evidence of a Mason here on ATS purposefully telling a lie?

Like I've said right from the start, I think you're all told the same lies the moment you walk through the lodges door and think that wearing white gloves and an apron, and sharing in some secrets, which we now learn aren't secrets, make you a better man. It doesn't1

How have the rest of us got by for so long without having the freemasons to teach us the difference between right or wrong?

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

It has nothing to do with Satan, Lucifer, or any other bad man. It is about God. Whomever your God is. You had a better argument with "some masons in the past were racists."

[edit on 20-7-2009 by network dude]

So, if one holds Satan as God, then this is acceptable to Masonry?

This always made me think.

"There has never been a war fought in the name of Satan"...

No but since scripture says, Thou Shalt No Kill, I wouldn't go bragging about wars done in the name of god!

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

As usual you're entirely missing the point. Crowley wanted, and thought, he was a mason.

You know, I did predict that you wouldn't get the Westboro reference and clearly you didn't. Anybody can hang out a shingle and call themselves baptists just as anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves a mason. Doesn't make it so though. That's why I was at pains to point out that there's regular and irregular Masonry of which Crowley was quite clearly of the latter. In case this is boggling your mind, irregular masonry is not recognised quite simply because its tenets don't conform with those of regular Masonry.

Did I mention that Crowley was a member of an irregular lodge? So don't go traipsing about slagging regular Masons for the actions of an irregular one. And don't go slagging Baptists for the off-the-wall behaviour of the Westboro Baptist Church. Same thing. Geddit?