We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Which one? Could you repeat the question before flying off the handle? There's been some crap in this thread that I've glossed over because I actually DO have better things to do with my time than read ATS all day...

Flying off the handle, I was hardly flying off the handle. Oh look, we have the other classic Mason's trait. Inferring things by manipulation of language and suggestion.
If you have better things to do than read ATS all day then good for you! Dont jump in though if you cant keep up. How slow do you read anyway? Are you running on a 56k modem or something? Its not 98 anymore pops!

Originally posted by JoshNortonYou're ignorant if you think there's only one secret government.

Again, you are suggesting I am ignorant for an assumption YOU have made. Take it with a pinch of salt man!

Originally posted by JoshNorton And yes, there might be members any any of them who are also Masons. Doesn't make said governments part of any Masonic plot, nor does it make Masons the tools of said governments.

Nope, I am suggesting that the Masons were used specifically in some cases. The very structure of the organisation and its spiritual leanings make it the perfect for their purpose of having a cover. And Masonic symbolism and ideology is all over suspicious world events.

Originally posted by JoshNorton There are members of said governments who are Baptist or Jewish too. And likely some males and some females, and probably some whites and some blacks and some chinese and... well you see how it would be difficult to make assumptions or jump to conclusions based on non-existent evidence.

All of those groups have clearly been used by the PTB, a small amount of light research will make this clear to you ( on second thoughts by the speed you read, better make it a couple of years ). The Masons have been used in a differant more direct way lets say.

Originally posted by JoshNortonSo school us, oh wise one.

Funnily enough this is the second time a pro Mason has said "School us, oh wise one" on this very thread.
I know you guys are always looking outside yourselves for leadership, structure and spiritual gnosis but this is ridiculous.
Look inside yourself for the real answers.

Again the question has still not been answered.

In my opinion we anti masons are at fault when it comes to why these conversations descend into farce. I question the masons distasteful history, the bizarre rituals and subjects such as racism and their connection with the NWO, subjects which I believe are legitimate topics for debate. But before masons can stand up and argue their side of the story we get the lunatic fringe claiming that the masons are shape shifting lizards, are involved in world wide child abuse and sacrifice and are satanists. . .
To me freemasonry is not to be trusted. The rituals alone make me stand up and question whats going on! But we're never going to get a decent dialogue going on until we can differentiate the wheat from the chaff! Like I said earlier, freemasons have difficult questions to answer but those questions don't include child abuse, satanism or shape shifting lizard people. . . The real questions include such topics as; religion, racism, brain washing and eliticism. Lets concentrate on those areas instead of stooping to levels where the masons can legitimately, and rightly, refuse to answer questions. . .

Originally posted by Majestic23
Again the question has still not been answered.

And again, I still don't know which question you're talking about. For the second time, please repeat it.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


I had your problem. So went off site. Questioned Masons directly. Met a couple in person.
While most of the Masons on this site are pretty decent, they have a pretty heavy and sensitive offensive reflex.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Yes Rune, I don't know about Mint but suz isn't gonna go out to meet some masons so I end up in a trunk or they follow me home to put me on some anti-mason list lolol.

Is there an alternative to meeting? Perhaps just answering their questions outright in here or in email? I have people to provide for, I can't be trampsin' off to meet some masons, I'm whakky but not that nuts. laffs

reply to post by suzque66

Each lodge has their contact info on their website, and the usually have mail.
I used to be an anti-Mason. And far from being stalked or anything, I met with them, talked with them, last I heard from them.
Alternativley go to a Masonic website, register, and post.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Yes, but now you are here defending their every word. Maybe some of us wouldn't be thus so impressed.

Um no, lol. I don't leave IP traces in any place that I would consider unsafe. Shirley you jest. (and Agustus would say...'and don't call me Shirley)

PS! I'm kiddin', no interest in meeting with any masons anyhoo, I have no questions to ask them either...others do though apparently. If I took any deep interest I would study in full every detail available, then I would come back to cause a ruckus. For now, I will watch and try to jump in when I can because it is interesting as a topic.

[edit on 19-7-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Majestic23
Again the question has still not been answered.

And again, I still don't know which question you're talking about. For the second time, please repeat it.

Why is apparently Masonic symbolism and ritual all over the twin towers disaster and the building of the towers themselves?

Its a straightforward question there are many ways to answer. Its just Masons cant. Thats what my overall point is. The average Masons doesant have the mindset or info to figure our the bigger picture. Thats why they cant hear a bad word about the Masons.
They are like your highly nationalistic people. They are blinded by faith and it would hurt their ego to know they are pawns.

Again Masons. I started out in this thread with quite a open point of view. I have nothing against Masons other that what is my own opinion (which I would be willing to admit, might be very wrong and is without a doubt generalised, with good reason or not). But my word, learn to communicate with people, have a little ebb and flow.

But then again, single minded men is what you are, its in your.

reply to post by Majestic23

Its a straightforward question there are many ways to answer. Its just Masons cant. Thats what my overall point is. The average Masons doesant have the mindset or info to figure our the bigger picture. Thats why they cant hear a bad word about the Masons.

I have said that at least 6x on different threads. None of them want to believe they are just text-thumpers for a cult of elders that exclude them from the real reindeer games. Again, I pity them as much as I pity one who does the grunt work passing out booklets door to door for the Jehovah's Witness.

Nor would you see any high degree mason on any website like this. It is like the lil skinny 5'3 foot guy in the park with a big, crazy pitbull. Without that dog to protect him, he would just be another 5'3 guy in the park getting sand thrown at him by 2nd graders.

[edit on 19-7-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

I had your problem. So went off site. Questioned Masons directly. Met a couple in person.
While most of the Masons on this site are pretty decent, they have a pretty heavy and sensitive offensive reflex.

Hmmm! While there's no question that the masons here on ATS are nothing more than descent, honourable people, I do wonder about whether there couldn't be some dark corners of freemasonry which they don't know about. It's those dark corners which interest me because it's there you'll find the truth about the conspiracies which surround the fraternity. The masons on here aren't lieing, they're telling it as they see it just as we who question it are saying it as we see it! Its not a secret society but a society with secrets. . .Therefore the first question which arises is how many secrets are there? And can you be absolutely sure that you know them all? Well the answer I'll get back to that one is, "Yes", so let me put it in a slightly different way.
Knowing that as part of the masonic test you are given secrets which you have to keep to yourself and not share with anyone outside the brotherhood, Isn't it just possible that somewhere else within the fraternity there's others who are being told to keep their secrets to themselves, secrets that they can't share with you?

It is no different than being a Boy Scout. When you first join you are taught how to identify a pine tree from an oak, then you learn how to make a fire (in light/stead of), soon you will know what will happen when you burn pine vs an oak, then you learn how to make a knot (fatherhood) and why they are used.

Eventually you grow up and learn that there a 1.7 million species of trees, plants and animals, another 13.000 discovered each year, you make a knot to wear a tie with your suit and that you can easily buy a lighter for $1.09 cents and your dad was either working the weekends you were gone or he was home slept drunk in a lawn chair by the BBQ after fighting with your mom.

Some things we learn on our own, some we don't. There is no proof that being in some club or association makes you more apt to be a prodigy for the planet. Many of the world's honored scientists and technologists didn't attend any Rock-a-feller school of the woodsman to become what they are now.

Any man-made group that keeps its members feeling the slightest bit 'emotionally necessary' for such group to exist as the premise of any organization, then that is one that isn't in it for the intelectual or spirituall 'self-improvement' game. It is similar to the Vatican. Without anyone attending, giving merit or giving funds to their farce of that organization, it would quickly disolve--despite their claim that they are the MOST dedicated and closest to God as possible.

All of a sudden, after a millenium of funding, that organization would be claiming bankruptcy (lol as if they are).

A group that preys on the necessity to fools to feel needed, loved, necessary as a truth of being is nothing but a group itself that has neither need, love nor truth. Explains why the Boy Scouts came about at a time when fathers were too busy to spend much time with their young sons. The compensation seemed fair at the time, but if you think about it...it could have been easily done by friends and neighbors without any paperwork organization if a community wasn't torn apart by the same shortcomings (of economy, war, hardship, industrial).

Call your dads.

Originally posted by Majestic23
Why is apparently Masonic symbolism and ritual all over the twin towers disaster and the building of the towers themselves?

I, for one, don't see a bit of Masonic symbolism in either the 9/11 attack nor the erection of the World Trade Center.

But I'll admit, I know little of their original construction. Were there Masonic-laid cornerstones in either of the towers? If the towers represented the twin pillars of Jachin and Boaz, did they have celestial and terrestrial globes on the top floor? Were there pomegranates or lilies anywhere in the design motifs? If yes to any of those, then sure, I could see a Masonic connection. What parallels do YOU see?

Originally posted by Majestic23
Why is apparently Masonic symbolism and ritual all over the twin towers disaster and the building of the towers themselves?

Its a straightforward question there are many ways to answer. Its just Masons cant.

You know why no one can give you the answer you want? Because the entire premise is preposterous and has zero basis in reality. I am fairly certain you disagree so we all look forward to the overwhelming evidence you will quickly present for review.






[edit on 19-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by suzque66
Shirley you jest. (and Agustus would say...'and don't call me Shirley)

Do you like movies about gladiators?

PS! I'm kiddin', no interest in meeting with any masons anyhoo...

Too bad, I was just on my way over with an ice-cold twelve pack.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


iiikessss I see the jist now, I saw your profile: People YOU dislike: "Paranoia, ignorance and small-minded people.......oh, and the French." Hmm k, I am half french. I dislike Masons and it is a crime???

also, I see that your pal is a mod and she signed your profile page as such. ..that explains why a lot of my typing and the amount of emails from her that what I said in the other mason thread was blocked, while other's weren't. K, this is getting weirrrrrd. I had no idea this kinda stuff went on here. wowzah. Learn something new everyday.

Trust me, I have no big interest in Masons that you have to call in a gf to aid you. Maybe that gladiator comment was actually a threat in some way??? Hmm I have never seen such a movie, maybe I should.

What was your point exactly? Does it take gladiator behavior towards me to make your point? I don't find you funny at all now.

arg, this returns to my comments in the other thread that REAL MEN do not depend on others (especially a woman) to defend them.


[edit on 19-7-2009 by suzque66]

Iam not posting on this thread to give you guys conspiracy 101.

Do a little research and see for yourself. I could be here forever arguing and showing you why I and many others think it is the case. And I would be because you guys seek to divert arguments at every opportunity. It makes no differance to me what you think of your organisation, it makes plenty of differance to those who are in it. Do it for your own good. Try Google, its all there for you to see, infact as Masons it should be easier for you to see than a layperson.

This is a thread arguing the Masons are not directly related to the Illuminati so you have to bring the proof forward to defend your beliefs FOR ONCE.

You think the idea is preposterous and that is why you are a pawn. Your leadership has convinced you that something that is actually occuring and important is nonsense.

You cant answer the question. My question is answered.

The point is that anything else of value to anyone ...someone is told to 'google it' by keyword and come to a common conclusion.

If it were 'drug abuse' and 'athletes' it would come up with varied sites of supposed value but how many athletes have been actually been tested and caught?

When it comes to sources, sure no direct links can be found, YET. It will be a matter of time and patience., a dangerous endeavour but time will show. As I mentioned, even the Nazi plans are now being studied by historians ... it won't be long until the same happens in this situation.

Originally posted by suzque66
iiikessss I see the jist now, I saw your profile: People YOU dislike: "Paranoia, ignorance and small-minded people.......oh, and the French." Hmm k, I am half french. I dislike Masons and it is a crime???

Certainly not, you are free to dislike whomever you choose.

also, I see that your pal is a mod and she signed your profile page as such. ..

Actually, Ashley signed that before she became a moderator.

that explains why a lot of my typing and the amount of emails from her that what I said in the other mason thread was blocked, while other's weren't. K, this is getting weirrrrrd. I had no idea this kinda stuff went on here. wowzah. Learn something new everyday.

If one of the moderators on this site felt there was an issue with your posts and you happen to disagree you should address your questions to them, speaking to me is not the way to resolve your concerns.

Trust me, I have no big interest in Masons that you have to call in a gf to aid you.

I am not really sure what you are refering to but if it makes you feel better to think so, then by all means go ahead.

Maybe that gladiator comment was actually a threat in some way??? Hmm I have never seen such a movie, maybe I should.

What was your point exactly? Does it take gladiator behavior towards me to make your point? I don't find you funny at all now.

No Suz, it was not a threat, it is a quote from the same movie that 'please don't call me Shirley' comes from. You may have seen the movie in question, it is called Airplane.











[edit on 19-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by Majestic23
Iam not posting on this thread to give you guys conspiracy 101.

Translation: I just pulled this theory out of my backside and I have no proof to support it.

You think the idea is preposterous and that is why you are a pawn. Your leadership has convinced you that something that is actually occuring and important is nonsense.

Right, because at lodge meetings one of the usual topics brought up under New Business is: How to keep the populace uninformed on the massive Masonic conspiracy to build and subsequently destroy the World Trade Center.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Translation: I just pulled this theory out of my backside and I have no proof to support it.

This coming from someone who said to me in a related thread...

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
I do not think we actually need to give it to you as all of Masonry's teachings are already in the public domian and you most likely already know and practice them.

Double standards, but did I expect any less from someone who suggests belonging to an obscure club = good person?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicusRight, because at lodge meetings one of the usual topics brought up under New Business is: How to keep the populace uninformed on the massive Masonic conspiracy to build and subsequently destroy the World Trade Center.

Did I suggest such a thing?

As has been made clear, if you arent in the driving seat of such an organisation you have little to no idea what the organisations goal actually is. There are plenty of well meaning people who are sometimes exploited. Iam not suggesting this of you specifically. But in effect what you are doing is defending something that probably doesant deserve your efforts.