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We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

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posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Your enthusiasm to gain higher degrees and be accepted by your brothers actually ends up with you swearing on the holy bible to kill someone if callled on to do so. Don't you think thats weird?


I don't think it's weird at all, because it's just not true. Check your facts, dude. The Masonic obligations include symbolic penalties which the initiate accepts upon himself, not to enforce upon others.

Once again, the penalties are symbolic. You seem to conveniently ignore this fact no matter how many times you are told.




posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
I truly believe that Masons hide behind the facade of 'good, charitable work'. I was born a cripple, but no mason ever donated any money to my cause.


Are you similarly upset with World Vision and the Salvation Army for not giving you money?




posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic23

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I'm sorry but you seem to have the wrong forum for that kind of question. Try the 9/11 board for answers that are more likely closer to your taste


No no, this is not your secret little club.


Didn't say it was. However, you toss off a wide variety of assertions with no explanations of just what you mean and let them lie there as if they're obvious to all and sundry


Originally posted by Majestic23
You lack the abilty to put things into context aswell


Why don't you do the heavy lifting? You're the one derailing the thread off into the Wild Kingdom©.


Originally posted by Majestic23
(if you read the surrounding posts you would be aware of this). Why dont you try answering my question, since not one of you has? If it makes you more comfortable exchange illuminati for Masons. Also as I said in that post, 9/11 is not the only instance. The buidings were built on old Masonic rules.


Enlighten us, oh enlightened one. Quelle Masonic rules might these be?


Originally posted by Fitzgibboneta: Unless you believe that there was a Mason involved somewhere in its construction which (statistically speaking) there likely was. However, your whole post is kind of scattershot so it's hard to know just what you have in mind


In short yes I do, but Iam not talking about low level Masons as you are trying to put forward.

You didn't say anything at all and you're expecting it to be received as some sort of deep profundity. Sorry to burst your bubble.


Originally posted by Majestic23
My post is not scatterscot, you took it out of context, I was answering another post that referanced "illuminati". Why didnt you level the same criticism at him.

So go on then, try and answer my question.


In this post you were asking a non-Mason (his father and grandfather are Masons) about the ritualistic and numerological symbolism of the WTC. Is it not blindingly to you obvious that you were

a: Asking the wrong person

and

b: Asking in the wrong forum (or at the very least, the wrong thread)?

[edit on 9-7-2009 by Fitzgibbon]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by novacs4me
 

It is not mandatory or even alluded to that you should leave anything to the Freemasons. I don't know if I'll leave anything other than the money I put forth towards my prepaid life membership, but if I stay with the attitude that I have now I will indeed leave a large sum to my home Lodge.

No offense intended, but you sound bitter. I can see where you come from, cut out from your own family members will and it left to a group of men you know nothing about. Masons are taught to never wrong a Brother, and by proxy his family members.

Please note that not all lawyers are Masons (use a phone book), we come from all walks of life.

reply to post by novacs4me
 

Like I said above, we come from all walks of life. I myself am a full-time citizen-soldier. It's such an absurdity to say that all those professions are consumed by the Freemasons. We just went through a (from what I heard) long dry spell of membership and we are now just coming out of it. I have brought in many college students, one doctor, no judicious jobs, and I think one was in home renovation.

Can you please list who these men are? I know most of the Judges (as my father was a high ranking cop in my town; not a Mason) and they are not Masons. My grandfather was a high ranking officer in the State Police, not a Mason. In the Army guard I know of only a few Masons.

reply to post by novacs4me
 

No child that goes into a Shriner hospital ever pays. Nor do those who use the Knights Templar Eye Foundation, or the Child Identification Program, or the various others provided by the Craft.

reply to post by novacs4me
 

To join for networking purposes is a horrible reason to join. Some have called it the "Business Mason" and at least in my area, they are not esteemed among the Brothers. No Mason is ashamed to say he is a member of the Craft. We don't use our membership to better ourselves.

reply to post by Afterthought
 

What phallic symbol is that? Ex-Masons didn't get what they wanted out of it or they didn't try to put anything into it so they probably had a sour experience.

Windows? Some Lodge's do depending on the building they occupy. We are not the government, but a private organization and we have the right to privacy as we choose.

To join the Eastern Star you must have had a Mason in the family. If you had a relative, you don't need to be married. I'm not sure what the OES talks about, but I will find out soon as I have petitioned.

Actually, many Lodges do do open houses, plus if you go to your local Lodge before their meeting time you can take a look around if you ask.

Your dark analogy is what we would call a non-sequitur argument.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by novacs4me
 

It is not mandatory or even alluded to that you should leave anything to the Freemasons. I don't know if I'll leave anything other than the money I put forth towards my prepaid life membership, but if I stay with the attitude that I have now I will indeed leave a large sum to my home Lodge.

No offense intended, but you sound bitter. I can see where you come from, cut out from your own family members will and it left to a group of men you know nothing about. Masons are taught to never wrong a Brother, and by proxy his family members.



If a person believes that a group of people are their brothers, closer than their own kin, then they should have every right to leave their accumulated wealth to that group. What has been bothering me all these years is that my great-aunt and uncle's wishes may have been subverted by your brothers, who I believe pressured great-uncle Charlie to change his will while he was a feeble-minded nursing home patient. I believe this is a form of ambulance chasing. And you are also wrong assuming I know nothing about masonry. I have been reading up on it for a long time. Bitter? I suppose if I loved money I might be, but I do not. No, I 'have it in' for any religious cult. I believe you and all your 'brothers' have traded YOUR inheritance for a mess of pottage.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by novacs4me]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by novacs4me
 

Please note that not all lawyers are Masons (use a phone book), we come from all walks of life.
reply to post by novacs4me
 

Can you please list who these men are?


Use a phone book? I have no problem skipping over the ads where masonic symbols are used, or any other ads where the person clearly identifies themselves as Masonic. But I do not trust that any lawyer (other than women) is not hiding his true association with the Masons. And as far as telling you "who these men are", well I'm not sure why you ask. Are you trying to locate the town where this happened so you can alert your brothers? I may be ignorant, but I am not stupid!



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason


reply to post by novacs4me
 

No child that goes into a Shriner hospital ever pays. Nor do those who use the Knights Templar Eye Foundation, or the Child Identification Program, or the various others provided by the Craft.


Is this supposed to answer my question about what percent of the dues collected actually goes for these noble purposes? Why wouldn't a charitable organization be open about how the money is spent? Please refer to my previous posts, where I show you that the Shriner's are anything BUT open about their charities.

We won't even TALK about the Child Identification Program. Oh, sign your kids up, parents! Yeah! THAT'S a good thing.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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This will be my last post in this forum. I've been poking around in other ATS threads, and have come to the conclusion that no good will come of my interaction with Masons here. I know it will be hard to 'bite my tongue' and not respond to you guys, but, I will have to say 'Good-bye' and thanks for the interesting conversation.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by Roark
 


No, but thanks for asking. I'm used to not depending on anyone for anything. I'm a hard worker & everything I have I've attained on my own. I never ask anyone for anything, but I don't know how these groups decide who gets $$ assistance & who doesn't.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Thanks for clarifying. I'm certainly going to check out to see if the lodges near me hold open houses. Also, I used to work at a school that had a glass case with a stuffed bald eagle donated by the Masons. I thought this was horrible seeing that the bald eagle was a protected species until recently.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Didn't say it was. However, you toss off a wide variety of assertions with no explanations of just what you mean and let them lie there as if they're obvious to all and sundry


You didnt say it was but it is clearly in your mindset.


Originally posted by Fitzgibbon Why don't you do the heavy lifting? You're the one derailing the thread off into the Wild Kingdom©.


I asked a simple question. You cant answer it.


Originally posted by FitzgibbonEnlighten us, oh enlightened one. Quelle Masonic rules might these be?


...... the ones relating to the sacred geometry the Freemasons use. Kabbalistic magic. You know the Seal of Solomon? Just do a google search mate.


Originally posted by Fitzgibbon You didn't say anything at all and you're expecting it to be received as some sort of deep profundity. Sorry to burst your bubble.


No, I asked a simple question very relevant to the post in particular and the thread in general. Anyone with a passing interest in conspiracies or esoteric history should have an immediate grasp of what I was saying.



Originally posted by FitzgibbonIn this post you were asking a non-Mason (his father and grandfather are Masons) about the ritualistic and numerological symbolism of the WTC. Is it not blindingly to you obvious that you were
a: Asking the wrong person
and
b: Asking in the wrong forum (or at the very least, the wrong thread)?


So am I do take it you have a clue or not?

The poster I replied to said catagorically that the Freemasons and the Illuminati and subsequently the secret rulers of the world had no links and do not exist as such.

So I said......there clearly are some links.

Whats not to understand?

Stop playing slow and answer the question. If its not in your capacity to answer it then dont, but dont try and derail what I am saying.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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Geez, again with this nonsense of Masons going on about 'prove that we aren't bad guys' threads?

How about we assume several things that are quite reasonably plausable:

Lets reason that...(duh like we all don't know)

There are 11-18 families that run the world (directly and indirectly) give or take, some say there are the 13 so lets consider the extra 5 as fodder when all is said and done.

These people (lets call them the illuminati, for enlightenment sake, since hey, these people would have access and control over all scientific advancement/or non public advancement) have a personal army of what, 300 or so extended family who own major or even minor businesses that may or may not influence the world.

Then lets say that those 300, answer to small groups, who's groups answer to the initial group. The small meetings of the influencial become other meetings of the lesser. After countless so-ons and so-ons, you have the middle class anglican attending a group (of brothers that he has no idea that other brothers are merely equals that answer to a higher who keeps their eye on them).

good example:

the episode in entirety: Season 7: Episode 130:

The Calzone
www.justforlaughschicago.com...

During a meeting with George, Yankee owner George Steinbrenner becomes quite taken with his lunch from a delicatessen near the stadium. Faced with Steinbrenner's growing obsession with a daily calzone, George is more than happy to oblige and bring him one, especially since it puts him in his boss' good graces. But when a misunderstanding over a tip leads George to being banned from Paisano's deli, he's forced to find another way to get it. Meanwhile, as Kramer develops his own obsession with freshly dried laundry, Jerry dates Nicki, a woman whose stunning beauty persuades anyone to do as she says.

After learning of their suspicious bet, Jerry warns Elaine she's being set up to go out on a date with by her friend Todd Gack. Todd's subsequent offer to get Jerry some prized Cuban cigars only increases Jerry's suspicions that he's using it to see Elaine again without having to actually ask her out. And though he vehemently denies using the lost bet or the cigars as a cover, Elaine begins to wonder after discovering they are meeting Todd's parents for dinner. Meanwhile, as Kramer discovers that the expensive cigars Todd sold Jerry are actually from Peru, George enlists Newman to buy Steinbrenner's lunch.

When Newman calls in sick on a rainy day, George must find someone else for the calzone run at Paisano's. Agreeing to carry out the mission for his friend, Kramer also persuades the deli's owner to let him heat up his clothes in his oven. But when Kramer isn't allowed to pay for the lunch order in pennies, George is left to explain to an irritable Steinbrenner. Finally, after Nicki also falls prey to Todd's stealthy dating ploy, Jerry gets revenge by paying for the cigars with $300 ... in pennies!

ok, using this crazy nonsense as an example, what do we learn? Many things. The top man isn't really the top man, the inside man is really the silent man, and the middle man is well....useless fodder. The middleman (Newman) is the messenger, the goverment, the gatekeeper. We will launder money here, our guy will not try to skim extra or else (George), the goverment will come in, exchange the goods. The near bottom of the totem pole does the lackey work. Women are used as pawns in every direction imaginable (niki being used to entice authority firgures into positions of weakness and elaine playing the dummy in order to be with a jerk that lies to find out his motives) and in the end they guy who doesn't follow along (in this case this Gack guy gets a chest full of metal (pennies) tossed into his chest as he opens the door.

Just using this as an example..but what you masons think you do as 'services' for the betterment of society, seriously, why don't you do that as an independant, give your time, energy or money or whatever you feel is 'necessary' to do your community a favour and spread it around on a voluntary basis without some group telling you who and where your loyalties lend to. Pony up and be a man of value, not a man used by (people you will never meet, so quit your whinin') those who do not have the best interest of mankind involved . When will you wake up??

Point is..this is like Ford or GM Employees/lineworkers braggin' on how their product is the best and how they only drive Ford/GM products (ya ok to fit in with the crowd) and now that these corporations have gone bust and screwed them over....where is their loved and cherished bosses now? Long, long gone. You just can't admit you have been and are being used can ya?

Until the bitter end, this premise that the illuminati (if they so exist and as if they don't exist) run groups such as the Masons will not be known. But, don't forget, at the end of Nazi Germany, some doctors and leaders got away (hidden in other countries or in the US of A). Ignorance is no excuse. You have been warned even from the inside that your group has been considered of evil intent, your justice is not ours it is a God's) but don't assume that your middle class/average intelligence children and grandchildren won't be used as idiot fondu for some elite banquet. The thought of you being so dense but so obedient hmmph, I think they have more respect for the ones who are less obedient and fighters. I myself find it hard to pity those who stamp their own fate.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by suzque66]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by suzque66]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by suzque66]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by suzque66]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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Listening to you godless heathens for the last week or so I decided to seek out a friend of mine who is a master mason and ask him what's going on. He said something very interesting. He said that even if us anti masons hit the nail right on the . concerning the masons connections with the Illuminati there is no way they would either admit to, or provide information to prove the contrary. If they do, he said, take no notice of them because they're talking rubbish. But he did go on to tell me why he left the cult. He said the masons loved him and were all over him until his business went under and then they didn't want to know him accept when he owed money for meals etc. When I asked him whether there was any truth to the fact that the masons prefer members who are high ups in big business, the law or the banks he replied, Absolutely! He left because as his business died he found that he was chased for money while the elite members, those who were high up in the police, or who ran their own businesses were never approached or bothered for fees. Eventually it got to much for him and he told the mason to go and get fu.....!
And there in is the problem with this idiotic thread. The Masons Are Not The Illuminati... If you were you couldn't tell us because you would be breaking your masonic oath not to divulge the secrets or what goes on in the lodge. . .
All us anti masons have got frustrated because the brothers (Oh dear) wont tell us whats going on, and the masonic members have got angry because we keep on asking difficult, and in some case, preposterous,questions. . !
Whats the bloody point?



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 




All us anti masons have got frustrated because the brothers (Oh dear) wont tell us whats going on, and the masonic members have got angry because we keep on asking difficult, and in some case, preposterous,questions. . !


Actually, most of the Masons have got frustrated 'cause you keep taking what a website is telling you for granted, and not checking to see if what the site is telling you is actually accurate or not.

Seeing as how you've been caught on this twice, and have been asked to check into it a couple of times, and have not indicated that you have, I can understand their frustration.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 




All us anti masons have got frustrated because the brothers (Oh dear) wont tell us whats going on, and the masonic members have got angry because we keep on asking difficult, and in some case, preposterous,questions. . !


Actually, most of the Masons have got frustrated 'cause you keep taking what a website is telling you for granted, and not checking to see if what the site is telling you is actually accurate or not.

Seeing as how you've been caught on this twice, and have been asked to check into it a couple of times, and have not indicated that you have, I can understand their frustration.


I mis quoted an article once and apologised for it. If only masons could do the same but then masons are never wrong are they? They are egotistical big .s who look down on the rest of us mere mortals because we dont need to have our ego's bolstered by false friends and we certainly don't feel the need to have to attend some quasi religious lodge to make us feel loved and wanted. We have normal friends for that. . . A notion which would be lost on you of course as you seem to be berift of a personality.
But enough with talking to this monumental failure. Like I said, masons aren't, or should I say, can't, tell us what we non masons want to know so whats the point?



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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Seriously all of you,

it took 800+ years for it to become public that the Vatican had been molesting children (that were/felt brave enough to come forward) so God knows how long it will take for the mid-low stream to be caught.

The Vatican paid off many a witness (after testifying, not AFTER) not only decades ago but recently, yet this Michael Jackson thing goes on about him paying and HE is such a terror to children? You have got to be kidding?? MJ (is another topic) but, he is less likely a child molestor or an abuser than your counterparts. He btw has been accused and also been proven INNOCENT by a court of LAW,..have the MASONS?

I see the entire rock tumbling from top to bottom eventually. Too much metal to grind to create too much gravel which creates too much gravel into stone and eventually nature creates sand and then a diamond. You will eventually be found to be the bottom of the barrel (see the Stanford Prison Experiment: video.google.com...

and the Milgram: vids.myspace.com...

You Masons are merely victims of an experiment that is in action. You are a nothing. To prove that you are are a nothing or a something, deny your group, say one word against it (as any other sane group can willingly do without seeing a consequence), I dare you.

You are a victim. I am not a victim, I refuse to be. You may jest that others are victims of hollywood or any other cult/ural adoration, you do the same. You may diss street gangs, you are no different. They all have a leader and a common affiliation, as you do. They may even register that with the government as yours did, but not without entire disclosure of who and what they do or stand for. Masons, on the other hand have had no proven legal disclosure of their affiliation or standing since 1883.

So, akin to the Vatican, are we to believe your affiliations are super-Omnipotent and have no need for public disclosure of what each lodge/meeting and known members? Yet, it is public knowledge of every basic baseball coach and/or given school district kindergarden treat-giver of the week is?

Do not claim for the 2974823th time about your charity. Shove your charity. Charity begins at home. Take care of your own, if we all did that, no need for groups to treat us like we are invalids. To quote Ayn Rand (a big supporter and former Mistress of your leader and the author of Atlas Shrugged:

"...for healthy children to use handicapped materials. I quite agree with the speaker's indignation. I think it's a monstrous thing — the whole progression of everything they're doing — to feature, or answer, or favor the incompetent, the retarded, the handicapped, including, you know, the kneeling buses and all kinds of impossible expenses. I do not think that the retarded should be ~allowed~ to come ~near~ children. Children cannot deal, and should not have to deal, with the very tragic spectacle of a handicapped human being. When they grow up, they may give it some attention, if they're interested, but it should never be presented to them in childhood, and certainly not as an example of something ~they~ have to live down to."

- Ayn Rand, The Age of Mediocrity, Q & A Ford Hall Forum, April, 1981

see her opinions on the handicapped on Phil Donahue: www.youtube.com... ed%26rls%3Dcom%2Emicrosoft%3Aen%2DUS%26oe%3DUTF%2D8%26startIndex%3D%26st&feature=player_embedded

Yes, I believe I know what she meant. Leave the handicapped to be trusted to people like you. You just may be, possibly be the future exicutioners because a future world trusts your organization.

You might not dare to trust your government, or maybe you do. You may not dare to trust your local McDondalds or your local Walmart, your bank, your (insert name here) employer (yes we all know they love us, for just us, hahaha) but they are all in the same. A multi-national corporation that has plans for your life, your time, your employment, your enjoyment, what you say/do, your children's education, your retirement, your.................................................................................................................................................. .....

..........................

.............. don't come to the end of these dots, none of the above is for you, the nothing to decide.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by suzque66
 

The Vatican paid off many a witness (after testifying, not AFTER) not only decades ago but recently, yet this Michael Jackson thing goes on about him paying and HE is such a terror to children? You have got to be kidding?? MJ (is another topic) but, he is less likely a child molestor or an abuser than your counterparts. He btw has been accused and also been proven INNOCENT by a court of LAW,..have the MASONS?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Far be it from me to stand up for the freemasons but are you saying that they abuse children? If you are that's quite a statement to make and I would like to see some evidence otherwise, for the good of all, it might be worth considering removing that statement. . ?



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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I would like to add that Masons love to go on and on about certain books to refer to and how certain Masonic laws are to be refered to bla bla bla, well, yes, as I have said the Vatican had certain 'books' to refer to as their law and it was broken in more ways than one (not only world-wide violence but the known sexual abuse that was admitted by clergy and the Pope himself). I don't want to hear about your books being pro-Pike, vs-Pike bla bla. The point is the entire organization is known as a premise for odd/un-Christian behavior that is mere rumor....for now. (As were the jokes and seriousness of sexual deviance of the pious Catholics in which you are affiliated with since your time began).

You Masons seriously have to stop taking any criticizm as jest or a reason to be defensive for a purpose that you don't know about. I don't see any 33rd degree masons coming here to defend any of this back-talk. I see low-level wannabees who want and hope to kiss-a$$ to some hopefully other kiss-a$$ who might tell another that so-n-so defended the 'faith'. Grow your own pine-cones and stop holding up others'.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Far be it from me to stand up for the freemasons but are you saying that they abuse children? If you are that's quite a statement to make and I would like to see some evidence otherwise, for the good of all, it might be worth considering removing that statement. . ?


I am saying that the Masons have been accused of such (unofficially) child ritual abuse, MJ was accused, tried and was proven innocent., by a court of law. The Masons have not been accused formally, nor tried.

nor will I go on endlessly with these jackels., it is like fighting the kid in school that eats rocks for lunch. He was never encouraged to believe that bread was healthier and more sane. He grew up to be a mason


[edit on 10-7-2009 by suzque66]



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66



Far be it from me to stand up for the freemasons but are you saying that they abuse children? If you are that's quite a statement to make and I would like to see some evidence otherwise, for the good of all, it might be worth considering removing that statement. . ?


I am saying that the Masons have been accused of such (unofficially) child ritual abuse, MJ was accused, tried and was proven innocent., by a court of law. The Masons have not been accused formally, nor tried.


Who unofficially accused them of child abuse? When did this take place? I dislike and mistrust the brotherhood but I would think twice before I made an accusation as severe as this. . .
Could you give us some facts concerning these allegations please?



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