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We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

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posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
I searched online for a 'hall of records' for my home county, because I had never heard of such a thing. Does every county have one?


Yes, but it may not use the same name, it is located in each county seat and hill hold documents such as wills, marriage, birth and death certificates, deeds and other such legal papers. Here is the one for my county. Notice it does indeed say 'Hall of Records'.


No, I did not know about a second copy being filed anywhere.


There is even sometimes a third copy held by the attorney.


I'm not sure why you mention my father...


Sorry, my mistake.


I can't remember if page 2 had only my great-uncle's signature on it, but why would the will show my great-aunt's rings going to a nursing home attendant if page 3 had both my great-aunt and great-uncle's signatures? My aunt predeceased my uncle.


There are only two people who could have answered that and I am not one of them.


The time frame doesn't work. What you have told me only raises my suspicions that the lawyer went to the nursing home to 'convince' poor old senile Charlie to change his will so that there would be matching copies in the courthouse and the 'hall of records'.


Even so, all older copies are not destroyed and anyone can contest the will and have these records brought out. That is the reason why they are filed and archived in such a manner.

Blaming this on Masons fifteen years after the fact instead of speaking to a probate attorney when this occured seems like paranoid sour grapes.




posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Look, I don't trust freemasons but if I have, by accident, quoted a liar or cited an inaccurate statement I will of course apologise.


You have, so go ahead and apologize.


But it's a bit rich that we who have problems with the fraternity are either criticised for not researching the subject or attacked for believing ridiculous statements such as the old lizard thing.


Then stop using admitted hoaxes and fictitious quotes to support your personal opinion.



Your enthusiasm to gain higher degrees and be accepted by your brothers...


Really? I have no desire to join the Scottish or York Rites at this time. I am already at the highest degree, 3rd. All the others are lateral. There is no Scottish or York Rite Mason who can come into lodge and start giving out orders under the ageis of the Scottish or York Rites and expect us to jump at his command.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 

Oh, I think that since the masons gave credit to Uncle Charlie for their new lodge, that it is quite fair to credit them with getting the money from him.

I see you didn't answer my question about how one finds a non-masonic lawyer. A friend of mine who was married to a lawyer told me her husband became a mason and considers it like paying protection money. Lawyers become masons or have no future in the profession. This leaves the general public without recourse when the lawyers are thieves. The whole judiciary system is rife with masons. Policemen? Masons. Judges? Masons. Politicians? Masons. Newspapers? Owned by masons. The first opportunity most of us have to express our outrage at this IS the web. No wonder the politicians want to control it, too!



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I read the views of Henry Wilson Coil concerning the compatibility of christianity and masonry on several sites, such as this;

www.iclnet.org...



So, a: You say you're quoting from Coils Encyclopedia, when in reality you're reading what someone wrote on a web-site.


and, b: You're saying that despite what his ACTUAL book said about Masonry NOT being a religion, you're willing to accept what someone on a website said that is in direct opposition to what he said as being true.



I have realised that once you start to lose the argument you invariably run to the mods crying how you've been abused.


If you're suggesting that I said "I'd been abused" you're delusional. Posting mistruths to this forum, however...that's a different story.



Ah, it's the way of things. I don't have to do that because I let the facts speak for themselves. I cite a website and am accused of lieing


No I'm saying the website was a pack of lies, because it claimed those statements came from Coil, when I have actual copies of Coil's work and can prove to anyone who's paying attention that it did not. Period.


but you can pledge on the holy bible to murder someone and still, somehow, believe you hold some moral highground!!


Nowhere, nor at any time do Masons pledge to murder someone. That's ridiculous (and pathetic). So that statement is a . . . well you know what it is.


Tell me, have you ever been asked to carry out your oath?
I try to carry out my Obligation (it's not an oath) every day.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I do research masonry and the more I read the more I become concerned that there is a subtle brainwashing taking place. Your enthusiasm to gain higher degrees and be accepted by your brothers actually ends up with you swearing on the holy bible to kill someone if callled on to do so. Don't you think thats weird?


As I said in an earlier post. There is NO oath to kill someone. Not in ANY degree. I have received the vast majority of Masonic degrees and have read the rituals of ALL of them. No where do swear to kill someone.

If you truly want to research Freemasonry, don't just use anti-Masonic sources. Use some Masonic sources and compare the two. Try this one (it's excellent)

"Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry" by Art de Hoyos & S. Brent Morris (both 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons)

it's available on-line for free here:

www.srmason-sj.org...

It's long, detailed and very well documented (unlike most hate sites that state there info as "fact" with nothing to back them up). You won't be able to read it in an hour or so. It will take a while, but it's worth it.

That is if you're REALLY interested in truth. And quite frankly, I don't believe you are.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
Oh, I think that since the masons gave credit to Uncle Charlie for their new lodge, that it is quite fair to credit them with getting the money from him.


No one is debating that, you made it sound underhanded, as if Masons cheated you of an inheritance. Maybe your Uncle did not want to leave anything to you.

If your Uncle was genorous enough to make such a donation no one can fault him. I know several Brothers, who, on their passing, made sizable donations to the Masonic home in my state which takes care of elderly Masons and non-Masons.


I see you didn't answer my question about how one finds a non-masonic lawyer.


Get a female attorney if you are so concerned about someone's fraternal affiliations.

I personally have never had a attoreny that was a Mason and I have had three realestate attorneys, one probate and two that I needed to prosecute contractors with whom I had legal issues.


d of mine who was married to a lawyer told me her husband became a mason and considers it like paying protection money.


Is that so??? Paying it to who? Show me a cancelled check and I will contact the authorities personally. Sounds like more nonesense.


Lawyers become masons or have no future in the profession.


Really? Tell me how that works for female attorneys.....


This leaves the general public without recourse when the lawyers are thieves. The whole judiciary system is rife with masons. Policemen? Masons. Judges? Masons. Politicians? Masons. Newspapers? Owned by masons. The first opportunity most of us have to express our outrage at this IS the web. No wonder the politicians want to control it, too!


And now we see the real reason for your posting. Not for edification but for pontification. You see Masons hiding everywhere.

Somebody cue that song by the Kinks.....

Make sure you check under you bed tonight for Masons.






[edit on 9-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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Pontification? Masons pontificate constantly on all the good they do for society. "We help crippled kids!". Well, what percent of the money you collect actually goes for such noble purposes? I'm not buying it. Like all secret societies, it is truly an "I'll scratch your back; you scratch mine" organization, and the good works are a cover for your true purposes.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
Pontification? Masons pontificate constantly on all the good they do for society. "We help crippled kids!". Well, what percent of the money you collect actually goes for such noble purposes? I'm not buying it. Like all secret societies, it is truly an "I'll scratch your back; you scratch mine" organization, and the good works are a cover for your true purposes.


AM, I'll lay odds that novacs4m is a British poster, exhibiting that particular 'the legal system is rife with Masons' trait whereby two's a conspiracy and three's an undeniable worldwide cabal.

No proof of his/her position is required whereas no amount of contrary proof will be sufficient. Clearly a no-win situation.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
and the good works are a cover for your true purposes.


Please share with the rest of the class, what are the true purposes of masonry?

psst. if you don't know, just make something up.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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I already told you what your purposes are, when I said it was a 'You scratch my back; I'll scratch yours' organization. Your purposes are to take care of each other as your first priority. This is problematic for someone who believes a masonic lawyer may have stolen his/her inheritance. If I ask you, as a lawyer, to tell me if you are a mason because I need someone who isn't the 'brother' of the criminal, would you tell me the truth? And if I were to believe my lawyer was not a mason and the case should end up in the courtroom, how can I as a non-mason have hope for a favorable outcome if the judge is a mason? Let's say everything went well, and I won the lawsuit. Most of the powerful men in a small town such as where this happened would know that I challenged the authority of the masons, to which they have sworn an oath. How could I reasonably expect that this would not cause serious repercussions for me and my family and for their businesses? It is much easier to let the Masons have their way, and to let the One who settles accounts take care of it when they face Him. Don't worry, He will, because He is just.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Stealing from crippled children

Why should I believe anything has improved since this article was written? Please direct me to a non-masonic website where I can view what percent of the dues collected actually go to charitable purposes. Thanks!



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

No proof of his/her position is required whereas no amount of contrary proof will be sufficient. Clearly a no-win situation.


More proof: Did Shriners retaliate?

Want more?



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
If I ask you, as a lawyer, to tell me if you are a mason because I need someone who isn't the 'brother' of the criminal, would you tell me the truth?


I guess my suggestion to get a female attorney was lost on you.

Better to invent paranoid hypothetical situations and obsess over them.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Your advice was not lost on me. If there had been any female attorneys within a 100 mile radius of the offense, hiring one would have been a good idea. It would not have resolved the other concerns, however. Paranoid? I think not. But believe what you wish.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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I truly believe that Masons hide behind the facade of 'good, charitable work'. I was born a cripple, but no mason ever donated any money to my cause. Why is it that the phallic symbolism surrounds Freemasonry? Also, women can be in the Eastern Star organization. Isn't that what Easter is really intended to celebrate ~ the Eastern Star or Sun? I've checked out several aint-masonic websites supported by ex-freemasons & understand why they're uncomfortable with the cult, I mean, group. Why don't any of their lodges have windows? Why don't they practice transparency as our gov't. has failed miserably at? What about the death of Captain Morgan? Is it true that he was murdered for trying to publish the lodge's handbook? Is the 33rd level an imaginary degree? Can I join the Eastern Stars without marrying a mason? What do thye talk about & why don't they have an open house so us bottom dwellers can see how the lodges are decorated? Too many questions, not enough answers. I don't like joining groups or being any part of them. I'll conduct my social networking in public because I have nothing to hide & all my intentions are good. Afterall, anything that remains in the dark must serve the dark forces ~ correct?



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
Your advice was not lost on me. If there had been any female attorneys within a 100 mile radius of the offense, hiring one would have been a good idea


I did some research for you and contacted the Surrogate's Office here in New Jersey. They informed me that a person's estate is never 'closed' and if there are outstanding debts/inheritances due then a person may contest/collect them at anytime by going through the executor of the will. In English, if you feel you have been cheated then you can still do something. Speak to an attorney, a female one.


Edit to add: Please check the laws in your state as they may vary. I am not an attorney, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.




[edit on 9-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Thanks for checking on that! I am guessing I can't do that until I move back to the States, but I WILL follow up if/when that happens! I really thought it was too late. I thought there was a seven year statute of limitations on crimes except murder. I haven't lived anywhere near my home state for over 30 years, so pursuing it never seemed practical. But I might move back 'home' someday, and then I can see about tracking down the various versions (assuming the will changed, which it MUST have, for the nursing home worker to have been willed the rings. I just can't imagine my aunt and uncle waiting until he was in a nursing home to make their FIRST will, since their estate was large, and especially since she predeceased him).

I found the name and phone number of a female lawyer in my home state. I will call her on Monday. Who knows? Maybe I can pursue it from Canada.



[edit on 9-7-2009 by novacs4me]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I'm sorry but you seem to have the wrong forum for that kind of question. Try the 9/11 board for answers that are more likely closer to your taste


No no, this is not your secret little club. You lack the abilty to put things into context aswell (if you read the surrounding posts you would be aware of this). Why dont you try answering my question, since not one of you has? If it makes you more comfortable exchange illuminati for Masons. Also as I said in that post, 9/11 is not the only instance. The buidings were built on old Masonic rules.


Originally posted by Fitzgibboneta: Unless you believe that there was a Mason involved somewhere in its construction which (statistically speaking) there likely was. However, your whole post is kind of scattershot so it's hard to know just what you have in mind


In short yes I do, but Iam not talking about low level Masons as you are trying to put forward.

My post is not scatterscot, you took it out of context, I was answering another post that referanced "illuminati". Why didnt you level the same criticism at him.

So go on then, try and answer my question.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


Is that so??? Paying it to who? Show me a cancelled check and I will contact the authorities personally. Sounds like more nonesense.


I didn't say anyone had to pay protection money. I said that his wife told me he considered it LIKE paying protection money.

In other words, as I understood her, he believed he would not have much of a legal practice if he didn't join the Masons.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

No one is debating that, you made it sound underhanded, as if Masons cheated you of an inheritance. Maybe your Uncle did not want to leave anything to you.



I do not know if my great-uncle wanted to leave anything to me. I only know that my grandmother said that when my mother died, my great-uncle and great-aunt changed their will from having my mother as the heir to the estate, to having my brothers and sisters and I as the heirs. My grandmother was always truthful (sometimes unkindly so!), and she was still in full control of her faculties until her death. I have all these years been disturbed by the strong likelihood that Charlie was approached while a nursing home patient and encouraged to change the will. The apparent 'buying off' of a nursing home employee confirms the timing of the last version of the will. I had no idea that previous versions were not destroyed. Obviously, I am not a lawyer!



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