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We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

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posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Keep in mind the story of William Morgan.

While it should be noted that these fellows acted as individuals, they were still Freemasons and in this instance, acting as far as they were concerned in favor of Masonry.

Despite not being a condoned action of any Masonic official, this event did help reshape Masonry and the view of it by the average person.
And, it should be noted that the book was later published, and was pretty successful in sales.

Hey, it's on Google Books too:

The Mysteries of Freemasonry




The Interlinear Greek English New Testament is supposed to be taken from the oldest known transcript from the New Testament, but after i did some research i was told and read that the King James Bible was the most accurate.


To be honest, there are many different versions of the Bible in print, and due to the number I can't say for certain which one is most accurate.
However, the King James Version of the Bible is one I've seen and read as being particularly mistranslated.
James himself had his personal reasons, both for for having it translated and how he had it translated.


[edit on 8-7-2009 by RuneSpider]




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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WHAT A BLATANT VIOLATION OF THE T&C.


Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

But freemasonry is at odds with christianity! The twp are incompatible. . .
Henry Wilson Coil in Coils Masonic Encyclopedia writes;

"The views of the masonic religion are in open conflict with biblical christianity, so much so that in our opinion a knowledgable and committed mason could not possibly be a true christian."


Coil NEVER said that. I DEFY you to cite me the page number of his "Encyclopedia" where it says that. Where it says that is on this idiotic site (and others)

www.rapidnet.com...

You're being untruthful mint....at the expense of those (unlike me and some others here) who are too lazy to do their own research. That site is where this quote came from. Coil says of Masonry and Religion (and don't try to hoodwink me...I have it in book form and in an electronic searchable format...so I KNOW you're spreading lies)

Coil's "Masonic Encyclopedia" Page 513:

"Freemasonry is not a religion. No stretching of one's imagination can find the necessary elements to characterize anything in ancient craft Masonry as a religion. As a total structure it has NO dogma, and NO theology; it saves NO souls and it competes with NO organized religion. It accepts good men from EVERY clime regardless of their religious beliefs." etc. etc. for about four pages. (emphasis mine)

Sorry mint. You lied. You lose. The theme of ATS is "Deny Ignorance" Try denying it rather than perpetuating it.




In The Higher Degree Handbook, page 25, written by JSM Ward, a 33rd degree mason and historian, writes;

"A considerable amount of excision was necessitated by the alteration of the clause in the masonic constitution which changed masonry from a christian to a non-christian basis."


This is because as a society of free-thinkers (as poined out by ML earlie) Freemasonry realized (unlike the vast majority of organized religions) that we are ALL God's children. Not just the Baptists or Methodists or Pentecostals. God made us all and loves us all, therefore we're all Brethren in His eyes. That's what Freemasonry is all about.


[edit on 8-7-2009 by senrak]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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I would sincerely like to see a response from Mintwithahole about this...

If he is lying, it's kinda disturbing to see what lengths an average dude like him will go to in order to demonise Feemasonry.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Morals & Dogma.
"Conceals it's secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the elect and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of it's symbols to mislead, to conceal the truth which it calls light, from them and to draw them away from it."

Morals & Dogma.
"It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. There true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of masonry. . ."


Again herein lies the problem with your blatant misunderstanding of Freemasonry. There is NOTHING withheld from ANY member of the Masonic Fraternity as pertains to Masonic Education. Do you know how a Mason BECOMES an "Adept"; a "Sage"; a "Prince of Masonry" ? BY STUDYING and LEARNING MASONRY. The education is available to EVERY Mason on earth.

Some, however, choose not to learn. So of course it's concealed from them. Concealed by their own choice..NOT Masonry's choice. All they have to do is express a sincere desire to learn....and some of them will. Some of them will not.

Same holds true in the secular world. Some people desire education. Some are happy accepting what Google told them. [sigh]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by Roark
I would sincerely like to see a response from Mintwithahole about this...

If he is lying, it's kinda disturbing to see what lengths an average dude like him will go to in order to demonise Feemasonry.


Look at the lengths liars like John Ankerberg went to; Ron Carlson; Jim Shaw, God bless his soul (if he had one). I don't think mint is purposely lying to deceive....I think mint is like all the others. Google up info about Masons written by people who've NEVER BEEN Masons and it must be true. Talk to actual walking, talking, living, active MASONS and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Go figure.


[edit on 8-7-2009 by senrak]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

Is there any evidence to these incidents? What walks of life requires membership in the Lodge?

If it did happen shame on the brothers and they deserve to be reprimanded for it, but it's unlikely as we are told we cannot recruit.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

The Bible does indeed say that, but as we are a Fraternity that practices religious tolerance and we are made up of men of different faiths we use a generic name for God so as not to show preference to one over the other.

We still think and speak for ourselves. Our freedoms and free will haven't changed. Like I've said before we don't go around telling each other how cool or great we are.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

We're not masquerading as a religion though, nor do we claim to be a religion or a pathway to God.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

We are still men of God and we use a generic prayer. Funeral services are to honor and lay the apron with the body. Many non-religious organizations give funeral services. And actually no, it does not constitute a religion.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

Religions don't like us as we believe in religious tolerance.

Freemasonry is non-denominational when it comes to religion as we have many men of different faiths. Religion and politics are not to be talked about within the Lodge. Peace and harmony prevailing.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

Who were these Freemasons that were present? And who cares if they were Freemasons? If they were architects or construction foreman they were just doing their job.

No offense, but you are just speculation about the upper management.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 

It's the same old argument with you CT's: lower masons don't know anything, upper echelons have their hands on everything and conceal everything from the lower echelons. We CTs know nothing of the inner operations and foolishly twist the structure and words of others, but we're going to lecture the members on what we think we know.

You quote Albert Pike like his words mean something to anything other than the Scottish Rite, a branch of the Freemasons.

You must realize that our Oaths are symbolic and figurative.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by Roark
I would sincerely like to see a response from Mintwithahole about this...

If he is lying, it's kinda disturbing to see what lengths an average dude like him will go to in order to demonise Feemasonry.


I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. At best, if he ever acknowledges the post, he'll handwave it away as if it were some minor quibble. That's the way anti-Masons work when caught in a lie



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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Everybody (and this is for Anti-Masons, Masons, and passerby's), to keep this thread from being locked and members banned or warned like in the other thread, keep your egos to yourselves.
Before a mod comes in here, please stop it with the trolling, baiting, and flaming.

If you feel someone's acting like a tool, take the high ground, not the low ground, please.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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My brothers and sisters and I were the only living relatives of our great-aunt. Her sister-in-law, my grandmother, said to my brother that our great-aunt and her husband were leaving their estate to us. I didn't hear about this until after my great-aunt and uncle's death, so I went to the courthouse to have a look at the will. It was three pages long. On the first page, there was the usual wife-to-husband, husband-to-wife transfer. On the second page, my aunt's jewelry was left to a nursing home worker at the nursing home where my uncle lived at the end of his life, and all the rest of the estate was left to the Masons. It was a sizeable estate, enough to pay for the new masonic lodge in my hometown. On the third page were the signatures. I've NEVER trusted that the Masonic lawyer who handled their will for them didn't exchange the real second page for the one that I saw at the courthouse. Why should I?



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by novacs4me
 


if you didn't file a lawsuit, I suspect you might be pulling someones leg. Or perhaps that is what your great uncle had intended. Making wild stories to make a group look bad is a bit childish. That is a problem this time of year. the kids are out of school.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 06:24 AM
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No, I have no reason to lie, and I am not a child. But I am glad you brought up the 'lawsuit' idea, because I considered it. But I could not figure out how to find a non-masonic lawyer. How does one do that?

It has been over 15 years since I looked at the will at the courthouse. I imagine the statute of limitations has run out. My consolation is that if our family was cheated of our inheritance, the person or people who did it will face a just God one day. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes!



[edit on 9-7-2009 by novacs4me]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
No, I have no reason to lie, and I am not a child.


Really? Do you know a second copy is filed in the local hall of records? It is compared to the will that you file and if they are the same the estate is probated. Unless the alleged 'Masonic Lawyer' changed the second copy infront of your father before it was signed, sealed and filed then I seriously doubt your story. Nice try though.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 06:52 AM
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I searched online for a 'hall of records' for my home county, because I had never heard of such a thing. Does every county have one? No, I did not know about a second copy being filed anywhere. I'm not sure why you mention my father, as this all happened on my mother's side of the family, and she died after her father but before her mother. Mom was an only child.

I can't remember if page 2 had only my great-uncle's signature on it, but why would the will show my great-aunt's rings going to a nursing home attendant if page 3 had both my great-aunt and great-uncle's signatures? My aunt predeceased my uncle. The time frame doesn't work. What you have told me only raises my suspicions that the lawyer went to the nursing home to 'convince' poor old senile Charlie to change his will so that there would be matching copies in the courthouse and the 'hall of records'.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by novacs4me]

[edit on 9-7-2009 by novacs4me]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by senrak
 

I read the views of Henry Wilson Coil concerning the compatibility of christianity and masonry on several sites, such as this;

www.iclnet.org...


He talks about masonry being a "distinct religion", something which I mentioned earlier and which was strongly denied by you masons! I love the fact that you think I'm breaking some T&C rules just because I quote from a website. . . Very strange!
I have realised that once you start to lose the argument you invariably run to the mods crying how you've been abused. Ah, it's the way of things. I don't have to do that because I let the facts speak for themselves. I cite a website and am accused of lieing but you can pledge on the holy bible to murder someone and still, somehow, believe you hold some moral highground!!
Tell me, have you ever been asked to carry out your oath?



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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I find it extremely funny that 1 ATS poster thinks he can speak for the masons (i know there are 100's of masons on this site)

Many people in my family are masons, and they don't know #!

They are too low down..



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by Roark
I would sincerely like to see a response from Mintwithahole about this...

If he is lying, it's kinda disturbing to see what lengths an average dude like him will go to in order to demonise Feemasonry.


Look at the lengths liars like John Ankerberg went to; Ron Carlson; Jim Shaw, God bless his soul (if he had one). I don't think mint is purposely lying to deceive....I think mint is like all the others. Google up info about Masons written by people who've NEVER BEEN Masons and it must be true. Talk to actual walking, talking, living, active MASONS and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Go figure.


[edit on 8-7-2009 by senrak]


Look, I don't trust freemasons but if I have, by accident, quoted a liar or cited an inaccurate statement I will of course apologise. But it's a bit rich that we who have problems with the fraternity are either criticised for not researching the subject or attacked for believing ridiculous statements such as the old lizard thing.
I do research masonry and the more I read the more I become concerned that there is a subtle brainwashing taking place. Your enthusiasm to gain higher degrees and be accepted by your brothers actually ends up with you swearing on the holy bible to kill someone if callled on to do so. Don't you think thats weird?



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I love the fact that you think I'm breaking some T&C rules just because I quote from a website. . . Very strange!


Wrong. You falsely claimed to be quoting from Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia. In other words, you were caught in a bald-faced lie.



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by estavilso
I find it extremely funny that 1 ATS poster thinks he can speak for the masons (i know there are 100's of masons on this site)

Many people in my family are masons, and they don't know squat!

They are too low down..


There might be a dozen tops on the forum and oddly enough, we're not all in the same timezone nor even the same continents. Plus if he's already said what needs to be said in a reply, what's gained by a bunch of echoes? Ergo, it might seem to you like one person's speaking for a group.

And again we have a non-Mason who somehow believes he/she knows more than Masons. That's sort of mindset's kind of like me saying I know more about flying an airliner because I've used a flight sim on my home PC. Talk about ego!



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

I do research masonry and the more I read the more I become concerned that there is a subtle brainwashing taking place.


If you could, while you are researching, please try to get info from pro masonic sites as well as the Christian mason bashing sites you have been visiting. If you search for information from a biased source, then it is very possible that you will be getting biased information. We all have to find our own truth, just make sure yours isn't a lie.



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