We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

reply to post by network dude


We quit celebrating Consumermas.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

But freemasonry is at odds with christianity! The twp are incompatible. . .
Henry Wilson Coil in Coils Masonic Encyclopedia writes;

"The views of the masonic religion are in open conflict with biblical christianity, so much so that in our opinion a knowledgable and committed mason could not possibly be a true christian."

Not having that book in my collection, I can't vouch for the quote and I can only speak from my own experience. In any case, this is a matter of opinion. My experience is (as I said earlier) that Masonry is an adjunct to one's own religion, not a replacement for it. I've yet to see anything in any of our rituals to make me think otherwise.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
In The Higher Degree Handbook, page 25, written by JSM Ward, a 33rd degree mason and historian, writes;

"A considerable amount of excision was necessitated by the alteration of the clause in the masonic constitution which changed masonry from a christian to a non-christian basis."

He goes on to say how anything christian was eliminated. . .

Which is entirely consistent with making the Craft more open and inclusive than it may have originally been. But you seem to be parsing "non-christian" to mean anti-christian which I'd suggest was not the author's intent.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
So maybe you are breaking some masonic law taking your christian laws into the lodge?

Sorry but where do you get the idea that Christian laws are taken into lodge? Certainly Masons everywhere are exhorted to bind themselves to the laws of the society they live in. If you're defining that as "christian" law, I think you're being rather too specific.

reply to post by Hazelnut


You do realize Christianity also includes many Pagan beliefs?

reply to post by Hazelnut


I edited my previous post to answer your statement.
But since you stopped celebrating Christmas, did you quit birthdays as well? Most of the celebrations we have today involving gifts is derived from pagan rituals. And while were at it, who is to say that the pagan way is the wrong way? pagans don't worship the devil, or disbelieve in a higher power. I don't think God is so specific that he won't talk to you unless you address him correctly. I think he hears you and will answer you no matter what you call him, as long as you call him.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Hazelnut

 

I edited my previous post to answer your statement.
But since you stopped celebrating Christmas, did you quit birthdays as well? Most of the celebrations we have today involving gifts is derived from pagan rituals. And while were at it, who is to say that the pagan way is the wrong way? pagans don't worship the devil, or disbelieve in a higher power. I don't think God is so specific that he won't talk to you unless you address him correctly. I think he hears you and will answer you no matter what you call him, as long as you call him.

I'm in a period of change (again) and my usual beliefs were shattered leaving me with new options to explore. I love nature and earth, etc. ATM I'm exploring nature-based paths. Historically, the pagan way was overtaken by other newly acquired religious powers which turned its back on the earth and nature itself.

I have no answers except what my heart tells me. I pass no judgement on people except when they deliberately cling to misconceptions. I do it too. And pass the harshest judgement on myself for it.

I will search for knowledge for the rest of my life. I began that way and will finish likewise. All along I have to keep readjusting my current beliefs and it is challenging. No challenge that comes my way is overlooked. It makes me stronger.

There is everything right with trying to do good. Being deceived in my charitability is another thing altogether.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Hazelnut

 

what did you get for Christmas last year. Just name one gift. the one that really made you happy.

edit to add:I thought you would be right back to answer but since you are not, I will tell you where I was going with that. Christmas as a whole is founded on a pagan idea. The tree thing, yea pagan. But we still enjoy that time of year. That doesn't make it bad. But who is any individual to decide what I believe is good? As long as my ways fit in with society (meaning I don't go around killing people and breaking the law) then what I personally believe masonry is all about is of no concern to anyone else. If I thought it was a mockery of my religion, I would not be a member. If it was no longer fulfilling to my soul, I would quit. But since it is what I like I will remain a mason. Even it someone thinks it is a bad idea. God made us each with a brain of our own. I choose to use mine to make my own decisions.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by network dude]

I wish I had read your edit before I replied.

I respect every word you said and agree too. That is the kind of world I wish we all wanted, one where we give each other the freedom and respect to follow our own pursuits honestly. I pass no judgment on you my friend.

I loved my father very much (RIP) and respected him on everything. He was stunned when I guessed the secret but still he did not reveal anything, bound by his honor and oath. My husband is the same way. You are all brothers.

The recognition of the ancient symbology should not be masked for PC.

reply to post by RuneSpider


LOL, yes. I've come to learn that to my shock and amazement. Part of why ATS intrigues me is to discover what else I may have been mislead about.

reply to post by Hazelnut


it seem we are on the same path then. I just don't think that the direction I am going now is wrong. And I try not to judge other people's beliefs because they might be right. They might also be wrong so I won't just jump on any bandwagon that happens by. I think that anything that makes you grow spiritually is a good thing. Especially when you are required to find your own truth. After all, that is the only one that really matters right?

Originally posted by Hazelnut
What you don't realize is that your symbolism, rituals and practices are derived from pagan practices.

What I don't realize? Heck, that Pagan symbolism, ritual & practice is why I joined!!! Nobody's fooled me.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Freemasonry is not a religion...

None of any religion in the world, can really fullfill all spiritual needs,
thats why masonry is so important, masonry with each and every religions
is the Enlightenment of humanity's soul.

without masonry, humanity's soul, is like a a ship without a lighthouse,
a unclosed circle, a piramid without his capstone...

Outside a Masonic Temple, Masons are first and foremost men and
the Great Architect of the Universe, is first and foremost GOD

To spread Masonic Light throughout the world, you have to be
a chosen worthy and only then, enlightenment could fulfill all
spiritual needs.

If you really want to find, who you are and where to find the Light,
, you'll have to walk all the way to the Light. Brothers can only guide you,
you'll have to work, to deserve it...

we are not allowed to Direcly recruit, Brothers can only Help you and
Guide you, to find the key to open the masonic doors, by your self..!

It's NOT good to know everything, i decided long ago to see only the
positive side of life and you should all... do the same and thrust
Freemasonry.

We care to help humanity, we volunteer to Guide the world to a peacful
and better World, you should all at least, appreciate it..

We don't spy you behind your closed doors, why would you not do the same.



'' 2b1ask1 ''
Fraternally yours,

reply to post by Hazelnut


Masonic Light has proven to have a wealth of information regarding occult studies in religion,many of the masons here seem to have a working understanding of both their organization and the esoteric parts of their personal religions.

Not saying that such is universal, of course, however it's a broad brush to paint with.


(Also, is there actually a Masonic office of PoohBah?)

I wouldn't consider my self any type of religion altho i beleave in Jesus and the King James Bible.


This website that i talked about before also has info on Freemasonry.


pseudoccultmedia.blogspot.com...

[edit on 8-7-2009 by King Seesar]

reply to post by King Seesar


Why the King James specifically, it's a relatively poor translation in comparison to others, and was translated in favor of James himself.

Originally posted by King Seesar
This website that i talked about before also has info on Freemasonry.


pseudoccultmedia.blogspot.com...

Gee, you seem to like that site an awful lot...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Almost as much as you like that other site...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Spam much?

reply to post by King Seesar


that site was very confusing. And very Paris Hilton Heavy. I am not sure what anyone would get out of that. maybe you could give us a little run down of what I just saw. I sure can't.

reply to post by Brothers in Arms

Oh dear, you have it bad don't you?
I don't want to ba mason! I feel that I can get through life without having to go through the whole brother back slapping, noose wearing thing thank you very much. While I concede that the masons on here aren't devil worshipping luciferians I still mistrust the fraternity. There is a definite link with the Illuminati and the elite which I don't think ordinary masons realise, and there's much more going on in the upper eschelons than you either know or care to admit.
If masons need more light, buy a torch!

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Hazelnut

 

Masonic Light has proven to have a wealth of information regarding occult studies in religion,many of the masons here seem to have a working understanding of both their organization and the esoteric parts of their personal religions.

Not saying that such is universal, of course, however it's a broad brush to paint with.


(Also, is there actually a Masonic office of PoohBah?)

Of course not! I can never remember the proper title though. I think its something like Grand Master or something like that. You should know. Give me some hints and I'll pick the right one. lol

reply to post by Hazelnut


there is the Master of the lodge (worshipful master)
the Grand Master of the Grand lodge. (HMFIC)
and then the Grand Architect of the Universe.

I would hope he fits into the first two.

reply to post by network dude


Any Poobahs among the shriners maybe? Seems like it'd fit there.

reply to post by network dude


He was the Worshipful Master. Doh... I know who the architect of the universe is, I think.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Hazelnut]