Denial Of The Holocaust, page 4

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reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:23 PM by Ludde

Many people like myself do not insist that Hitler was good. But passing judgement is a waste of time, the Zionist regime is our day's Hitler, and you can find unkind qualities in every human on earth. But I want to make something clear, the doing of this supposed Holocaust is not in sole remembrance of the Jews, in fact many people agree with me that they were a minority. I for one, refuse to privilege them with my sympathy for something I have never witnessed, and quite frankly I'm getting tired of the narcissistic approach by the whining Jews. The Slavery happened too, the unfair treatment of the Irish and Scottish, the pillaging of the Palestinians and Gazans continue to this day. Get.Over.It. The Germans provided retribution for something they are not directly responsible for, now stop holding the free world at guilt, as if you were collectively attacked in exclusivity. You were, as everyone else at that time, and in equal view, was preyed upon -- fortunately, in lesser numbers. Now, I personally believe the reason the Jews bring this up is because they truthfully feel that because they practice Judaism they are the children of God, and are entitled to bend gravity and conscience, but this has been debunked here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:26 PM by ZeroKnowledge

reply to post by metaldemon2000

Why say things that are lies?
Please, provide examples of:

any of the jewish families that "dissapeared" during the war werent nescessarily killed. Many of the more influential and wealthy families were allowed to adopt German names and become citizens of Germany for a price. Many renounced their beliefs so they would not be killed and many others fled the country, many of whom never told their families and never seen them again and were thought to be killed.

Name me one Jew that Nazis allowed to stay in Germany because they "became citizens of Germany". Before Nazis - German Jews were Martian citizens?
Or Jew that converted to other faith - provide me example of this helping.
Hitler was all into races. He had a ,hmm, problem with Jewish race. It did not help if Jew was citizen of Germany or Poland, member of Communist or Nazi party, was religious Jew, Christian or Atheist. See - you do not even understand what went over there, and yet you feel competent to comment if it is true or not.

It obviously wasnt a holocaust or genocide since there are a very large amount of jewish peoples these days

What does THAT mean? Today there are less Jews then there were in 1939. Are there less Canadians then there were in 1939?

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:30 PM by Ludde

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by metaldemon2000

Why say things that are lies?
Please, provide examples of:

any of the jewish families that "dissapeared" during the war werent nescessarily killed. Many of the more influential and wealthy families were allowed to adopt German names and become citizens of Germany for a price. Many renounced their beliefs so they would not be killed and many others fled the country, many of whom never told their families and never seen them again and were thought to be killed.

Name me one Jew that Nazis allowed to stay in Germany because they "became citizens of Germany". Before Nazis - German Jews were Martian citizens?
Or Jew that converted to other faith - provide me example of this helping.
Hitler was all into races. He had a ,hmm, problem with Jewish race. It did not help if Jew was citizen of Germany or Poland, member of Communist or Nazi party, was religious Jew, Christian or Atheist. See - you do not even understand what went over there, and yet you feel competent to comment if it is true or not.

It obviously wasnt a holocaust or genocide since there are a very large amount of jewish peoples these days

What does THAT mean? Today there are less Jews then there were in 1939. Are there less Canadians then there were in 1939?

If the things he said are true, then of course it is almost impossible to find proof for it, just as its almost impossible to verify the claim that six million Jews were killed. And, after all, this is a conspiracy forum. Sometimes, you have to use your common sense and put two plus two together. Proof is subjective, and sometimes unreachable if common sense is not applied. Ask Sherlock Holmes. But, draw an analogy of how Zionists today behave -- and is it really outlandish to think that even one case of the aforementioned occured? Get real, real get.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:31 PM by metaldemon2000

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Please, provide examples of:

I dont have to provide anything to you. Go read a book and quit being lazy. Take your hate and anger somewhere else.

I never once said i was happy anyone died. Im just saying that we as a society, and jews, for people to stop being annoyed with it, need to get over it. Period.

[edit on 09/6/27 by metaldemon2000]

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:35 PM by ZeroKnowledge

reply to post by metaldemon2000

Name a book that gives such an examples,please. I am that lazy. Of course, you do not have to do it for me. What about your own integrity? Or it is irrelevant? In this case - sorry that i bothered you. I assumed that you are responsible for what you say.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:36 PM by metaldemon2000

reply to post by GorehoundLarry

the mass murder and rape of the Chinese during World War 2 is disgusting

Ironically a German Nazi who was visiting Nanjing at the time helped save many Chinese people from the hands of the Japanese. There is a statue of him there to this day with him wearing the swastika arm band.

The Chinese were treated far worse than the jews in WW2.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:38 PM by ZeroKnowledge

reply to post by Ludde

For numbers killed in Holocaust - i can give you numbers of Jews before and numbers of Jews after. For evidence, i can show you documents and personal testimony. If one claims that Jews converted or paid for German citizenship (and citizenship was actually taken by Nazis) then examples/prove/evidence/numbers are needed. Otherwise - it is just an empty statement.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:39 PM by Ludde

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by metaldemon2000

Name a book that gives such an examples,please. I am that lazy. Of course, you do not have to do it for me. What about your own integrity? Or it is irrelevant? In this case - sorry that i bothered you. I assumed that you are responsible for what you say.

Instead of accusing someone of lies, and then confessing your laziness and inability to research the truth for yourself, well... why don't you try to do your own research? You just shot yourself in the foot and any credibility you had, which was almost null from the start. I propose the ultimate challenge for you, once you overcome your inability to perform your own research, I challenge you to prove that metaldemon2000's statements Aren't true. You see the complexity of this task?

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:42 PM by metaldemon2000

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Seriously dude you need to chill, this is exactly what I am talking about, people who get too worked up about this subject. I am Canadian born but of German decent, you dont think it doesnt bothered me when i get called Jew killer and Nazi or told that my grandparents are a bunch of sick @^#&s (even though they fled Nazi Germany to escape the craziness)?

No I do what everyone else does and i brush it off and you know why? Because it has absolutely nothing to do with my actions or the actions of 95% of all the people alive at the present time and I have no idea how to build a time machine to go back and fix said events.

Get on with you life dude all I am doing is stating my opinion on what I have learned about the subject throughout the course of my life. I am not attacking anyone or saying anything bad about everyone. This is the problem with this subject, some people just cant seem to get over it.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:45 PM by derpif

Seriously there are only a handful of people alive today that lived through the holocaust, weve made sure that the deeds didnt go unpunished, the Germans are still ridiculed and called Nazis and monsters to this very day (which isnt fair), and weve also made sure that the jews wont be harmed again. So whats the big deal? Get on with your lives, stop whining about something that happed over 60 years ago and if somebody has an opinion about a past historical event its not a big deal, just do what we all do and live with it.

And because there are only a handful of survivors alive today these denial theories are so succesful, there aren`t many left to tell how it really was. And I know that the Germans are still ridiculed and called Nazis because I am a German. And I feel it is my responsibility as a German that these crimes won`t be forgotten and that it won`t happen again.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:46 PM by Ludde

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by Ludde

For numbers killed in Holocaust - i can give you numbers of Jews before and numbers of Jews after. For evidence, i can show you documents and personal testimony. If one claims that Jews converted or paid for German citizenship (and citizenship was actually taken by Nazis) then examples/prove/evidence/numbers are needed. Otherwise - it is just an empty statement.

If you insist, please post what you have. And remember who writes history, the winner does. It's not just a quote, and it's not a quote for vain reasons. Your HIS-STORY is contaminated with manufactured bias, I challenge you to first post what you have, then post independent research that hasn't been contaminated by the current powers that be. Anything else is not a neutral and uncontaminated source of information, and I, and other ATS members, will disregard such disinformation like a plague. For example, you can pull ten repetitions of the same lie, written by Jewish authors, or those that do not know the truth. Because those persons are authors does not make the information true. The true numbers, which are obtained through individual research, and even subsequently official sources admit, are well below 1,000,000.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:47 PM by ZenOnKwalsky

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Here's my question. And don't take this the wrong way and I completely expect to be called a Zionist.

If the Nazis hated all the other groups as much as they hated the Jews, why did they single out the Jews to wear the yellow stars reading "Jude" and why did they take such efforts to close all their businesses and destroy synagogues?

[edit on 6/27/2009 by ravenshadow13]

To be Zionist is personal choice... But about the genocide...
do You think Germans killed nearly 30 milions of Russians, Bielorussians, Ukrainias etc in Soviet Union out of pure sympathy? or maybe they killed almost 7 milions of polish residents(about 3milions counted by historians as Jews) because they love them? According to "Generalplan Ost" their intention was to destroy polish nation as such till about 1960. There was also "Operation Tannenberg" etc and a lot of "not scheduled" killing in that part of Europe...
They never succeded but we cant say that they dont try hard enough...
They burned not only the synagogues but but entire villages to make place for collonisation ( "Lebensraum"), often they did it for helping/ hiding freedom fighters or Jews... "pacyfication" of Zamosc Upraising( "Himlerstadt"), Destroing of entire Warsaw duringand after Warsaw Upraising (between 150 and 200 thausands of civilians killed with cold blood)...and much more...all that came of pure sympathy?! Actually Jews were closed by Germans in the ghettos but for polish nation there was a bit bigger ghetto so called "Generalgouvernement fur die besetzen polnishen Gebiete"- GG
Actually only on the East there was death penalty for hiding Jews ...isnt it quite heartless and ugly to call polish peoples antysemites?! And thats for sure qualifies someone doing it to by called Zionist in turn.
About star with "J"- slave workers deported to "Reich" were forced to wear letter on them ("P" for Polish etc).
So much about hijacking holocaust...

peace

[edit on 27-6-2009 by ZenOnKwalsky]

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:52 PM by Ludde

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by Ludde

For numbers killed in Holocaust - i can give you numbers of Jews before and numbers of Jews after. For evidence, i can show you documents and personal testimony. If one claims that Jews converted or paid for German citizenship (and citizenship was actually taken by Nazis) then examples/prove/evidence/numbers are needed. Otherwise - it is just an empty statement.

You have turned the topic of the Holocaust to a sympathetic mental funeral of the Jews, as to disregard the other victims of this tragedy. That is a selfish act and unworthy or recognition nor honour. Now take your whining elsewhere. You keep talking about how many Jews died, it doesn't matter, "dude". The Holocaust is NOT about Jews. The Jews are not a race, so you're trying to imply that if the victims whom died in the Holocaust had not practised the religion of Judaism they were less important than those who did? And you really, really expect me to see you any different than radical Muslims?

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 03:57 PM by ZeroKnowledge

reply to post by Ludde

Research that Earth is flat. You are not lazy, right. However - i am not going to let you easy way out.
Heard about Nuremberg laws? Well:

A Reich citizen is a subject of the State who is of German or related blood, who proves by his conduct that he is willing and fit faithfully to serve the German people and Reich.

Nothing about it being sold for money, nothing about religion. Simple - you are not German or related blood - you are not citizen.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 04:00 PM by Skelkie3

I just notice time and again that the victims and their descendants rarely
if ever will even muse on the topic of why everybody seems to hate them so much. At least within earshot of of the wretched Goy...
Earlier, Ravenshadow says, ' yeah I don't get it either '.

Do you really think she doesn't get it ?

Even the psychopathic response of ' because they hate what they don't understand ( what is that ? ), or ' because we're God's chosen, and they're not ( didn't God actually CURSE juda ? )... would be much better than the
all-too-typical ' yeah I don't get it either ' .

I'm sorry to say it, but it seems the entire Holo-Cult is an excuse for alot of people acting truly wicked.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 04:02 PM by Ludde

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by Ludde

Research that Earth is flat. You are not lazy, right. However - i am not going to let you easy way out.
Heard about Nuremberg laws? Well:

A Reich citizen is a subject of the State who is of German or related blood, who proves by his conduct that he is willing and fit faithfully to serve the German people and Reich.

Nothing about it being sold for money, nothing about religion. Simple - you are not German or related blood - you are not citizen.

omg you're so funny. The United States is a supposed democracy but has it been behaving that way lately? Ironically enough, on the topic we're discussion, Obama has been behaving like Hitler himself. That was weak sauce, sir, and we both know it. You just copy and pasted a half sentence that doesn't even subsidise any of your claims.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 04:05 PM by neformore

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The lack of histprical accuracy, and the ignorance on display in this thread is, frankly, almost as disgusting as the act of trying to deny a genocide. Almost.

So, Heres a history lesson

Heres some maths on the subject

And here is the reality of holocaust denial, in my opinion

The evidence is there. From survivor eye witness reports, through to the Nazi's own records. Holocaust denial relies on ignorance to feed itself.

Don't feed it.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 04:15 PM by Ludde

Originally posted by neformore

The lack of histprical accuracy, and the ignorance on display in this thread is, frankly, almost as disgusting as the act of trying to deny a genocide. Almost.

So, Heres a history lesson

Heres some maths on the subject

And here is the reality of holocaust denial, in my opinion

The evidence is there. From survivor eye witness reports, through to the Nazi's own records. Holocaust denial relies on ignorance to feed itself.

Don't feed it.

Nobody is trying to deny anything. Everyone is trying to make a point that the Holocaust didn't happen only to the Jews. And, I don't see why remembrance of tragedy, particularly, this single case, should be so prominent in this day and age? I also, don't see you go around defending Slavery, or anything like that. Keep in mind, NOBODY is denying the holocaust. Also, keep two things in mind. Nobody should be COERCED into developing sympathy, as if they were born into those times of tragedy, and freedom of speech exists (so I thought), where one could embrace or deny anything. No matter whether it hurts other people or not. History is almost conclusive to a fairy tale book in many cases, as its grossly distorted. I think with all of the alternative news advancements, HIS STORY isn't is as credible as it used to be, especially applying to this case.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Ludde]

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 04:16 PM by Perseus Apex

What I see here is a failure to communicate.

Let me see if I can help clear up a few inconsistencies.

Below, lies a link; a good read when you find the time. I believe the time is now, considering you are hear still pointing fingers at the actors on the stage.

There is and has always been an unseen hand at the switch of world 'events'.

Here's more:

The Timeline

Let's work on moving the human race forward while attempting to see your Brother in yourself.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Perseus Apex]

reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 04:24 PM by ZeroKnowledge

reply to post by Ludde

I have not turned anything into anything. I claim that there was systematic,planned extermination of Jews by Nazi Germany. And victors do wright history, there is however a certain limitation to what one could write.
Britain cannot remove Dresden bombing. USA cannot remove Hiroshima and Nagasaki,Soviet Union cannot remove Katyn. Nazi apologists, even if they would win, would not be able to write off their crimes.
You want independent info - well here is Polish census, by Poles, in their independent country with no Jews in charge in 1931. It states approximetly 3000000 Jews and approximetly 21 million Poles. There is Soviet census from 1926 that has 2.6 million Jews and 78 million Russians.
After WW2:
Polish census (2002 - there are earlier ones but you as not lazy can clearly do something positive and find the info): 38 million, 1500 Jews. Big drop , ah? All paid for German nationality in WW2? All went to Israel that had 700000 Jews in 1948?
Soviet census (1959) 3 million Jews and 99 millions Russians.

As for whining - prove me wrong. You are clearly trying to provocate me while providing no real info beside insults. So try to bring something positive, will you. Explain to lazy discredited whiner me why :
WW2 was tragedy for Polish people. And yet today there are more then before WW2. Not so to Polish Jews. So maybe you can provide an explanation?