Denial Of The Holocaust

Originally posted by walsbg22
Guys, can you tell me when Jews have used the holocaust for sympathy or to get something. I'd like a video or quote from good source because I've never seen this used.

Yeah exactly I have no freaking clue what they are talking about when they say this stuff. I know no jews who talk about or even think about the holocaust, I even know survivors and not one of them ever talks about it or "complains"... although they have the right to "complain" if they want, they went through hell.

And why do people even complain about the numbers, the numbers dont matter. The point is that the holocaust DID happen and hitler targeted the jews the most.

All of you people need to get over your petty prejudice/racism and bigotry, because its disgusting and we as a people are never going to move forward with this crap (although it'll never go away, there will ALWAYS be idiots on this earth who hate people just because they are different).

Forgive me for coming off angry but you cant blame me there are people in here that are literally just brushing off what happened to the jewish people and saying it never happened. One side of my family is jewish and I know the FACTS about what happened because I have SURVIVORS IN MY FAMILY so of course I'm going to be mad.

And no one is becoming jewish just to gain some kinda power in the world, that is just absurd sorry to say.

Its blatantly obvious to me after reading through this thread that this isnt about whether the holocaust happened or not. What this thread really boils down to you is you anti semetic people where just looking for a way to belittle jews and post your hate propaganda on ATS, so you made this thread.

I seriously find this hilarious because not once on ats or really ANYWHERE on the internet have I seen a thread with jewish people complaining about anything, but yet I DO see tons upon tons of threads with your idiot holocaust deniers complaining... So whos the real whiner and complainer? The jews or you? I think you.


[edit on 4-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 4-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by KRISKALI777

 

I know they have a hard time accepting that they aren't really 'Gods' chosen people and that they were the only ones vilified in the war.

Oh no they ARE God's chosen people and you and many like you are going to soon find that out to your horror - as will the Russian and Iranian airforces and army. God will soon reclaim the 6000 year lease to this earth He gave man, and all your scoffing and disbelief will on

ly serve to ensure your baking - repent.

where did you get this from? nonsense , jews aren't god's chosen

Because Pol Pot didn't conquer Europe, oppress entire continents (Africa Asia and Europe) and cause a vacuum of power that laster until 1989.

So any attempt to reinvigorate this Hitler is bad.


If you don't think the Holocaust happened, tell my grandfather who liberated the camp and spit on deniers every time he saw them.

Allow me to continue the tradition virtually

[edit on 4-7-2009 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by fritz

Originally posted by bigyin The Jews seem to have no idea how pityful they sound as they protest about the documented facts of the holocaust.

Compare it with the more than documented facts, even video evidence of the holocaust they created in Gaza and they are denying it happened.

Should it not be a crime to deny the holocaust in Gaza ?

If it were most Jews should now be in jail.

FRIGGING HELL!

The world's press and I must have missed the building of extermination camps and their gas chambers in Gaza.

The world's press and I must have missed the rounding up of millions of Arab men, women and children.

The world's press and I must have missed all the trains going to the death camps.

What Holocaust are you talking about?

Look up the definition of holocaust ... the first example i found was "1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire." ref: www.thefreedictionary.com...

In my view the needless destruction of property and life in Gaza equates to a holocaust using the above definition.

The Gaza holocaust was captured for all to see on video, tv, and other media.... despite the best efforts of the IDF to prevent us seeing it. Not to mention the persecution of the Palestinians before and after said event.

Despite the Clear Evidence the Israeli's Deny what happened, even when UN investigators presented eveidence of war crimes, still the Israelis deny it.

So how come it is ok for Israeli's/Jews to deny a holocaust event that we all saw happening and yet if anybody attempts to even investigate, amend, change, query, a holocaust event that not of us were around to witness they are banged up.

If you want to continue to deny that the Gaza event was a holocaust, then let me ask you how many Palestinians would have to die for the event to qualify in your mind as a holocaust? About 1500 persished, is that not enough for you ?...... how many then? 6 million ?

reply to post by bigyin


1 million for me. bellow that, and it's just a normal war.

Most wars go into the 10s of thousands of dead civilians

I'm impressed by how few died by your numbers. It indicates clear care for life and where something is shooting.

I'm even willing to make a special case for Gaze because it's not a continent. A Holocaust for them would be roughly 100,000. I think Iraq was probably a holocaust by my viewpoint. It's quite obvious.

But Gaza? Nope. too few have died, far too little to qualify. If you think 1500 is a holocaust and a "great destruction" of life and property, then 911 was a holocaust. 2 buildings falling killed more than your numbers.

911 was not a holocaust. It was an attack. One lone attack planned for a long time.

Are the ongoing bombings of Europeans a holocaust? About the same have died I think. No. It's not.



So, in conclusion, unless the number dead can fill a small city, it is not a holocaust. It is simply war.

Germany's 1,540,000 civilian deaths was a holocaust, Russia's 11 million Civilians deaths was a holocaust.

1500 Palisitinians is not a holocaust.


[edit on 4-7-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by bigyin


Hi Bigyin!
I guess it really comes down to which definition we prefer....here are a few from Wiki.

The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστον (holókauston): holos, "whole" and kaustos, "burnt"), also known as The Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, Latinized ha'shoah; Yiddish: חורבן, Latinized churben or hurban[2]) is the term generally used to describe the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, a program of systematic state-sponsored extermination by Nazi Germany, under Adolf Hitler, its allies, and collaborators.[3] Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' systematic murder of millions of people in other groups, including ethnic Poles, the Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, gay men, and political and religious opponents.[4] By this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims is between 11 million and 17 million people.[5]

Obviously here it pertains to a more WWII scenario. I've looked up Gormans definition as well; which differs of being pertinent to any great amount of people usually dying by Fire.
I guess Holocaust could be used for any attempted genocide??

Sorry but I wouldnt consider 1500 people a holocaust... if 1500 people dieing is considered a holocaust, well then there have been MILLIONS of holocausts by that logic...

A BIG HUGE difference between 1500 people and MILLIONS of people, BIG HUGE difference, sorry to say.

Like a guy a few posts above said, this is a war, not a holocaust, there is a difference.

You are obviously just using this whole gaza thing as a reason to justifying your "jew-hating". lol

Thank you, move along.


[edit on 5-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply to post by jeasahtheseer


Who is using the GAZA thing?
get a grip of this thread and read it; then you may know the pandering to some people concrete set attitudes to discussing this subject.
To alienate people by overly staunch point of view does nothing for this discussion.
If you are adamant about your stance on this topic, how about a lengthy post explaining why and your actual evidence to show what your angle on this issue is.
That would be much more productive to this discussion rather than a damning 'fly-by-night' sucker-punch comment.
Until then you are just another blow-in, parroting the safe and pathetic views of those that never have their own opnion on anything; but rather, champion the side of debate with the upper-hand.
If you have no recourse.........I'll assume you've taken your bat and gone home

I'm not a jew hater... lets get that straight. I don't even hate the English... I don't hate anybody except my tax inspector.

I believe the Jews are deluded about their sole right to feel sorry about themselves.

The fact is there has been over history many examples of holocausts, or wars or attacks or whatever anybody wants to call them depending on the numbers of deaths involved.

Everyone of them can be investigated, talked about, enquired about, rewriiten, analised, without anybody taking offence .... except for some reason the holocaust the Jews go on about.

Why is that ?

Why are we not permitted to discuss the possibility that some of the facts about the case may be wrong or different... even when new evidence is brought to light.

It becomes mor maddening when the Jews then go on to deny any wrong doing by themselves when clearly throughout history right up to very recent times they are not exactly saints.

I never hear a Jewish person use the Holocaust as an excuse to have preferential treatment.
I am not sure about the holocaust deniers, they obviously have their own agenda.
It happened just as the Killing Fields in Cambodia are fact, as is the fact the white man almost exterminated native Americans, and Aboriginal Australians.

Does anyone deny the millions who died in the slave trade, has the world forgotton this terrible truth, of course not.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
I never hear a Jewish person use the Holocaust as an excuse to have preferential treatment.
I am not sure about the holocaust deniers, they obviously have their own agenda.
It happened just as the Killing Fields in Cambodia are fact, as is the fact the white man almost exterminated native Americans, and Aboriginal Australians.

Does anyone deny the millions who died in the slave trade, has the world forgotton this terrible truth, of course not.

I never denied that the holocaust happened nor any of the other tragedies, but whilst the history of those events can be examined and revised, the Jewish event cannot.

Why ?

reply to post by bigyin


Because the other mass exterminations happened further before, when there were no pictures and movies.

The difference is that the Jewish holocaust of WW2 was the first one caught en mass on film and camera, and to which so many of it's operators so happily pronounced their deeds without regret.

Also, this goes for any holocaust.

The Armenian holocaust was the first one caught on camera, but not en mass as in WW2. This holocaust, like the Jewish one, cannot be denied. The facts are simple, straight forward, and obvious. Just like the Jewish one.

The further you go back beyond that, the more you have to rely on word of mouth, which can be a big if.

The Armenian and Jewish ones are still brought up because people keep saying it never happened or not like it was, and unlike previous holocausts, the two, and most of the ones after that, were all caught on camera.

The fact remains that the Jewish holocaust was the first holocaust to occur in the modern era to it situation. It happened during the almost miraculous rise of a hateful oppressive government.

For as long as man brings up WW2, the holocaust will be brought up with it.

Why don't we bring up Pol Pot or African holocausts as much? Because to be frank, they're not as awesome and interesting. The facts surrounding them are bland and generic.

WW2 is simply more interesting. It's the last war where there was a clearly defined evil side and a clearly defined good side.

Hence forth, no war has been like this, and likewise, no holocaust has been like this.

The war in the Gaza strip is not a holocaust. 1500 people is not that big, however large you think it is. And the war itself is frankly boring, BS, and pathetic.

Unlike WW2, the war in Palestine can basically be described in its 70 year continuum as the following.

Baby A takes the ball from baby B and baby B fights for it. Baby B takes the ball from baby A, and baby A fights for it.

It's boring, dull, and just not related to my life or anyone elses in the west. Both sides are evil bastards, both have committed horrible crimes, and to be honest with you, all my friends and family hope both sides exterminate each other, because they do not care about it. It's a tiny part of the globe.


Meanwhile, WW2 is not like this. It was big, there were clearly defined lines, and there was a lot more interesting stuff then two babies fighting over a ball.


Sorry, but the title of a book goes great here. "He's just not that into you" He being the west, you being the conflict in Palestine.



[edit on 5-7-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


Thanks for your reply, but I have to say I don't accept any of what you say.

reply to post by bigyin


That's the facts of life. And it's how most Americans view it.

Why don't you accept it?

Most Americans could not care what happens. And I'm beginning to lean this way. Both of them do not deserve independence. They deserve 100 years under a forced UN nation with two states for each side and a government based off a constitutional republic, forcing them to make amends and live together.

Weather you accept it or not. The war is not important. WW2 is more important and interesting then a bunch of babies fighting for a slither of rock.

ww2 is of greater interests, and so thus the holocaust, being a part of WW2, will forever be brought up.

reply to post by bigyin[/url]

What a pity you did not bother to read further down your selected webpage.

Whilst I agree with the overall quote you site, however if you read the whole page instead of just the information that suits your need, you would have found the Thesaurus which explains the term "Holocaust" and associated wording precisely:

holocaust - an act of mass destruction and loss of life (especially in war or by fire); "a nuclear holocaust"

Associated wording:

destruction, devastation - the termination of something by causing so much damage to it that it cannot be repaired or no longer exists

Now I am not pedantic and neither am I being facetious but as I said before, unless the world's press and I missed the utter destruction of Gaza and the total annhilation of it's populace, the appalling actions
carried out by the Israeli's armed forces cannot be classed as a Holocaust!

reply to post by fritz


That may be your opinion but it's not mine, and I suspect not everyone's either.

All Jews were not anniliated therefore by your reasoning their event was not a holocaust.

At the time of ww2 the jews did not own any land to call their own so we are told, therefore they could not have suffered any loss of territory.

The Palestinians on the other hand have lost a lot of territory to the Jews. According to wiki the Gaza strip is home to approx 1.5 million Palestinians, about 1 million are registered as refugees having being being driven from their homelands. What little territory they have left has been shelled by the IDF and about 1500 killed... 0.1% of the population... in 3 weeks.

Do the maths... if IDF continued for 4 years then that would equate to 7% of the population.... I call that a holocaust.

But if you want to deny it go ahead.... theres no law against it.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by bigyin]

[edit on 5-7-2009 by bigyin]

[edit on 5-7-2009 by bigyin]

reply to post by bigyin


Except that wars rarely go linearly and according to math. And now that Iran is cripples, Syria backing off, and the west is cracking down on things, how exactly will fighting continue? What will the fight with, spoons ans knives? Without guns, they will not fight. Without the will to fight, they will remain as they are.

Also Gaza is not that big. If Russia took over long Island, it would be the equivilent.

You're not making a very good reason for why it's a holocaust.

Again, the millions who died in the extermination operations in Africa is a holocaust, the Germans civilians who died by allied hands is a holocaust, the Jews killed by German hands is a holocaust, the millions of Russian civilians killed is a holocaust, The US extermination of the Cherokee is a holocaust.

One little pebble being invaded in the sea of the land that is Earth is not a holocaust, 1500 people is not even a high number, even by modern standards. 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed is a good example of a mini holocaust, as the total inhalation of the infrastructure of Iraq and the suppression of its people across a large land mass can be seen as one.

a 70 year ongoing war of attrition is not.


And also, I want to call you out on something. the 1500 were not all civilians. This makes it look even less like a holocaust. The war has killed fewer civilians then I would be able to believe. This is amazing.



I actually say congratulation to Israel. They managed to kill only equal to a tiny town's worth of people

That's actually a great job that I didn't even realize.

reply to post by dizzylizzy

I never hear a Jewish person use the Holocaust as an excuse to have preferential treatment.

Hi Dizzy,
Have you never seen the news? Have you never been to a large western cemetary (in capital cities)? Have you not seen the human rights abuse happening in Gaza right now; as it has been for years?
No preferential treatment, really???
Oh. And don't try and rationalize by comparing Holocaust to the forgotten American Indian or Australian Aboriginal! Sickening; have you seen how those peoples survive and are treated?
There are quite a few Jewish people left in this world (by conversion or other)- they are a religion not a race.

reply to post by bigyin[/url]

The trouble is my friend, that the very word Holocaust, is now widely believed to mean the partial extermination of the european jews by the Nazis.

As other posters have pointed out, if we take your view on things, then there have been holocausts across the world every time armed forces have gone to battle.

For example, the two Gulf wars, according to your view, were holocausts whilst nothing could be further from the truth.

The ethnic cleansing carried out by all the protagonists in the Balklands was little more than mass murder whilst the happenings in Rwanda could be called genocide but by no stretch of the imagination could they be called holocausts.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


Because the natives of those lands are no longer being killed off and are opened to pure 100% equality in the 21st century.

I do not see what point you are making other than a point of view which is only supported by word of mouth, not actual evidence.