find a way to corner him so that he cannot not listen to you
you gotta say:
Look gramps
you're 90 years old and you are a human being on the planet earth, circling around the sun, with a bunch of other floating geometric holograms
composed of atoms. (which are more nothing than something)
Then show himthis
after that, after you get him with all your willpower to check it out, let him know that everything matters. Say ''EVERYTHING MATTERS GRAMPS!!!" in
a real loud, serious, and embellished way. Feel free to repeat this once or twice more in a Will Ferrell-esque way. Then causally say, in an assertive
but soft Gene Wilder in Willy wonka sort of way "and at the very same time nothing matters."
After this soaks in and you see it in his eyes, do a karate kick and shout..
So are we gonna make it to the big one hundo!!!!????
Obviously escalate towards the end of that and put in a good hi five after that.
You could change your grandpa's life with that if you do it a sincere and human to human way. Speak to his subsconscious and transmit the
energy....cheers
I hate him ( I can't wait to forgive him):An open letter to my family, page 1
privacy
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reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 04:16 AM by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by iiinvision
You know, I truly appreciate your advice. I truly do. It is very helpful. However for what it is worth I have tried all that and more. I have tried everything short of slapping him upside the head to get his attention.
Unfortunatly if a person is truly unwilling to listen and truly unwilling to care there is just not much one can do.
It may be hard to believe that there is not a way to get a persons attention but I think I may have found the one guy. You see, he truly does not believe he has ever done a thing wrong. He truly believes that everyone around him is crazy for having such an issue with him.
He truly can not see that he is hurting anybody, and when that is the case I imagine one would naturally blow you off.
If you came up to me and said "hey you standing right here hurts me" I would probably role my eyes and say yeah right. Well he for whatever reason can not see that all the hurtful things he has said and done in the past (The majority of which are not suitable to mention on ATS), are wrong or hurtful.
I hate to use this as an example considering the man just died but look at Michael jackson. in interviews he was asked multiple times about his sleeping in bed with children. Michael seemed to not be able to understand how anyone could even think that inviting children into your bed is wrong or inappropriate. It is like he truly does not see anything wrong with it.
You and I do, sure, but he does not and seemingly can not understand why it is wrong. Same goes for my Grandfather. He just does not and can not see how his behavior has hurt people and still does to this very day.
For that reason I say in my letter that I truly believe he will not understand how he has made me feel until after he has died, and for that reason, in a way, I can not wait for him to die, because I believe that then and only then will he get it.
Then and only then after he one day does get it will I be able to forgive him. I want to so bad, but I just can not until he gets it.
Anyway, sorry for the long reply. For what it is worth your post has inspired me to re examine the situation to see what else I could possibly do to get this mans attention and get him to listen.
Keeping in mind that this is a man who does not believe that emotions should be discussed. keeping in mind that this is a man who certainly has some ... mental issues but would NEVER go seek help because it would involve him sharing his emotions. keeping in mind that a big part of the reason why I doubt he will ever listen is because he knows that I have alot of emotion that I need to let off. Keeping in mind that plus lots more...
Thanks for your reply. I do hope that I do get the opportunity to sit down and work out our issues. If not I will just have to let it go eventually otherwise this stuff, this resentment will gradually eat me alive.
On a side note, I like your avatar. it reminds me of the cover of John Lennon's album "Mind Games"
[edit on 27-6-2009 by gimme_some_truth]
You know, I truly appreciate your advice. I truly do. It is very helpful. However for what it is worth I have tried all that and more. I have tried everything short of slapping him upside the head to get his attention.
Unfortunatly if a person is truly unwilling to listen and truly unwilling to care there is just not much one can do.
It may be hard to believe that there is not a way to get a persons attention but I think I may have found the one guy. You see, he truly does not believe he has ever done a thing wrong. He truly believes that everyone around him is crazy for having such an issue with him.
He truly can not see that he is hurting anybody, and when that is the case I imagine one would naturally blow you off.
If you came up to me and said "hey you standing right here hurts me" I would probably role my eyes and say yeah right. Well he for whatever reason can not see that all the hurtful things he has said and done in the past (The majority of which are not suitable to mention on ATS), are wrong or hurtful.
I hate to use this as an example considering the man just died but look at Michael jackson. in interviews he was asked multiple times about his sleeping in bed with children. Michael seemed to not be able to understand how anyone could even think that inviting children into your bed is wrong or inappropriate. It is like he truly does not see anything wrong with it.
You and I do, sure, but he does not and seemingly can not understand why it is wrong. Same goes for my Grandfather. He just does not and can not see how his behavior has hurt people and still does to this very day.
For that reason I say in my letter that I truly believe he will not understand how he has made me feel until after he has died, and for that reason, in a way, I can not wait for him to die, because I believe that then and only then will he get it.
Then and only then after he one day does get it will I be able to forgive him. I want to so bad, but I just can not until he gets it.
Anyway, sorry for the long reply. For what it is worth your post has inspired me to re examine the situation to see what else I could possibly do to get this mans attention and get him to listen.
Keeping in mind that this is a man who does not believe that emotions should be discussed. keeping in mind that this is a man who certainly has some ... mental issues but would NEVER go seek help because it would involve him sharing his emotions. keeping in mind that a big part of the reason why I doubt he will ever listen is because he knows that I have alot of emotion that I need to let off. Keeping in mind that plus lots more...
Thanks for your reply. I do hope that I do get the opportunity to sit down and work out our issues. If not I will just have to let it go eventually otherwise this stuff, this resentment will gradually eat me alive.
On a side note, I like your avatar. it reminds me of the cover of John Lennon's album "Mind Games"
[edit on 27-6-2009 by gimme_some_truth]
reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 06:03 AM by Kaytagg
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
Maybe your Gandpa is the victim of a different era, where showing emotion makes you "girly," and being macho is the only acceptable lifestyle for men. Maybe he does care for you, he just can't bring himself to express it.
I think some people have the misconception that families have to get along, love each other, help each other, care for each other.. That's simply not the way the world works. There is no law written in stone that says the universe may only work when people who are blood related love each other.
Nothing is stopping you from loving your grandfather, but it is his decision to love you back. If he chooses not to, the most unhealthy thing you can possibly do is try to force him to. This almost sounds like one of those abusive relationships you hear about, where the husband beats and torments his wife, yet she never leaves him.
It is unhealthy to dwell on things you can not change. There is no reason to fret over trying to force somebody else into making the decisions you want them too -- it'll never happen.
He might come around on his own, but if he doesn't, it's time to move on. Time to forget.
Maybe your Gandpa is the victim of a different era, where showing emotion makes you "girly," and being macho is the only acceptable lifestyle for men. Maybe he does care for you, he just can't bring himself to express it.
I think some people have the misconception that families have to get along, love each other, help each other, care for each other.. That's simply not the way the world works. There is no law written in stone that says the universe may only work when people who are blood related love each other.
Nothing is stopping you from loving your grandfather, but it is his decision to love you back. If he chooses not to, the most unhealthy thing you can possibly do is try to force him to. This almost sounds like one of those abusive relationships you hear about, where the husband beats and torments his wife, yet she never leaves him.
It is unhealthy to dwell on things you can not change. There is no reason to fret over trying to force somebody else into making the decisions you want them too -- it'll never happen.
He might come around on his own, but if he doesn't, it's time to move on. Time to forget.
reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 06:14 AM by pause4thought
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
What you have written is very beautiful.
Almost every word you have written is a parable of how the Bible presents the Creator of the universe. I ain't preaching. I have tears in my eyes.
Look back at what you've written & see what I mean. Rejected, Spurned, Offended. Filled with anger. Filled with Love.
The divine solution: do something that is so costly that even the blind will see the love.
Oh the cost.
Oh the joy of reconciliation!
Overcome the anger with sheer, unadulterated love. Make sure it costs. Big time.
Then persist. Persist, persist.
And wait for the response.
Never give up.
What you have written is very beautiful.
Almost every word you have written is a parable of how the Bible presents the Creator of the universe. I ain't preaching. I have tears in my eyes.
Look back at what you've written & see what I mean. Rejected, Spurned, Offended. Filled with anger. Filled with Love.
The divine solution: do something that is so costly that even the blind will see the love.
Oh the cost.
Oh the joy of reconciliation!
Overcome the anger with sheer, unadulterated love. Make sure it costs. Big time.
Then persist. Persist, persist.
And wait for the response.
Never give up.
...
reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 06:46 AM by l_e_cox
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
I hope you wanted all these different opinions of the situation, because that's what you are getting!
You are bound up in a game with your grandpa as old as life itself. In these modern times, many young people aren't around when their grandparents die. They don't see how it happens, the way you are seeing. So you could consider yourself lucky that you are getting to see this up close.
He has decided he wants to die. If he's really been as crusty as you describe him, he probably decided a long time ago. But it looks like now he really wants to do it. Unfortunately for us, when people get into this frame of mind, and it's not just old people who do this, they, essentially, intentionally try to upset the people around them. It's an ancient pattern - it's just how it works.
You've probably seen old people who were very willing to interact with their grandchildren. The interaction with children was a joy for them. It sounds like this man was never that way with you.
If you really want to help him, you might still be able to. But you will have to do it with the idea that you could control him into being a little bit happy. You have to be totally willing to ignore his attempts to put you off or make you feel upset, and to be totally unaffected by them. If you can do this, he might recognize you as someone who understands the truth of his situation, and he might "snap out of it" and talk to you. He would probably say something angry or resentful. If you don't let this upset you, and keep your intention for him to feel a little happiness, a little willingness to communicate, he might start really talking with you. If he did, of course, you would have to be willing to listen to him and understand what he had to say, or you'd lose him again. If he decides to talk to you, it's quite possible that it might be the first time in his adult life that he has decided to really talk to anybody.
If you don't think you are capable of the above, there is another approach. You could just ignore him, like he's ignoring you. The point is to make it clear to him that the little game he is playing with you by rolling up in a ball and going completely out of communication is no longer having the desired effect on you. If this becomes apparent to him, he might just drop it, and decide to start communicating.
If you let him make you feel miserable, you are just playing into his game.
[edit on 27-6-2009 by l_e_cox]
[edit on 27-6-2009 by l_e_cox]
I hope you wanted all these different opinions of the situation, because that's what you are getting!
You are bound up in a game with your grandpa as old as life itself. In these modern times, many young people aren't around when their grandparents die. They don't see how it happens, the way you are seeing. So you could consider yourself lucky that you are getting to see this up close.
He has decided he wants to die. If he's really been as crusty as you describe him, he probably decided a long time ago. But it looks like now he really wants to do it. Unfortunately for us, when people get into this frame of mind, and it's not just old people who do this, they, essentially, intentionally try to upset the people around them. It's an ancient pattern - it's just how it works.
You've probably seen old people who were very willing to interact with their grandchildren. The interaction with children was a joy for them. It sounds like this man was never that way with you.
If you really want to help him, you might still be able to. But you will have to do it with the idea that you could control him into being a little bit happy. You have to be totally willing to ignore his attempts to put you off or make you feel upset, and to be totally unaffected by them. If you can do this, he might recognize you as someone who understands the truth of his situation, and he might "snap out of it" and talk to you. He would probably say something angry or resentful. If you don't let this upset you, and keep your intention for him to feel a little happiness, a little willingness to communicate, he might start really talking with you. If he did, of course, you would have to be willing to listen to him and understand what he had to say, or you'd lose him again. If he decides to talk to you, it's quite possible that it might be the first time in his adult life that he has decided to really talk to anybody.
If you don't think you are capable of the above, there is another approach. You could just ignore him, like he's ignoring you. The point is to make it clear to him that the little game he is playing with you by rolling up in a ball and going completely out of communication is no longer having the desired effect on you. If this becomes apparent to him, he might just drop it, and decide to start communicating.
If you let him make you feel miserable, you are just playing into his game.
[edit on 27-6-2009 by l_e_cox]
[edit on 27-6-2009 by l_e_cox]
reply posted on 27-6-2009 @ 07:09 AM by silo13
reply to post by xsheep
Pure hog wash.
Wherever this opinion came from it needs to one, be re-evaluated, and two, named for what it is ---> opinion, for it’s by far NOT truth.
peace
[edit on 27-6-2009 by silo13]
well here is some truth for you !!!!
No one makes you emotionally upset
and no one makes you happy or sad
Pure hog wash.
Wherever this opinion came from it needs to one, be re-evaluated, and two, named for what it is ---> opinion, for it’s by far NOT truth.
peace
[edit on 27-6-2009 by silo13]
reply posted on 28-6-2009 @ 03:58 AM by iiinvision
Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by xsheep
well here is some truth for you !!!!
No one makes you emotionally upset
and no one makes you happy or sad
Pure hog wash.
Wherever this opinion came from it needs to one, be re-evaluated, and two, named for what it is ---> opinion, for it’s by far NOT truth.
peace
[edit on 27-6-2009 by silo13]
I disagree to a certain degree.
It is true that people have energy that may rub off on you but everything that you experience is all in your head. External stimuli composed of atoms can appear to make you sad or angry or whatever emotion, but the bottom line is is that it's attitude. Sure we can all think of a million things that could happen to where, try as you might, you ''cannot'' succeed. This thought process aides in sewing apathy into the soul. You have to trust in your mind/body/soul, develop patience, learn to focus on things single pointedly. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Many people feel content with things staying the way they are or even not interfering. But I see things like this as opportunities to grow as a person and help another soul grow at the same time.
Not everybody believe in souls, or reincarnation, or anything that a microscope cannot detect. I myself don't necessarily believe in the aforementioned in the way that you think I do, however I believe our essence carries on, past the physical 3 dimensional realm. We are all here for a short time and in this time we are faced with challenges and some of them repeat themselves until we learn from them.
break it down for him in a way he can understand.
Put yourself in his shoes and look back into the past. Try and get into the mindset of a younger version of your grandfather and try and bring that out in him. Im sure he had ideas about the future like we had. Use humor and eventually, with patience and perseverance you will make cracks in the wall.
And please, just forgive him. Do it for Jesus, do it for yourself, do it before all the # we pay attention to on this website becomes reality before we know it. We would all like to hope and believe that there is still a chance to maintain the american dream but sometimes we must feign what ats is all about vanquishing in order to obtain some sort of piece of mind. So do it while we still have the chance if not for compassion itself.
good luck
( Sorry I couldn't resist) reply posted on 23-11-2009 @ 08:52 PM by DreamingsFree
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
A search for "sadness and depression" brought me to your post from June 2009. I hope my response doesn't get lost in the ATS netherlands and that you read this.
My father was your grandfather's age a few years ago. He was born in an era of playing stick ball on dirt streets in the Bronx in the late 1910s and early 20s. He, too, was very private about his past and was a hard-ass, every unemotional (except for scarey anger). He was a WWII vet and rarely talked about it. Thankfully, he was not sexually abusive. He did beat me once with a belt for wearing jeans and looking cheap (yeah, no ****) when I was 18. I was always afraid of provoking his anger.
Two years ago, I went to see my parents for a yearly visit (we lived 5000 miles apart). Dad had lost a great deal of weight and was a "lump" as you described. Up until he turned 90 and got the flu, he used to take walks and mow the lawn and read constantly. After that, however, he started shutting down and would just lay on the couch lost in his own thoughts or sleeping.
Shortly after I arrived, he ended up in the emergency room where we talked to a doctor who was familiar with his medical issues. Dad had leukemia. For whatever reason when he saw the oncologist for the two years, he thought he was just seeing a "blood doctor." We (family) didn't know he was dying. When he realized that, he asked me with tears in his eyes, "is there any way to make it go faster?"
We got him set up with hospice at home. At one point, he was sitting in his butt-worn livingroom chair as his bed was being prepared, and we were alone. He sighed heavily and said to me, "so many regrets . . . SO many regrets." I couldn't get him to talk after that. He was choked up with tears in his eyes. All I could do was say "we've all done stupid things."
Later by a few days when he was on the morphine, I told him everything I needed to say - that I'm so thankful he did well enough to leave my mother and me cared for, that he did hurt me unnecessarily because I was a good kid, that I know I did stupid things, and that I know he loved me even though he never said those words. Even under morphine, he heard my words, because he got tears in his eyes. I repeated that for days, as I stroked his thin hair and kissed his forehead.
He died soon after that. I believe that he and I came to terms because I talked to him even though he couldn't respond to me. Even if he were conscious, he wouldn't have been able to respond. Men from that age were not taught how to feel, much less how to talk about it.
I hope you got a chance to tell your grandfather how you feel. If he has died, then rest assured you are not to blame for anything. None of it is your fault. You're a dear soul to care at all after what he did and how he denied you closure. If he hasn't passed yet and there's no hope of recovering, see about hospice care. They can set him up with meds to keep him comfortable if he's in pain. Emotional pain can be as debilitating as physical pain when it's that bad.
My father didn't realize the pain he'd caused us until he was dying. Ninety years is a long time to abuse people who love you, and the pain of realization must be awful. It doesn't forgive the actions. It means none of it was your fault.
I wish you peace with the knowledge that he can't possibly say he's sorry and that none of it was your fault.
A search for "sadness and depression" brought me to your post from June 2009. I hope my response doesn't get lost in the ATS netherlands and that you read this.
My father was your grandfather's age a few years ago. He was born in an era of playing stick ball on dirt streets in the Bronx in the late 1910s and early 20s. He, too, was very private about his past and was a hard-ass, every unemotional (except for scarey anger). He was a WWII vet and rarely talked about it. Thankfully, he was not sexually abusive. He did beat me once with a belt for wearing jeans and looking cheap (yeah, no ****) when I was 18. I was always afraid of provoking his anger.
Two years ago, I went to see my parents for a yearly visit (we lived 5000 miles apart). Dad had lost a great deal of weight and was a "lump" as you described. Up until he turned 90 and got the flu, he used to take walks and mow the lawn and read constantly. After that, however, he started shutting down and would just lay on the couch lost in his own thoughts or sleeping.
Shortly after I arrived, he ended up in the emergency room where we talked to a doctor who was familiar with his medical issues. Dad had leukemia. For whatever reason when he saw the oncologist for the two years, he thought he was just seeing a "blood doctor." We (family) didn't know he was dying. When he realized that, he asked me with tears in his eyes, "is there any way to make it go faster?"
We got him set up with hospice at home. At one point, he was sitting in his butt-worn livingroom chair as his bed was being prepared, and we were alone. He sighed heavily and said to me, "so many regrets . . . SO many regrets." I couldn't get him to talk after that. He was choked up with tears in his eyes. All I could do was say "we've all done stupid things."
Later by a few days when he was on the morphine, I told him everything I needed to say - that I'm so thankful he did well enough to leave my mother and me cared for, that he did hurt me unnecessarily because I was a good kid, that I know I did stupid things, and that I know he loved me even though he never said those words. Even under morphine, he heard my words, because he got tears in his eyes. I repeated that for days, as I stroked his thin hair and kissed his forehead.
He died soon after that. I believe that he and I came to terms because I talked to him even though he couldn't respond to me. Even if he were conscious, he wouldn't have been able to respond. Men from that age were not taught how to feel, much less how to talk about it.
I hope you got a chance to tell your grandfather how you feel. If he has died, then rest assured you are not to blame for anything. None of it is your fault. You're a dear soul to care at all after what he did and how he denied you closure. If he hasn't passed yet and there's no hope of recovering, see about hospice care. They can set him up with meds to keep him comfortable if he's in pain. Emotional pain can be as debilitating as physical pain when it's that bad.
My father didn't realize the pain he'd caused us until he was dying. Ninety years is a long time to abuse people who love you, and the pain of realization must be awful. It doesn't forgive the actions. It means none of it was your fault.
I wish you peace with the knowledge that he can't possibly say he's sorry and that none of it was your fault.
reply posted on 25-11-2009 @ 04:16 AM by radarloveguy
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
Your grandfather may act like he doesn't care , but maybe he can
finally see that his whole life has been spent doing the wrong thing ,
and now he can't face anybody he's hurt . He may be feeling incredibly guilty for this . His life is almost over ,and he's wasted it , that's
depressing .
Maybe try a family party , around him . Invite as many people as you can . Talk positively about him [this may be difficult] , and have your
guests do the same . Talk about the good times , hand around photos ,
get the great grand kids to get him talking . Worth a try , might take a few tries , but it could well snap him out of it . If he responds , make plans to go on an outing , picnic , shops , whatever , make him plan for the
future , even if it''s only a week ahead .....
Your grandfather may act like he doesn't care , but maybe he can
finally see that his whole life has been spent doing the wrong thing ,
and now he can't face anybody he's hurt . He may be feeling incredibly guilty for this . His life is almost over ,and he's wasted it , that's
depressing .
Maybe try a family party , around him . Invite as many people as you can . Talk positively about him [this may be difficult] , and have your
guests do the same . Talk about the good times , hand around photos ,
get the great grand kids to get him talking . Worth a try , might take a few tries , but it could well snap him out of it . If he responds , make plans to go on an outing , picnic , shops , whatever , make him plan for the
future , even if it''s only a week ahead .....
reply posted on 27-4-2011 @ 10:46 PM by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by DreamingsFree
You know, it took me a long time to read what you wrote and I am not sure you are even here anymore... But I want you to know that I read it.
I did get a chance to talk with him...Things are not quite worked out, like I want... I did not get to tell him everything I want. I hope to tell him everything... And I suppose I will be able to one day, whether he is alive or not...
Thanks for sharing your story. It gave me hope. Just thanks.
You know, it took me a long time to read what you wrote and I am not sure you are even here anymore... But I want you to know that I read it.
I did get a chance to talk with him...Things are not quite worked out, like I want... I did not get to tell him everything I want. I hope to tell him everything... And I suppose I will be able to one day, whether he is alive or not...
Thanks for sharing your story. It gave me hope. Just thanks.
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