Great photo of F-22 breaking the sound barrier

Very nice photo. I would surely love to see this in person, it would be pretty spectacular.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

From what I am reading, what makes the F22 unique regarding supercruise is that it can remain in supercruise for very long periods of time and during normal combat operations due to the fact that the engines are highly efficient or something like that.

If you want to go ahead and redefine the definitions, then everything becomes unique. Which is why the USAF and Lockheeds definition is pointless, because it is a corruption of an existing, well defined term.

Sorry, but to the rest of the world, the F-22 is not the first supercruise capable aircraft.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
If you want to go ahead and redefine the definitions, then everything becomes unique.

I am not redefining anything. I just posted what lockheed wrote.

Sorry, but to the rest of the world, the F-22 is not the first supercruise capable aircraft.

No, but it is the first to supercruise at greater than mach 1.5 for long periods of time during normal combat situations and doing it efficiently at low power which is why it can supercruise during its entire mission.

Nothing I read said the F22 is the first plane to supercruise. It states the F22 is the first FIGHTER to meet all the requirements listed.

Some of you need to learn how to comprehend what you read and not be so sensitive and defensive.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by RichardPrice
If you want to go ahead and redefine the definitions, then everything becomes unique.

I am not redefining anything. I just posted what lockheed wrote.

And the Lockheed quote is a redefinition - thats my point.

No, but it is the first to supercruise at greater than mach 1.5 for long periods of time during normal combat situations and doing it efficiently at low power which is why it can supercruise during its entire mission.

Which is a redefinition of the common term, and thus the discussion becomes pointless if you start doing that.

Nothing I read said the F22 is the first plane to supercruise. It states the F22 is the first FIGHTER to meet all the requirements listed.

And even then it isn't the first to meet those requirements - see the Eurofighter.

Some of you need to learn how to comprehend what you read and not be so sensitive and defensive.

I am comprehending very qell, and this is an age old argument. Lockheed and the USAF have tried to redefine a current term in order to promote the uniqueness of the F-22. Or in other words, they tried marketing spin.

My car can supercruise*.

*Supercruise meaning cruise at 70mph on the M4 Motorway outside of any road works, while being a red coloured car made by Peugeot and producing a MPG efficiency of 33.4 Miles to the Gallon, while Meatloaf plays on the radio.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
I am comprehending very qell

Apparently NOT!

Because you keep making the same lame arguments which is not in question. We know the F22 was not the first plane to achieve supercruise and nobody including Lockheed has said that the F22 was the first plane to achieve supercruise. You are reading WAY to much into everything. Again, you being a little sensitive.

Plus your analogy does not hold water. I more realistic analagy would be like the following:

Ford announces the first car that can reach the speed of 100MPH and they call it carcruise. It can only do this for a very short period, like for 2 blocks, before it runs out of gas and only in a limited configuration.

Then in a couple of years Chevy comes out and says our car can carcruise also, but now it can do it for 60 miles instead of 2 blocks and do it while you use the car normally for everyday use.

Do you get it now Mr. Sensistive? The additional benefits is what makes it unique, not the supercruise itself.

Comprehension is your friend.

reply to post by WhatTheory


If you aren't going to be mature, then you aren't worth discussing anything with.

The fact stands, Lockheed and the USAF redefined the common term to market a list of firsts for the F-22.

Originally posted by RichardPrice
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

The fact stands, Lockheed and the USAF redefined the common term to market a list of firsts for the F-22.

And the sad thing is people buy it. They take what they hear as fact without doing any real research. It's the lazy world we live in.

reply to post by WhatTheory


So what you are saying is that the F-22 is the first fighter in the world to be able to supercruise better than the last one that could supercruise? Well why didn't you say so! That makes it all perfectly acceptable and not USAF/Lockheed spin at all

the gryphon , typhoon and rafale all can supercruise , concord could carry passengers and supercruise faster , and the lightning could do it 50 years ago.

so really the F22 is the first USA aircraft that can supercruise.

makes sense then

edit:

its not even for the first USA aricraft that can super cruise - that belongs to the F-104 , and the F16 CAN clean,

about the F104 - they refitted the A model with the last run S model J79-19 engine - and it tooled along nicely at M1.5 mil and M2.5 burner.....

[edit on 29/6/09 by Harlequin]

Amazing picture. I was at the Pencicola Air Show one time and saw a Blue Angel almost break the sound barrier. It is something I will never forget.

While it's a beautiful picture and the caption does say the Raptor is making a supersonic pass, the cloud doesn't really have much to do with "breaking the sound barrier" (not really a barrier...nothing breaks).

What is seen is called a Prandtl-Glauert Cloud and it occurs at trans-sonic speeds.

Finally, it should be clear that Prandtl-Glauert condensation has nothing to do with "breaking the sound barrier" and is not a Star Trek-like "burst" through Mach one. An aircraft can generate a Prandtl-Glauert condensation cloud without ever exceeding the speed of sound.

Source

This aircraft forum cracks me up.

Colors and agendas are painted so clearly! People literally jump at any tiny and minute opportunity to bash the other side.

We need a new forum called: Patriotism Complex Based Aviation Discussion

Anyways, it is a great photo and props to whoever took it.

A warning to anyone who would be stupid enough to believe every word that drops out of Lockheed's mouth:

Flight Global

reply to post by kilcoo316


Contractors are like car salesmen..... But

Just as stupid to assume guilt before a trial occurs and you have seen any evidence? Is he right? I have no idea but you making assumptions before you have seen any evidence. He could be right, he could be a disgruntled employee as well.

Time will tell. If LockMart did do this they should owe more than 50 million per plane and have to fix the problem as well.

Another source: www.theregister.co.uk...
pogoblog.typepad.com...

[edit on 7/1/09 by FredT]

Originally posted by RichardPrice
And even then it isn't the first to meet those requirements - see the Eurofighter.

What the Typhoon can do supersonically is not in the same class as the F-22. You know that, so semantic aside, the F-22 is still unique in this respect.

reply to post by WestPoint23


what that it can supercruise with a weapons load? nope , first US aircraft to do it? nope


so whats so unique about it?

it can supercruise at M1.5 whilst singing `star spangled banner` , and eat a sloppy joe`s?


see commesnt about lockmarts sales techniques.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by RichardPrice
And even then it isn't the first to meet those requirements - see the Eurofighter.

What the Typhoon can do supersonically is not in the same class as the F-22. You know that, so semantic aside, the F-22 is still unique in this respect.

More marketing crap, thats all it is. Again, the F-22 becomes unique when you start redefining the definitions...

Originally posted by RichardPrice
More marketing crap, thats all it is. Again, the F-22 becomes unique when you start redefining the definitions...

You don't need definitions to know that Mach 1.8 with a 1,300 mile range at 65K, with a full weapons load is significant. With any internal configuration, and getting faster as the mission goes. And that's not from any Lockheed "sales pitch".

The particulars of titles are not really significant, capability is.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
You don't need definitions to know that Mach 1.8 with a 1,300 mile range at 65K, with a full weapons load is significant.

Stop stop.


Are you suggesting the F-22 has a combat range of 1,300 miles at 65K & M1.8?


Just wondering, because current sources would indicate the combat radius is 310+100nm (sub+super)[1], and that the ferry range of the F-22 is 1,700nm, which will be strictly subsonic with drop tanks.


[1] F-22 Lockheed website

playing with words;

given the fuel load has been published @ 18000 lbs internal , the combat `range` would be around 1100 miles , combat radius of around 410>430 miles (sub+super) and 510 miles @ sub; ferry record was set @ 1734 miles (with 2 large external tanks taking fuel to 26000lbs)

so 1100 miles combat range @ sub , 900 at sub + super.

all numbers and math taken from a few sources inc here, and seem to correspond.

[edit on 2/7/09 by Harlequin]