The largest tax increase in American history under the guise of climate change has passed.

You know, I read this thread and I can't help but think to myself that this is a sad day to be a human being. This bill will push forward the development of new technologies and new methods to produce energy. This bill will help propel humans towards a cleaner and more productive technological future. How can that be bad?

As I am reading through this thread it becomes apparent that most of the people who are against this bill are simply worried about money. The shortsightedness of this is amazing to me. If we do not do something towards moving off of fossil fuel dependency, fuel costs are going to rise eventually anyway. Simple supply and demand tells us that as the oil and fossil fuels run out, and they will eventually run out, that the prices of such commodities are going to go up.

So I ask you, would you rather pay now while still being able to afford electricity, albeit a little more expensive? Or should we simply wait for the day where heating oil and other forms of fossil fuels are so expensive that we cannot afford to pay for any of it.

Sure you can think to yourself, "Well fossil fuel is not going to run out while I am alive, so who cares!" It is this exact line of thinking that makes me think of this as a sad day for humans, both present and future.

This bill will directly bring about future technological advances in the energy arena.

This bill is what is needed in order to propel such technological advancement. This bill is what is needed in order to start to loosen the grip on fossil fuels.

Forgive me for not worrying about myself and my money, I am worried about my kids, and their kids. Sometimes its not about yourself. Once all people realize this fact, the world as a whole will be a better place for all of us.

You may now commence flaming me for being an "open minded fool" who considers the bigger picture rather than just the here and now.

xmad

reply to post by xmaddness

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Jprophet420 has voted for you for way above top secret. You have 0 votes left this month.

My household income was cut 66% "due to the recession". Theres food on the table and water in the fridge. I could care less if people lose homes over this, get a cheaper home. It was a hard cutback to make but a destroyed planet is IMPOSSIBLE to deal with. I would rather my kid have air in 50 years than Xbox 360 now. The more Americans that realize this the better. The more people worldwide the better. shortsightedness in management destroys companies. Shortsightedness in global management, you figure it out.

Actually I think your main problem is that your are only seeing the picture as it is shown, no real insight in your post, sounds good on paper and is a goal we as humans eventually want to obtain but this oppressive slave tax is a detriment to humanity, and you sir can't see the "bigger" picture.

reply to post by jprophet420

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It takes sheep to make this scheme work, if you think it will change anything than you are a fool.

reply to post by xmaddness

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Obviously you don't seem to understand what is going on....
This is being done during a time of ECONOMIC CRISIS....When Americans are losing their jobs in the millions. There is also the fact that NONE of the alternative energy sources can supplement oil right now. There is still much to be learnt about alternative energy sources.

Are people worried about money?.... Well...do you even know what it means to be in an ECONOMIC CRISIS?.......

This sort of bill is not going to help anyone....

President Obama has promised that 600,000 jobs will be saved, yet we have been losing 500,000 + jobs every month for several months.

The current administration is only creating cheap labour. They want for Americans to do MANDATORY Community Service WITHOUT PAY = SLAVERY...



[edit on 27-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Necessity is the mother of invention. If one day, the whole world is forced to face a shortage of fossil fuel, then and only then will you see change.

I have children. I am not worried about fossil fuel for them. I am more worried about providing them with food, shelter, clothing, and a chance of higher education. Something that will be much more difficult to do if this bill becomes law.

The bottom line is that we have no effect on Climate Change. So don't put lipstick on this pig and expect me to kiss it.

reply to post by jprophet420

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Shortsighteness?... Do you even know what in the world you are talking about? Do you know that you live in a world that has CARBON based life and that includes you, your child, and all living things in this planet?... Do you know that Earth has had up to 12 times as much atmospheric CO2 as now yet there was plenty of life? not to mention the fact that with more CO2 than at current levels the more greenbiomass on the planet....

A tax on CO2 will do nothing more than give money to rich people, when people like you stop playing Xbox 360 and instead do some research for yourself then you might realize the truth of this bill....

[edit on 27-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by xmaddness

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It ain’t about money, dude. It’s about honesty.

Any technology that competes with big oil or big government, will be confiscated by TPTB.

You may want to read up on Nikola Tesla.

en.wikipedia.org...

well.....at least we got non-stop micheal jackson tributes to quell our anger.. wait "don't stop till you get enough" is playing.. and earlier it was "I'm bad, I'm Bad"... the illumaniti is sending us messages!!!

reply to post by xmaddness

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When you considered the bigger picture, did you stop to consider the amount of people this will harm? Did you stop and think about the poor who will not even be able to afford to cook a meal? Did you think about the cost of food skyrocketing because of shipping costs? Did you think of the amount of Jobs this wil destroy because of excess energy costs tacked on to the bottom line of every business, already stretched to the brink, in America?

This bill will not aid in the development of anything, this is a power grab. This is the gestapo monitoring your power usage.

Alternative tech has already been developed, and stifled by big energy companies getting billions a year in government subsidies.

You really believe that the same government that pays automakers a subsidy to squash every form of tech that would remove income for the State is suddenly going to support the removal of fossil fuels forever?

How much revenue is created by fossil fuels? The government will never let go of that, they just added another tax on top of it.

Shortsightedness indeed, tell it to the people who are going to freeze to death next winter, or tell it to the people that'll start starving to death because they can't afford to eat.

reply to post by xmaddness

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No I just don't like fat cats (like AL Gore) pushing new taxes and restrictions on us to "save the planet" while they themselves spew tons of CO2 with their private airplanes and huge mansions.

I am all for renewable energy but the technology has to work.

Besides where are all these solar plants and wind farms gonna go? I can assure the same environmentalists who pushed for this bill are going to be the exact same people who will block the building of any solar or wind facility because of some spotted fly.

The real truth is that the major proponents of "climate change" are not interested in saving the planet. They are interested in controlling our lives while they concentrate more power and wealth into their hands.

It isn't a big shock that Pelosi, Waxman, Gore and many other politicians are heavily invested into companies that deal with carbon credits or green technology. This is just away to funnel tax dollars into their hands because they can't produce a product that would be in demand on the regular market. So guess what, they create the demand and their profit by ramming it down our throats.

People have to see where this is going. The elites are trying to have us live like many Africans where we have to choose between a light or a refrigerator. They want us cramped in public transportation or crowded planned communities while they fly around the country in private jets and live in giant mansions.

They want total control.

Europe and many other places around the world are getting rid of their cap and tax policies while the US is accepting theirs. What does this tell you? They provide no meaningful benefit except to big corporations and the enacting of these policies is simply government giving themselves more power. These policies are not only quite stuipid in simplest terms, but downright criminal.

I seen someone on the street...laying down, twitching, looked like he was going to die.
I thought first off...he is probably sleeping. I dont believe he is hurt.

after awhile of looking at him, I did see in fact he was bleeding, twitching more, eyes rolling back.
I thought...well, its not my fault...I didnt do it.

Then I considered giving CPR...I mean, chances are, no matter what I do, I wont be able to save it...and if I did it, I would lose time, energy, and potentially stain my pants.

now, if I do nothing, the person will for sure die...however, if I tried like hell to help the person, he may live...or may die...but at least I will know that even though the person dies, I tried my hardest to stop the person from dying.. I might have lost time, energy, and a money trying to help, and if it didnt work, at the very least, I could look at myself in the mirror.

or I could simply let him die in a apathetic way, saving my clothes from staining and having to spend money to get it clean...

decisions decisions.
(is this really a decision btw? seems like a no brainer...no wonder you guys lost. lol)

the party of morals my arse.

reply to post by Sheeper

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if you think that sitting on the internet bitching about policy that the people control makes me a sheep it is you who require the shearing good sir.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

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so youre telling me that you read and understood the original 1500+ page document?

reply to post by SaturnFX

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What sort of nonsense are you babbling?

There are millions of people without homes.

There are more Americans now having to get into food lines than ever before, maybe except the Great Depression but we are getting there.

This bill only gives money to politicians, and the rich since THERE IS NO PROOF CO2 CAUSES THE WARMING CLAIMED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU....

So your rehtorical nonsensical story should be more like the following:

A fat, rich man sees regular Joe walking on the streets, and the fat rich man thinks to himself (humm I might be able to get more money from this guy, let me see if I can lure him to believe I need more money to SAVE THE EARTH)...

Rich fat guy: Mr. Joe, you see, I am so big that my weight is almost keeping the Earth in orbit, but you see, I got more money on my left pocket than on my right pocket, so the Earth's orbit is wobbling a bit, and if i don't get more money on my right pocket to balance myself, the Earth will go into an incontrollable spin, and we all will die"

Regular joe: Wow, really? and how do I know this is true?

Rich fat guy: (Rich fat guy points to some other rich fat guys and says) see, they can back what I am saying, you must trust me, I need this money now or we are all going to die.

Regular joe: But the money I got I was going to use it to buy some food for my children...

Rich fat guy: What is more important that your children can eat, or that the EARTH IS SAVED???

Regular Joe: You are right, here take all my money, and here you can take one leg, and an arm and sell them in the black market to get more money.

Anyway, you sound like "regular joe" on the story above...



[edit on 27-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I wrote a song. To the tune of Twinkle Twinkle.

"When the taxes are increased, everyone wants to not pay.
Even though it saves the world
And supports better things than beforeee...
When the taxes are increased, even for a good reason."

Sorry, I'm no composer. Also can be sang to the tune of the Alphabet.

Edit- Polluting is bad. CO2 needs to be processed by trees to create Oxygen.
You stop cutting down the rainforest and replant what you all cut down.
Then you can go on throwing more of our greedy waste back into the air.

[edit on 6/27/2009 by ravenshadow13]

How exactly do the "people" control the policy and laws being implemented by the current administration?....

President Obama made promises, MOST OF WHICH HE DID NOT KEEP, and yet you want to claim the people control policy, and the laws being implemented?

Zork, use your head. The mere acts of breathing and eating are selfish. In the interest of being selfless, I respectfully request that you stop breathing the same air that the animals need to survive.

Really, this is all about there YOU choose to draw the line. I say we all need to commit mass suicide to save the planet .. who's in??