The largest tax increase in American history under the guise of climate change has passed.

Originally posted by Fullblast
Love how I, as an American, am painted as selfish, because I am intelligent enough to know that man made Global Warming is myth based on bad science.

Do some research. Anthony Watts site was voted best science blog of 2008 and it has more information than most of the uninformed global warming crowd will ever bother to read.

I am ashamed of the corruption in my government.

Well Said!!

Originally posted by Xtinguish

Originally posted by total newbie

Originally posted by Sundancer
People can barely afford their utility bills now. I know people who are wearing sweats and sweaters in their homes in the winter as it stands. Guess it's time to buy a nice indoor coat.

S&F

Just go on welfare and food stamps. That way the govt. pays for it's own tax increase. This is already happening.

Wrong wrong wrong.

That is not the government paying for it. That is some other American working and paying taxes paying for it.

That would be called a distinction without a difference. The welfare rolls now are expanding rapidly.

Originally posted by total newbie

Originally posted by Xtinguish

Originally posted by total newbie

Originally posted by Sundancer
People can barely afford their utility bills now. I know people who are wearing sweats and sweaters in their homes in the winter as it stands. Guess it's time to buy a nice indoor coat.

S&F

Just go on welfare and food stamps. That way the govt. pays for it's own tax increase. This is already happening.

Wrong wrong wrong.

That is not the government paying for it. That is some other American working and paying taxes paying for it.

That would be called a distinction without a difference. The welfare rolls now are expanding rapidly.

So? I don't get the point of the post. I think it makes a big difference to say the government will pay for it, or some other poor soul trying to make a living will. Even so, why would you want to expand it even further? Do you like a welfare state? Is that what you want? You like living off of someone's hard work? How about what I make I keep? How about what you make you keep? How does that sound? Why is that so wrong?

reply to post by Xtinguish


What I am posting is just what WILL be. I don't get any welfare or food stamps, but I would if I could.

So one, two, three, everybody apply for welfare. Whee this is easy!

Originally posted by total newbie
reply to post by Xtinguish

 

What I am posting is just what WILL be. I don't get any welfare or food stamps, but I would if I could.

So one, two, three, everybody apply for welfare. Whee this is easy!

Exactly the problem with the American people.

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
Climate change is real and something has to be done.

There is no proof that 'climate change' is manmade. In fact, most evidence says that it's natural and cyclical.

Now you can join the civilized world again.

I have a comment for this but I can't say it. I'd be banned.

Actually the NWO is a good idea, if USA is full of selfish people who don't care about the world. Then you will submit. I, for one, now welcome our NWO overlords. I noticed that the Americans are so selfish people I want the NWO to control you.

Oh .. that explains it.
I have another comment ... just think Red Foreman ....

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
Ever heard about Kyoto treaty? I bet you haven't.

You lost that bet.

Have you ever read the Kyoto treaty? If you had, then you'd know why America was against it. It's anti-American business while at the same time it turns a blind eye to pollution being dumped into the atmosphere in massive levels by developing nations and by China.

Sounds like you are just spouting talking point phrases without even understanding what they entail.

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
but not be accountable is in their DNA it seems.

I hit the alert button on that. 'in the genes' eh? :shk:
Americans are very diverse in their gene pool.
Your statement is bizzare.

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
there is the usual push back by American's when they have to contribute to something.

You have no clue, do ya'?? I suggest you educate yourself on just how charitable the American people are verses others around the world.

USA Today - Americans give record amount to charity

A Nation of Givers

Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American

And that's just from our own pockets. Our tax money is given out in charity from Washington in the form of foreign aid and grants - such as the tens of billions that is being spent on AIDS research in Africa - and the hundreds of millions that went to the tsunami survivors, etc

US Aid - Foreign Aid

US Foreign Aid Summary

You cannot contribute to the UN

Unfortunately the USA pays something like 1/4 of the UNs bills and we house it in our country. That UN is a cesspool of corruption and is a useless financial black hole.

Originally posted by jkm1864
Obama
Obama
Obama
Obamamessiah

Change You can believe in.....

Hope .... Change


So how is that change working for You?

At this point I hope it passes both houses so I can see all those Obama idiots begging for mercy.... Is this the change that the idiots voted for. Somehow I doubt it is.. The best part about it is seeing the people that voted for skin color finally realize their messiah is a crook...

The funny thing is I work with a lot of blacks that make 80k to 150k a year and they agree with me when I say this idiot is going to start a civil war.... So whine cry all You want nothing has changed except the size of our bumm holes which is getting bigger with all the screwing that weve been getting lately....


Obamamessiah

Obamamessiah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, you are right. we all sem to be screwed. I think there are many who have already figured out that that they voted in a puppet. He is playing for the same team as Bush#1, and Bush #2.--the ruling elite, or the powers that be. There is no other explanation. Obama's policies are not really any different than Bush's. he has broken every campaign promise he made, (what a surprise).

Obama answers to the ruling elite--the PTB, the powers that be. Unfortunately for Americans, he has enough kool-aid drinking lemmings in congress to pass whatever "they" want--the PTB. Follow the logic, is Obama really any different that Bush?? same outcomes--different tactics--the ruining of America by deficit spending. Obama is finishing up what Bush #2 started. it's all part of the "plan" people. Follow the logic behind the decisions. it's all about control, and "they" almost have it all. Banking,business, health, soon -food control. it's coming folks--get ready for it.

I just don't know what to believe on the issues of climate change. When two groups of scientists have such a wide gulf between their opinions it is hard for a lay person to really grasp the truth.

That being said, this bill does seem to benefit the usual suspects and is going to put further strain on Americans trying to heat their homes, and cool them for those in the hot areas. I had to laugh at the post about the vast number of lobbyists that were out pounding the pavement...so much for change or was he talking about only having change left when he is done with us.

As far as all this anti US sentiment goes I do understand it to some degree. It would however be nice if people could open their eyes and see that the average man or woman on the street is no different than anyone else in the world. Don't blame me for the crap these idiots in Washington are doing!

If the US would pull back on the BILLIONS of dollars in aid to foreign nations, many that really do hate us, we could take care of things right here at home! Heaven forbid we do that..we would just be labeled selfish Yanks again. Can't win for loosing in the international community. I bet if Europe ran into another Hitler they would scream and beg for our help...but you hate us...go figure!

reply to post by blind.face


At least someone here knows how the system works! For them who do not know, this bill barely passed the house.. okay fine enough. But to pass the Senate it needs at LEAST a 2/3'ds majority. So it will have a much harder time passing the Senate... tho it is still possible, like you said with a lot of political suicides

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
Hmm? Climate change is real and something has to be done. I applaud to the new law restricting American greenhouse gas emissions. This is very good. Now you can join the civilized world again. Now we can save the Earth together.

There is a big difference between Climate Change and the hoax of Global Warming. There is no proof whatsoever except claims, and flawed computer models that CO2 causes the warming claimed by the Global Warming nuts. I call them nuts now because we have had the last three winters as some of the worse winters in decades, and in some countries in 100 years, and yet you still get people like this Etsiva claiing mankind is to blame, when CO2 is supposed to cause WARMING, and not COOLING.

As for being part of the civilized world because of this tax law which is going to pay rich people... You are showing yourself to be dumber by every statement that you make...

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
To me the idea that this will result in increase of taxes is insane. What about your children and grandchildren? You want them to live in a world of ecological disaster? Complaining about taxes in a case like this is so insanely selfish and short-sighted I wonder how you manage to live withyourself.

Obviously you don't know much about politics, or how the implementation of such laws are paid.... They are paid by taxes from Americans who are having a real bad time.

As to should we worry about our kids, and grandkids?... Yeah, we should worry now that more repressive laws are being passed, and many Americans won't be able to feed their families as well as we used to.

Climate Change will continue happening no matter what you, and your crazy group of Global Warming nuts want to claim.

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
Actually the NWO is a good idea, if USA is full of selfish people who don't care about the world. Then you will submit. I, for one, now welcome our NWO overlords. I noticed that the Americans are so selfish people I want the NWO to control you.

Really? and by what laws and standards should all the nations of the world be ruled?... By yours?.... The only selfish lunatics are people like yourself. This sort of bill is only going to make richer the rich, and the regular people will be poorer...

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
I gotta apply for a job as a some kind of a foreign NWO controller in USA. I will make you pay your carbon emission taxes.

If you ever get to do what you stated above get ready to find yourself, and whomever wants to join you with millions of weapons pointed right at your face, and ready to shoot.



[edit on 27-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Ohhh..I feel quite strongly that this bill will pass.
For one reason alone:

CantorCO2e Environmental Brokerage

CantorCO2e a subsidiary of Cantor, is the world's longest standing environmental brokerage created to serve companies in a carbon constrained economy. CantorCO2e are brokers of carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions allowances and reduction credits under the Kyoto Protocol and EU Emission Trading Scheme legislation. CantorCO2e is also active domestically in the US in markets concerned with NOx, SOx, VOC, PM10, CO, and Global warming issues and brokerage services related to greenhouse gases, renewable energy, and emissions offsets, and other environmental products. www.cantorco2e.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Compliments of our level headed friends of the Federal Reserve!!!!

Bahhhh!!!

Peace...

This is a glorified tax bill that will effect everyone in this country. It won't do a thing for climate change. It won't do a thing for the environment.

The only thing it will do is take money from hard working Americans and line the pockets of the money and power hungry government we have right now.

Too bad more people don't understand that.

Originally posted by Sundancer
People can barely afford their utility bills now. I know people who are wearing sweats and sweaters in their homes in the winter as it stands. Guess it's time to buy a nice indoor coat.

S&F


I already wear sweats and sweaters in the winter...

I have one question:

When we are in the biggest economic downturn of our lifetimes do we really need to be increasing the cost of living in order to feel better about ourselves?

Simple way to think of it and no one can deny these facts.

* The purpose of this bill is to improve the environment.
* This will increase the cost of producing energy
* The more it costs to produce energy the more things are going to cost for the consumer.
* Increased cost in doing business causes businesses to leave the country and move to places where they don't care about the environment, ie Mexico, China, India, etc.
* Companies leaving the country raises unemployment.
* Unemployment causes the economic down turn to continue.

Where is this bill in the best interest of the country? Also remember we are no where near being the worst polluter in the world. That would be the countries getting our Jobs.

So I hope this bill makes you feel better.

"If the US would pull back on the BILLIONS of dollars in aid to foreign nations, many that really do hate us, we could take care of things right here at home! Heaven forbid we do that..we would just be labeled selfish Yanks again. Can't win for loosing in the international community. I bet if Europe ran into another Hitler they would scream and beg for our help...but you hate us...go figure! "

I couldn't agree more. We need that money at home right now.

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen

No, the rest of the world is taking global warming seriously. It is only you selfish Americans who don't care about the future of the world.

Really? is that why there were riots all over the world when there were GREEN taxes put in against oil/gasoline, and other products?...

Last I heard the European Union was thinking about taking those taxes off because the regular people of the world were rioting, and turning to violence because they couldn't pay the new taxes....

Originally posted by Etsivä Romppainen
Ever heard about Kyoto treaty? I bet you haven't. Your country was the one fighting against it.

You are a misinformed and selfish nation. This bill is the best thing you have done in decades.

Now, here you are showing again to be nothing more than ignorant. The Kyoto protocol allows for China, Russia, and India among other countries not only to continue to release CO2, and other GHG, but to increase CO2 emissions as much as they want...

The Russian government, and the Chinese government among others have stated that they will never accept a cap on their emissions...but since there are many Europeans such as yourself who are ignorant, you only blame the U.S....

Didn't you know that China already surpasses the U.S. in GHG emissions?
Not to mention that China has the most polluted air in several cities in all of the world. They have the most polluted rivers, lakes, and ocean fronts, but as always ignorant Europeans such as yourself have to blame the U.S. only...

BTW, I am not saying all Europeans are like you, but people like you are a disgrace to Europe, and the world at large.



[edit on 27-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I am suprised about how many people are shocked with this. I would honestly say we've witnessed more than our fair share of distractions from the Gov't to get these new bills passed.

Keep those new bills rolling, baby. Pretty soon, there won't be anything else to tax, or pass through congress. Then what? NWO? Oh yeah...

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
Its so terrible to contribute to society isn't it. This thread will be mostly rants of American's wanting to be greedy and selfish again and not contribute. Their right to have a car and pollute but not be accountable is in their DNA it seems.

People like you gave in to Hitler. Americans have always been the most giving than any other nation. Both the U.S. government, and the American people have helped dozens of nations, but it seems to be in the dna of many, if not most Europeans to bash, and blame the U.S. for anything, and everything.

Show us proof that CO2 causes WARMING. Flawed computer models are not proof btw, and then you have to explain why the past 3 years we have had all over the world the worse winters, and this winter has lasted longer than normal.

I guess according to most Europeans CO2 causes both, warming, and cooling...

More and more proof from scientists from ALL over the globe are finding that the ongoing Climate Change is normal...

Your overlords even had to change the name of their hoax from Global Warming to Climate Change just to keep the few fools that still believe in this lie believing and cheering.

The climate is ALWAYS chaging. The climate of Earth is NEVER static, and it sure doesn't do whatever some fools want nature to do...

[edit on 27-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by dooper
Well boys and girls, there just may be a bright side to all the Obama/Pelosi/Reid activity.

It's got to get better.

Because it sure as hell can't get much worse!

I like you're optimism. =] But no things just went from bad to worse and they will more than likely continue to get even more worse. The small fish family owned businesses that won't be able to afford this tax will surely go bankrupt or get eaten up by bigger fish companies right before they do. CORPORATE TAKE OVER TAX Anyone ?

reply to post by longstalker


For anyone who has read the Report from Iron Mountain this is nothing new.

The report, later done as a book, was largely discredited as a hoax.

I believe that it was a real report, discredited, because the politicians were terrified that their game would be caught onto.

"Climate change" is one of the many ways that this report lays out how the Government can manipulate the mass populace into giving up their cash.

This is called sheering the sheeple, a game they like to do very much.

Harry Houdini found out that every single level of Government was infiltrated charlatans and financial predators, including the White House.

Is it any wonder that this law would be enacted, by making you terrified you did something to our environment, now they can guilt you into paying to fix the problem, by plausible "facts" and smog you can see, they can prey on your well meaning intentions to do the right thing.


[edit on 27-6-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]