Bush Hands Million-Dollar Public Land to Mining Company for $875

Yep, that's right...eight hundred seventy five. Nice to know that Dubya is taking care of us, isn't it? Can anyone say "political favors"? I'm sure he or his associates will make some money from this, somehow.

Last month the Bush administration handed a multinational mining company 155 acres of federally owned, prime mountaintop real estate near a Colorado ski resort. The price? Just $5 an acre (a total of $875), in an area where 1/10 of an acre fetches as much as $100,000.

The sweetheart giveaway sailed through under a 132-year-old federal law that allows mining companies to purchase unrestricted patents on public land, and then use the land for their own profit -- by mining it for silver, gold or other minerals or even by developing it into luxury condominiums and getaway homes.

The 1872 Mining Law, which has never been updated to reflect 21st century real estate values, has enabled mining companies to extract more than $245 billion in metals and minerals from public lands without paying a single subsidy to taxpayers since the statute went into effect 132 years ago. It currently applies to more than 270 million acres of public lands in the U.S., or "2/3 of the land the federal government holds in trust for all
Americans."

More...

Seems to me, IMHO, that besides the continued bashing of Bush, that you as an American citizen, with the right to vote and the ability to write letters to your state Congressmen and Senators need to address those who have the power to change

...a 132-year-old federal law...

Correct?

*edited* for grammar corrections.


seekerof

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Seekerof]

That's not the point. I have no idea how many of these old laws are in effect. To consciously exploit them is wrong. He should be ashamed. Besides, that whole, "You have the power to change the gov't" thing is a lie.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Satyr]

The Mount Emmons patent applications were filed in 1992 by Amax, Inc. In 1994, Congress imposed a moratorium on mining patents, but grandfathered some existing applications, including those at Mount Emmons. Phelps Dodge Corp. assumed ownership of the applications in 1999 upon its merger with Cyprus Amax Minerals Co.

www.coloradomining.org...

Hmm... they are allowing this to be grandfathered even though it's was filed more than a decade ago by another company. I don't know, it sounds like it should be contested but I don't know if it can be.

Originally posted by Satyr
That's not the point. I have no idea how many of these old laws are in effect. To consciously exploit them is wrong. He should be ashamed.

Besides, that whole, "You have the power to change the gov't" thing is a lie.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Satyr]

You're right, GW should be ashamed. So should Clinton, who in his eight years undoubtedly allowed similar such laws to be exploited. Seekerof is right. You are right too -- the power is a lie if noone acts on it to effect change.

Originally posted by titian
You are right too -- the power is a lie if noone acts on it to effect change.

The point is, our own president shouldn't be trying to dupe us. And if he does, should he be allowed to get away with it, just because some old loophole allows him to? If that's the case, then I don't think we should be "represented" by such shady characters.

OK. If the moratorium was passed in 1994 why has nothing changed in 10 years? It's not just one person here -- this is just the latest example. I'm not some Republican defender either -- I'm very much a disgruntled Republican at this point. But, to blame the current president without considering what past presidents allowed to happen under archaic laws like this is ignorant.

I don't blame the president. I blame the entire corrupt POS gov't system, and all the bastards who made it that way. The politicians are just those who exploit the system. You can't trust them to fix exploits they know they can use. That's like expecting a used car salesman to tell you everything that's wrong with the car he's selling you.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Satyr]

as quoted by Satyr
I don't blame the president. I blame the entire corrupt POS gov't system....

Your contradicting yourself Saytr....because in fact, you do blame Bush...hence this thread and hence the tone of your initial comments:

Yep, that's right...eight hundred seventy five. Nice to know that Dubya is taking care of us, isn't it?

I will agree with your secondary comment I quoted above. The point still remains, if your not making an attempt to change our current aged and outdated laws by whatever means are available to you to do so, then IMHO, there is no need to bemoan them and who utilizes them to their or anothers benefit.

Not mean to flame you Satyr, so please don't take it that way.



seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof

as quoted by Satyr
I don't blame the president. I blame the entire corrupt POS gov't system....

Your contradicting yourself Saytr....because in fact, you do blame Bush...hence this thread and hence the tone of your initial comments:

I would say the same about anyone who does such a thing. How is that blaming him? I merely pointed out that he doesn't appear to be doing things to benefit the US. He doesn't appear to be doing things in our best interest. I could say that you sure are doing a great job modding here, and it would be the same thing. Am I blaming you? I don't think so. It's the same kind of comment. But anyway, since the president is included in "the entire corrupt POS gov't system", I suppose I am partially contradicting myself. However, nothing I've stated shows any evidence that I believe Bush is 100% to blame. Is that what you're trying to pin on me?
You want to call me a Bush basher? Go right ahead! I bash all politicians, and anyone who wants to be one. I hate them all. Is that ok with you? BTW, this is the "Politics & Scandals" forum, right? No matter whose fault, this is a scandal.

The point still remains, if your not making an attempt to change our current aged and outdated laws by whatever means are available to you to do so, then IMHO, there is no need to bemoan them and who utilizes them to their or anothers benefit.

It's not my job. I have my own life, and my own job. My job doesn't include representing the citizens of the US. Nor does it include doing things that effect the US as a whole. I don't have time to watch every crooked politician to make sure they're not robbing us blind. It takes another politician to do that (apparently), and unfortunately, they're also robbing us blind.


[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Satyr]

Let me state this first Satyr since you, in your blinded "I question your authority" way, failed to grasp, k:

Not mean to flame you Satyr, so please don't take it that way.

Again, your 'blame' is misplaced:
The federal law that you are bemoaning is a still standing 132 year old law. Your belief in this current presidents being the 'blame', as indicated by the response given in this thread, appear to be merely subjective, eh? In the 132 years of this law, how many presidents have abused it? Actually, how many presidents have abused their powers period?

Your right to blame is yours and yours alone. I will respect that, as others have within this thread. All we have stated is that what this is all basically adding up to is a person complaining over spilled milk. Contact your state Congressmen or Senators and tell them who you feel is the blame and that they need to rectify the situation. You don't fix problems from the top down, it is corrected from the bottom up.



seekerof

Deaf ears and blind eyes, you have...just like the gov't. I'm sure they're glad they have good men like you, defending them tooth and nail.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Satyr]

It is funny how the mining law always works for the big companies, but never for the small miners like me. Everytime I want to claim something it is reserved from being claimable for one reason or another. This sort of thing always prompts folks to cry for the law to be upgraded, but then that would totally wipeout the small guys that recieve a little help. This law was written to help out the little guy and is being abused by mega mining corporations.

The law was written to allow individual citizens to explore for and develop the mineral resources of a rapidly expanding nation. Recently however humongous mining conglomerates have travelled the American west and bought up claims. Most claims are not "Patented" as were the claims in the article. That is most claims only allow a person to work on the land and extract the mineral deposits. When the minerals are gone, so is the claim. To get a claim one must prove that a prudent man cound expect to make a living on extraction of the minerals located there. The purchase of patented claims and then developing them is a scam that totally degrades the good that the mining law is capable of doing. During the Great Depression millions of men, women, and children earned their daily bread in small mining camps and claims across the American West. I am proof that the small miner and prospector is not dead and gone. Thousands of us daily go out in search of a small deposit that we can work to earn a living in a dignified and respectable manner.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Seems to me, IMHO, that besides the continued bashing of Bush, that you as an American citizen, with the right to vote and the ability to write letters to your state Congressmen and Senators need to address those who have the power to change

...a 132-year-old federal law...

Well this law has been addressed by congress many many times. Enviromentalists and congressmen and many others have been fighting it for years. Just search for anti 1872 mining law and see how many sites pop up.

I agree that it is a shame to even use such a law. It is obviously to me just a ploy to bloster support for the bush campaign. Go after the guys with the money is his way. What better way to get them on your side than a giveaway like this.

Heres one website where you can mail an empty bottle of water to your congressman of choice with the lable water is more precious than gold. Many such sites exist.
Heres links to write or email your congressman and representitives also. I urge everyone to do so if you think this law is a sham like I do
Heres a few cons of the law also.

And if you have a politically centered post
with an issue like this, include these web address so others on this site will have a voice instead of arguing pointlessly.

www.house.gov...
www.nwyc.com...
www.purewater.org...

Public land is sold to mining companies for less than $5 per acre.
Agencies are forced to permit mines despite the worst ecological consequences.
No provisions are made for reclamation or cleanup.
Hard rock mining has been exempted from many laws protecting the environment.
No royalties are paid to taxpayers for minerals mined from public lands

[Edited on 8-5-2004 by Hoppinmad1]

[Edited on 8-5-2004 by Hoppinmad1]

I don't see anything wrong with this, it is hard enough to make a profit mining the last thing that needs to be done is to tax mining companies to death with land purchases and taxes and so forth.

Small family owned and opperated mines (the ones like my Grandpa and Dad owned) have already been ran out of the business by the burdensome prices paid to the federal government for claim patenting and mineral rights.

This is just another example of typical people who know nothing of current economic situations.

Goingrinder is either in a rare area with high grade ores or is a dreamer who has never had any experience in the type of mining he is talking about.

Originally posted by FreeMason
I don't see anything wrong with this, it is hard enough to make a profit mining the last thing that needs to be done is to tax mining companies to death with land purchases and taxes and so forth.

Small family owned and opperated mines (the ones like my Grandpa and Dad owned) have already been ran out of the business by the burdensome prices paid to the federal government for claim patenting and mineral rights.

This is just another example of typical people who know nothing of current economic situations.

Goingrinder is either in a rare area with high grade ores or is a dreamer who has never had any experience in the type of mining he is talking about.

I believe you are the one here without experience. Working for a mining company and prospecting for minerals to claim are two entirely different things, but you are right in that it is the high grade materials which interest the one man operation. I will be looking for some land to claim for myself in the Four Peaks area this weekend. This law was not written to benefit the large multinational mining conglomerates and is being abused by them, but it also benefits thousands of individual claim holders with families who are trying it eke out a living on the land in the manner of their forefathers. Ignorant people who have no interest in or knowledge of what the law entails or who it affects sticking their noses into something that does not concern them are going to stab me in the back along with many others who are trying to make an HONEST living. THIS LAW GIVES NOBODY THE LAND! YOU ARE ONLY ENTITLED TO THE MINERALS ON IT. The large mining concerns were given SPECIAL TREATMENT BEYOND THE 1872 MINING LAW. IT IS ONLY THE LARGE MINING CONCERNS WHO CAN PAY FOR RESULTS WITH POLITICAL DONATIONS WHO GET THIS KIND OF SWEET DEAL WITH OR WITHOUT THE 1872 LAW.

Ulysses S Grant is the one you want to take this up with not George Bush, but you can blame the republicans because thats what Grant was - of course one must ask how many democratic administrations have been in office since then?

You guys are digging deep and getting desperate if your quoting 132 year old mining law to criticize Bush, LMAO because I can't take this seriously at all.

You fail to see the point. The point is not who made the law...it's who's using it to their advantage. Big favors like that aren't done by politicians for nothing. It's obviously a scandal.