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Helicopter shooting innocent?

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posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:09 AM
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maybe my opinion is based in the fact that im not a soldier, i didnt have any military trainning...

to answer your question...i really dont know what i would do....maybe kill the bastard.....dont know!





posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:09 AM
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It looked like they were ditching weapons to me.
Not loading them.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by Joe Cat
maybe my opinion is based in the fact that im not a soldier, i didnt have any military trainning...

to answer your question...i really dont know what i would do....maybe kill the bastard.....dont know!



Yet you are able to condemn them for doing their job in a war?

This is what war is all about, killing your enemy without getting yourself killed.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
It looked like they were ditching weapons to me.
Not loading them.


Or, placing the weapons for someone else to use.... endless possiblities aint there really when you think about it



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Stuey1221

Originally posted by AceOfBase
It looked like they were ditching weapons to me.
Not loading them.


Or, placing the weapons for someone else to use.... endless possiblities aint there really when you think about it


Exactly what I was thinking. Assuming they weren't going to use the weapons themselves. I believe the pilots made the right decision. Wether or not they were going to use the weapons themselves or were storing them, I don't really think it matters. If they were contributing to the opposing side of the war, they deserve to be shot at.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:16 AM
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ppl some times dont do their jobs right.....
once again, i didnt question the 2 first kill, just questioned the need to shoot a wounded man!
that's all folks!



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:18 AM
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Totally true, i guess we'll never really find out what they were doing now thought not like we can ask them
ahh war, such fun



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by Joe Cat
ppl some times dont do their jobs right.....
once again, i didnt question the 2 first kill, just questioned the need to shoot a wounded man!
that's all folks!


So who, in this case, did not do their job right?

The Iraqis who got caught?

The Americans who did the shooting?



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:22 AM
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Great thread. Plus, i just thought, who's to say they didn't have
more RPG's/launchers in the back of the TRUCK. Just think if it was
a car2car meeting maybe 6-8 RPG's in the boot/trunk... but
truck2car, they could have a huge stash in that truck. Looked
like at least a 4ton tray to me. Mercedes 1400 series.
S.

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by sanctum]



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Just my .2 cents from watching the video. Even tho the gunner was ordered to "Hit Em"... watch the video. The gunner aims at the drivers side of the pick up truck. Look very closely. There is a heat signature in the drivers seat. To me.. it certainly looks like the gunner was attempting to take THAT person out. Now I don't know if any of you have fired a 30mm chain gun, and I personally have not, but I have seen one fired. They aren't the most accurate of weapons as far as guns are concerned. More like a scatter effect happens. We never see the "after" effects of the final strike... so who knows if the guy wounded crawling thru the field was even struck again. 30mm is a big round. There was alot of "kick up" from the bullets striking the pick up truck and the ground. I would have liked to have seen a little more after the pick up hit. Anyone have a longer version then the 55meg mpeg?


Derek



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by sanctum
Great thread. Plus, i just thought, who's to say they didn't have
more RPG's/launchers in the back of the TRUCK. Just think if it was
a car2car meeting maybe 6-8 RPG's in the boot/trunk... but
truck2car, they could have a huge stash in that truck. Looked
like at least a 4ton tray to me.
S.


Could also be why the commander (or whatever the guy ordering the pilot's name is) ordered the pilot to shoot and destroy the cars/truck if you listen to it



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Joe Cat
ppl some times dont do their jobs right.....
once again, i didnt question the 2 first kill, just questioned the need to shoot a wounded man!
that's all folks!


Joe Cat, no dis' but either way you look at it, the 'wounded man' would
have been way beyond treating. I'm not going into details, but if watch
closely you will know what i mean. I don't think they were going call in
medi-vac, as the vid' ends before the area was secured.
S.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by sanctum

Originally posted by Joe Cat
ppl some times dont do their jobs right.....
once again, i didnt question the 2 first kill, just questioned the need to shoot a wounded man!
that's all folks!


Joe Cat, no dis' but either way you look at it, the 'wounded man' would
have been way beyond treating. I'm not going into details, but if watch
closely you will know what i mean. I don't think they were going call in
medi-vac, as the vid' ends before the area was secured.
S.


The way he was rolling around was more or less showing you that he wasn't going to last much longer, taking his last few breaths as it were before the pilot put him outta his misery as it were



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:46 AM
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Lot of misrepresentations and assumptions. Professional analysis is this.

Target one was in the open, engaged and terminated.
Target three scrambles for cover behind vehicle two.
Target two was attempting to pull something out from under vehicle 3 in a hasty manner after engagement of target one. The reasoning can be that he was reaching for weapons.
Target two was engaged and terminated.
Target three is then searched for target assesment.
Target three is behind cover of vehicle, vehicle engaged and vehicle two destroyed.
Target three moves in the prone position towards vehicle one, vehicle one is then authorized for engagement.
Vehicle one, and summarily target three are engaged and destroyed.


The weapon is a 30mm, the round is 8" in length, not the bullet. The round is the cylindrical "casing" with powder, primer and bullet (or projectile) intact on the item. Casing is the spent cartridge of the original round, commonly referred to as "brass". Bullet or projectile is the little pointy thing that comes out after you hear the bang. The bullet on that 30mm is m289 HEDP, the length of the physical bullet is only about 3-4 inches.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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I live in a rural/farm area in Oz and have a constant rat and mice
problem in my sheds. I'd love a Gatling gun...
'Blow them meeces to pieces' and probably my brothers
tractor at the same time.

S.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 09:50 AM
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.E3.

Thats generally what I was saying in the final stage. The gunner engaged Vehicle 1 (the pick up) not the man on the ground. If the wounded man caught a round or two... well.... se la vi.


Derek


[Edited on 6-5-2004 by DerekJR321]



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by .E3.
Lot of misrepresentations and assumptions. Professional analysis is this.

Target one was in the open, engaged and terminated.
Target three scrambles for cover behind vehicle two.
Target two was attempting to pull something out from under vehicle 3 in a hasty manner after engagement of target one. The reasoning can be that he was reaching for weapons.
Target two was engaged and terminated.
Target three is then searched for target assesment.
Target three is behind cover of vehicle, vehicle engaged and vehicle two destroyed.
Target three moves in the prone position towards vehicle one, vehicle one is then authorized for engagement.
Vehicle one, and summarily target three are engaged and destroyed.


The weapon is a 30mm, the round is 8" in length, not the bullet. The round is the cylindrical "casing" with powder, primer and bullet (or projectile) intact on the item. Casing is the spent cartridge of the original round, commonly referred to as "brass". Bullet or projectile is the little pointy thing that comes out after you hear the bang. The bullet on that 30mm is m289 HEDP, the length of the physical bullet is only about 3-4 inches.


YAY i was right about the bullet size (inc shell) finally i've gotten something right, but the actual bullet being 3/4" is still gonna pardon the language # you up royally aint it



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 10:11 AM
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If this is not the whole video this debate will never end.

After the 1st shooting the chopper turns back to the left, and the individual it focuses on seems to be pulling something, material or paper, I can't tell. One thing he isn't doing is diving for cover, and this is just a couple of seconds after he has seen his colleague pummelled in a barage of gun fire, strange behaviour. When the camera pans to the right, they take out the large truck which one individual is hiding behind, he rolls out, obviously wounded, we cannot tell the extent of his wounds. At this point a heat signature is clearly seen in the smaller truck (Ute), it is this individual that the pilot was aiming for, the wounded person just happened to have rolled into the line of fire.

There is absolutely no evidence within this video which shows these individuals to be terrorists, but I do wonder why the 2nd individual shot at did not dive for cover, what was he trying to get at. At first I thought they were looking in the engine of another truck, just can't tell.

If that individual in the small truck had not been there, I tend to believe the wounded person would still have been finished off.

The Geneva convention was brought into existence due to atrocities suffered in earlier conflicts, it was not signed by all, and means very little to those nations that did sign it.

War is War, No Rules, If you want to win, you do what ever it takes.

And that goes for any country.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 10:21 AM
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From the Geneva Concvention:

Chapter II. Wounded and Sick

Art. 12. Members of the armed forces and other persons mentioned in the following Article, who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.

They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict in whose power they may be, without any adverse distinction founded on sex, race, nationality, religion, political opinions, or any other similar criteria. Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated, subjected to torture or to biological experiments; they shall not wilfully be left without medical assistance and care, nor shall conditions exposing them to contagion or infection be created.

Only urgent medical reasons will authorize priority in the order of treatment to be administered.

Women shall be treated with all consideration due to their sex. The Party to the conflict which is compelled to abandon wounded or sick to the enemy shall, as far as military considerations permit, leave with them a part of its medical personnel and material to assist in their care.

Art. 13. The present Convention shall apply to the wounded and sick belonging to the following categories:

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces. (2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. (3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a Government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power. (4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civil members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany. (5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions in international law. (6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy, spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

Art. 14. Subject to the provisions of Article 12, the wounded and sick of a belligerent who fall into enemy hands shall be prisoners of war, and the provisions of international law concerning prisoners of war shall apply to them.

Art. 15. At all times, and particularly after an engagement, Parties to the conflict shall, without delay, take all possible measures to search for and collect the wounded and sick, to protect them against pillage and ill-treatment, to ensure their adequate care, and to search for the dead and prevent their being despoiled.

Whenever circumstances permit, an armistice or a suspension of fire shall be arranged, or local arrangements made, to permit the removal, exchange and transport of the wounded left on the battlefield.

Likewise, local arrangements may be concluded between Parties to the conflict for the removal or exchange of wounded and sick from a besieged or encircled area, and for the passage of medical and religious personnel and equipment on their way to that area.

Art. 16. Parties to the conflict shall record as soon as possible, in respect of each wounded, sick or dead person of the adverse Party falling into their hands, any particulars which may assist in his identification. These records should if possible include: (a) designation of the Power on which he depends; (b) army, regimental, personal or serial number; (c) surname; (d) first name or names; (e) date of birth; (f) any other particulars shown on his identity card or disc; (g) date and place of capture or death; (h) particulars concerning wounds or illness, or cause of death.


More Here:

More

IF Iraq was part of the Geneva Convention, it should apply to them. If not, then I believe those guys were fair game.

Just my opinion.



posted on May, 6 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Koka
If this is not the whole video this debate will never end.


"There is absolutely no evidence within this video which shows these individuals to be terrorists."

Koka, you really think a person(s) hiding a RPG in a field, in the middle
of the night, has no agenda.?
S.




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