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US withdrawal from Iraqi cities a carefully crafted ploy?

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posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:29 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 

Nobody believed the Bush WMD lie, except the American public.

But none of you guys here have yet told me why America REALLY invaded Iraq, and what has been achieved that could even remotely be regarded as a victory.

To me it looks like another stupid immoral American military adventure doomed to ultimate failure.




posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by Silver Shadow
Just like pulling out of Vietnam was a very cunning ruse to defeat world Communism.
Or maybe, America has been badly beaten on the battlefield just one more time..


Yup Australia has blood on their hands in that war to.
Another loss for Australia again....

Oh Wait you helped loose Vietnam to


So please stop slinging your version of history. nobody is buying it.

Oh My
Military history of Australia during the Vietnam War

Australia's military involvement

Australia, as an ally of the United States and with obligations under the SEATO and ANZUS Pacts, sent ground troops to Vietnam and contributed material to the war effort. As a result, in late 1964 the Australian government controversially re-introduced conscription for compulsory military service by eligible males aged 18-25.

Australian Advisors, 1962–1972




Look stop embarrassing yourself and insulting your own country I have family and friends who are Australian and you're insulting their wonderful heritage by being a horribly ignorant representative!



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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I have no real opinion about Obama, good or bad ...........

But, if he can quickly end the war in Iraq, and bring the long suffering American military guys back home, that has to be a very good thing for everyone involved in this mess.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by Silver Shadow

Nobody believed the Bush WMD lie, except the American public.

But none of you guys here have yet told me why America REALLY invaded Iraq, and what has been achieved that could even remotely be regarded as a victory.
To me it looks like another stupid immoral American military adventure doomed to ultimate failure.


I'm part of that public. I never "Believed it" If you really want to know whats going on click the link down below in my signature and read. I only hope your attention span is long enough!



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Yes we sure learned something from Vietnam.

Never again to get sucked into Americas dirty little immoral wars.
And for forty years we have kept completely out of all your wars, and will continue to do so.

America is now a world pariah, hated by all the world as an outlaw terrorist nation. All your former allies, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and Britain have deserted you..

Believe me, when I tell you, when Obama declares martial law, and your own military turn on American citizens, no other country is coming to help either you or your totally corrupt Government..



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Not all Americans believed the giant WMD lie,.

AS I remember, a poll taken at the time of the invasion of Iraq came up with 85% of Americans fully supporting Bush in his aim of ridding Iraq of the non existent WMD.

Every intelligence agency in the world, including the CIA knew it was total bull#. And so it seems did maybe up to 15 % of Americans.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by Silver Shadow
 


OK so this conversation ends now. I've offered you a chance to learn about the "BIGGER" picture.

BUT...

You seem to want to go on and on about what you "Think" has happened.




Down here to the right.... Click it I dare you.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by Silver Shadow

But, if he can quickly end the war in Iraq, and bring the long suffering American military guys back home, that has to be a very good thing for everyone involved in this mess.


My son just came back from Iraq.... So please be quiet.
If you haven't been there you have nothing to say. He's fine. It was a very quiet location where he was.

Now he is in Greece.


[edit on 27-6-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 

Yes you are quite correct Slayer,

The Iran situation is a lot more complex than many realise. There is oil, and also Iran has set up a THIRD free oil market in total defiance of the US domination of the global oil market.

Crude oil is only bough and sold in three places on the entire planet.

London, and New York, trade STRICTLY in US dollars only.
In now recently in Iran, oil can now be bought and sold for any currency. This hugely undermines the US dollar, and the US simply cannot tolerate that.

BUT Iran has powerful friends in Russia and China, and probably also has nukes. Otherwise America would have bombed Iran years ago as the completely mad Cheney and Bush really wanted to do.

But all that has very little to do with the topic in this thread..... Iraq.

Except that if Iran is attacked, the US military in the Gulf and in Iraq will be dead meat. It will completely totally destroy about half of Americas total military. A huge final defeat that will cripple America.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by Silver Shadow


BUT Iran has powerful friends in Russia and China, and probably also has nukes.

Except that if Iran is attacked, the US military in the Gulf and in Iraq will be dead meat. It will completely totally destroy about half of Americas total military. A huge final defeat that will cripple America.


If Russia wanted to try that they would have done it a long time ago when they were a real power back in the USSR days. China has too much invested in the US they would loose all of that. Not only that but Contrary to "Pop Culture " Beliefs the US and EU are still the big dogs. Who do you think is the biggest investor in China is? And please don't give me that garbage about China being the new economic power




I even wrote a thread on topic Here I understand all too well. No need to preach to the choir.

Most of what the US does produce are higher end higher technology that the average consumer would not see or is even aware of they would not find them on the shelves at Walmart. Heres the kicker they are not all defense related either.
Source

World’s largest manufacturer
Published 6/23/09
Filed under: Miscellaneous, Politics

What country is the world’s largest manufacturer by a huge margin? If you have a kid, you would think it must be China — I don’t know the last time I saw I toy (or anything else, really) that wasn’t made there.

Wrong.

Accounting for more than 20% of the world’s total manufacturing output is the United States.

Japan is a distant second at just over 13%. Then China (12%), and Germany (8.2%). Then, well, everyone else. (Data come from the Dept. of Labor and the United Nations.)


Revenue Leaders by Nation
Country/Province Number of Companies Revenue Total (Millions) Average Company Revenue Growth (%)*
United States 290 $5,386,377 10.50
Japan 233 $3,624,074 6.74
Germany 40 $1,269,963 11.97
France 48 $1,103,959 4.23
United Kingdom 36 $882,521 17.30
China 36 $606,892 19.74
Netherlands 13 $599,939 7.97
South Korea 37 $574,252 27.46
Switzerland 21 $364,031 2.90
Italy 15 $356,603 5.75
Russia 8 $338,870 32.37
Canada 27 $335,500 24.20
Taiwan 29 $328,564 5.47
India 12 $206,903 48.20
Finland 16 $189,505 0.56
Brazil 10 $184,523 23.04
Sweden 14 $161,619 6.29
Spain 6 $149,468 7.73
Luxembourg 3 $145,569 14.33
Australia 12 $143,580 38.52
*Manufacturers that did not appear on the 2008 IW 1000 list were not included in revenue growth averages.


[edit on 27-6-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 05:40 AM
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Cut it anyway you like Slayer.

America is financially bankrupt.
It now has to borrow (or print) three billion every day just to keep operating.
California going bankrupt is the tip of the iceberg. The whole nation is broke.

America produces nothing of any real value, the manufacturing industry is dead, America is a net importer of just about every necessity of life.

America is morally bankrupt. Your entire political, financial, and justice system is rotten to the very core. America as a nation no longer have any friends or allies you can depend upon. As a nation you have double crossed, threatened, and cheated every friend you once had.

Your military is worn out and broken, corrupt, and very poorly led.
Suicides and rapes in the military are rising steeply. Morale in the military is at an all time low. Obama is thinking about conscription.

America is now so mired in greed, vice and corruption, and is about to turn upon itself in a very vicious and violent revolution.

Basically there is no way out of this mess you have brought upon yourselves.

If you want to know who your real enemy is, look in the mirror.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by Silver Shadow
 


Silver you just like regurgitating and continue your pop culture view of the US. The fact is, like it or not that we ARE the Big Dog!

Tough for you.

Corrupt?

Yeah maybe.

Can you do anything about it?

No!

So you wine and complain over the net.

Yeah I know whats wrong with the US. I hear it all day everyday. You seem to be very preoccupied with the US. Almost like some sort of perverse obsession.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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Big dog ???

Big in what way ?

Only really big thing about America is your debt.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by Silver Shadow
 


Look if you're trying to shame me about being an American or embarrass me over our debt don't bother trying.

Anything else?



[edit on 27-6-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 06:32 AM
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Not really.

Just realize that all the strife, suffering, violence and trouble that is soon coming upon America will all be created by Americans.

You will have done it all to yourselves.

The rest of us foreigners can just sit back in absolute awe, and watch America very violently self destruct.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by Silver Shadow
 



Here is something I think you will find very interesting. It's from a DEBATE between a Britt and a Canadian about the US it's from our very own debate board here at ATS.

Enjoy



The US may have its faults (namely VietNam and Iraq), but these are far outweighed by its positive contribution to the world. People forget the good acts the USA does (such as charitable contributions, disaster relief etc) because they have become complacent and come to expect it.

Socratic questions

1. How can we reconcile differences in moral opinions between different countries?
2. Do you honestly think China would make a more moral leader than the USA?
3. Do you think the USA has been a good leader, in historical terms?
4. Do you think that the USA was right or wrong to intervene in Iraq to protect the human rights of Iraqis?
5. Who decides the remit of the world leader? Who decides the “job description” of world leader?

Soulslayer’s first : Poleconomy

The USA has presided over the biggest increase in wealth the world has ever seen. Take a look at this graph to see how the past 50 years compare to the previous 1950 years!
upload.wikimedia.org...

The USA has been the catalyst for this dynamic increase in the world’s GDP. The US has been the engine of growth for the world, via its capitalist free market policies. The US has been a thought leader in economics, via Krugman, Amartya Sen, Stiglitz et al.

The USA is the biggest economy in the world, and serves as a massive consumer market.
en.wikipedia.org...(PPP)
Who does China rely on selling products to? The USA.
Who does India rely on selling BPO/ KPO services to? The USA.
en.wikipedia.org...

Now let’s take a look at how charitable the USA is. It’s the undisputed world leader in terms of charity.
en.wikipedia.org...

Politically, we know that the USA is the undisputed world leader. The UN security council is largely influenced by the policies of the USA, and the US continues to wield this power.

Which other country even comes close to being economically or politically as influential as the USA?

China? Nope, just look how people ran away from China and towards the USA once the economic crisis started. Just look at how people ran to the dollar when they wanted a safe haven. Crises show who is still in power. When man is hopeless and in a dangerous situation, he begins to pray. Even an otherwise irreligious man begins to pray… The situation with world politics is somewhat similar. We all like to bash the leader and nip at his heels, but when we need something done- a tyrant deposed, pirates cowed or an economy repaired, we all return on bended knee.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 06:41 AM
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ON TOPIC!


Iraq PM says forces can handle security without U.S.


BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki said on Saturday that the withdrawal of U.S. combat forces from Iraqi cities at the end of June showed Iraq can handle its own security, despite a wave of bombings this week.

The U.S. pullback from Iraq's urban centres scheduled to be finished at the end of the month has been seen as a milestone on Iraq's road to sovereignty

"We are on the threshold of a new phase that will bolster Iraq's sovereignty," Maliki said. "It is a message to the world that we are now able to safeguard our security and administer our internal affairs."


[edit on 27-6-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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Why does the world need a leader ?
And do you honestly think America leads today ??
That is just delusional.

Would Americans accept being led by another foreign government ?
So why do you think any other country would accept being led by the USA?

The Iraqis just want the American military out of their country.
You have killed 1.5 million+ of them, after all.

All the sniping and road bombs in Iraq are only directed at Americans.
Australians and other nations that are delivering aid to Iraq ARE NEVER FIRED UPON, and we use the same roads as the American patrols.

You will never read that in trhe US press, but it is true.

Up until recently Australia had 1600 military in Iraq delivering humanitarian aid, training, and technical expertise.

We were not conducting combat missions against anyone, we certainly had zero contact with US forces. The "insurgents" never fired upon us, and we have had zero combat deaths.

In fact our food convoys were welcomed by the Iraqis, they wave as we drive by. When a US patrol passes by a few minutes later the roadside bomb is set off, and the snipers come out. More dead Americans.

The next Aussie food convoy, the Iriquis smile and wave as we drive by.

Americans HATE hearing these things, but it is true. We have had 1,600 guys over there since 2003 and no combat related deaths. Zero, none.

The day the US leave Iraq as thoroughly beaten and disgraced losers and WAR CRIMINALS, there will be dancing in the streets.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 07:06 AM
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You just cant let your perverse obsession with the US go can you?



Originally posted by Silver Shadow
Not really.
Just realize that all the strife, suffering, violence and trouble that is soon coming upon America will all be created by Americans.

You will have done it all to yourselves.

The rest of us foreigners can just sit back in absolute awe, and watch America very violently self destruct.



Not really...

I know you will find this shocking we have always pretty much been this way. It's just now that there are our TV shows, Movies, and music all over the world. And now with the Internet everybody is getting an open unbiased never before seen view of the US. To many foreigners around the world it seems that we are about ready to fly apart. To us it's business as usual.


P.S. You should not bite one of the hands that feeds you.


Source? Your Government!

United States of America
Australia-US trade and investment

The United States is Australia's fifth largest merchandise export market and our most important market for services. It is Australia's largest import source for services and second largest import source for merchandise. The United States is the largest investor in Australia. Australia is the ninth largest provider of foreign direct investment (FDI) in the United States. The United States is one of the top five source countries for visitors to Australia in terms of numbers and expenditure.



[edit on 27-6-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 07:18 AM
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Just like to clarify something in my last post.

When I said there was no contact between the US military and Aussie military that is strictly not true.

We did have I think two (or three ?) staff officers permanently located at US headquarters. Their function is to ensure there are no friendly fire accidents with US attacking our food convoys by mistake. There are no combined or joint Aussie/US military operations. We do not do combat missions.

US and Aussie military do however mix freely off duty.
We just happen to be in the same country, but our jobs there are VASTLY different.

We are trying to rebuild Iraq and help the people, America is trying to kill the same people blow the place up.

One amazing feature is that a lot of the food we supply goes straight to the insurgents. So in a way, Australia is helping to kill Americans in Iraq by feeding and supplying medical supplies to your enemy.



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