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The CIA/MOSSAD, AMAN/DIA did 9/11! [BASED ON KNOWN HOAXES]

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posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by jensy
they seem to have left so many holes and imperfections that they manage to be caught out by a bunch of paranoid part time internet detectives. Not only this but as of yet not a single one of you has in any way shape or form been prevented or discouraged from preaching this bizarre and altogether contradictory argument.



Here's how it works. The government, MSM and Hollywood insidiously take control of a new communications media - the Internet.

They create open discussion forums where unsuspecting members air their grievances about governments, their agencies, and the powerful people pulling all the strings. Those who have figured out how it really works are tracked and massive files of their messages are assembled.

When the time comes they are transported to already prepared FEMA camps where in order to stay alive, they are forced to track other likeminded troublemakers who pose a threat to the NWO and it's agenda.

This is said to be happening already in vast underground complexes under the desert of Nevada.

I have nothing at this time to substantiate any of this. But that never stopped anyone from making accusations.


Mike



[edit on 27-6-2009 by mmiichael]




posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 03:00 AM
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Wow, so this thread has quickly been declared a hoax, huh?

What was it again about this compendium of news clips that was proven a hoax? I forget.


Like the U.S. government's Gulf of Tonkin incident, Operation Northwoods and JFK Magic Bullet Theory, shouldn't the neocon's "official" version of 9/11 be declared the real hoax?



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Nor should you stop questioning, it is man ability to question and reason which has allowed the advancement to the world in which we live. What I object to is the egotistical traits of some to believe they have come to the ultimate conclusion.

Personally I have never taken much of an interest in 9/11 conspiracy theories. I have lived my life between London and New York and had the dubious fortune of being just north of the city at the time of the attacks. As such I have a self confessed sensitivity to replaying the kind of panic and fear which I and those around me experienced.

What troubles me is not the existence of holes and contradictions in the ‘official’ story so much as the failure of the world’s only hyper-power to predict and pre-empt such an attack. Further more people who attempt to string together loose evidence which as demonstrated in this thread, can be pulled apart easily I find just as reprehensible.

Jensy



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by jensy
reply to post by mmiichael
 


Nor should you stop questioning, it is man ability to question and reason which has allowed the advancement to the world in which we live. What I object to is the egotistical traits of some to believe they have come to the ultimate conclusion.

Personally I have never taken much of an interest in 9/11 conspiracy theories. I have lived my life between London and New York and had the dubious fortune of being just north of the city at the time of the attacks. As such I have a self confessed sensitivity to replaying the kind of panic and fear which I and those around me experienced.

What troubles me is not the existence of holes and contradictions in the ‘official’ story so much as the failure of the world’s only hyper-power to predict and pre-empt such an attack. Further more people who attempt to string together loose evidence which as demonstrated in this thread, can be pulled apart easily I find just as reprehensible.

Jensy



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by jensy
 


Sorry about placing that quote in the wrong place...

I don't have any interest in 911 conspiracy either. The whole thing was clear as a bell ; first- at the time of the demolitions ( I honestly thought these buildings were brought down as a public safety measure ), and second - when the agent came running down the pile of smoldering rubble with a Saudi passport in his hand...

There really has been no need for theories since, IMHO.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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Which moderator labeled this thread a hoax? Could they explain exactly what information they believe to be a hoax?

Are these articles from the Bergen County Record (NJ) and Arutz Shiva News Service (Israel National News) hoaxes too?


BERGEN RECORD (New Jersey)
FIVE MEN DETAINED AS SUSPECTED CONSPIRATORS
Wednesday, September 12, 2001
www.bergen.com/news/2bombvan200109125.htm
By PAULO LIMA Staff Writer

Eight hours after terrorists struck Manhattan's tallest skyscrapers, police in Bergen County detained five men who they said were found carrying maps linking them to the blasts. The five men, who were in a van stopped on Route 3 in East Rutherford around 4:30 p.m., were being questioned by police but had not been charged with any crime late Tuesday.

However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Arutz Sheva News Service -- IsraelNationalNews.com 10-26-01:


Five young Israelis are "on the verge of collapse," according to family members, as their incarceration in New York on charges relating to the Bin Laden attacks continues. They were arrested on Sept. 11, only hours after the World Trade Center attack, on charges of "plotting to blow up" a New York bridge. Katie Shmuel of the Galilee town of Yokne'am, says that her son Yaron is in "a very critical psychological situation," given that they are not allowed to have visitors and the difficult conditions in which they are being held. "The Israeli Consul-General in New York was allowed to visit only after asking several times and receiving a special permit," Katie told Arutz-7's Yosef Zalmanson today. "He was allowed to talk to them only in English, and only from behind a glass partition. The Consul told me that the boys are in a bad state and that they are being held under difficult conditions."

When asked why the five youths, aged 22-26, are being held, Katie replied with despair: "It's ludicrous. They were on the George Washington Bridge at the time of the bombing, and the FBI had warnings of a terrorist plot, of guys in a white van, to blow up the bridge. So when the FBI saw this van, with my son and his four friends - one of them had a large sum of money, there were two razor knives in the van, and one of the boys is named Omer, which the FBI guys thought was Omar - they put one and one together and got three, and immediately arrested them... For the first few days, the boys were held in an FBI dungeon, tied up, with no clothes and no food."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.




[edit on 27-6-2009 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
How about the advanced warning that has been shown to be an exaggerated tale about a vague text that didn't specify location at all? can we now say that two of your facts used to back up your claim are, in fact, wrong?

When you put an idea out for people to believe, and you back your idea up with facts, you should know if the facts are, actually, correct.

What's "exaggerated", "vague", "non-specific" or "incorrect" about the facts in this Washington Post article?


The Washington Post
September 28, 2001

Instant Messages To Israel Warned Of WTC Attack

NEW YORK -- OFFICIALS at instant-messaging firm Odigo confirmed today that two employees received text messages warning of an attack on the World Trade Center two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the New York landmarks.
Citing a pending investigation by law enforcement, the company declined to reveal the exact contents of the message or to identify the sender.

But Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed that workers in Odigo's research and development and international sales office in Israel received a warning from another Odigo user approximately two hours prior to the first attack. Diamandis said the sender of the instant message was not personally known to the Odigo employees. Even though the company usually protects the privacy of users, the employees recorded the Internet protocol address of the message's sender to facilitate his or her identification.

Soon after the terrorist attacks on New York, the Odigo employees notified their management, who contacted Israeli security services. In turn, the FBI was informed of the instant message warning. FBI officials were not immediately available for comment today. The Odigo service includes a feature called People Finder that allows users to seek out and contact others based on certain interests or demographics. Diamandis said it was possible that the attack warning was broadcast to other Odigo members, but the company has not received reports of other recipients of the message.

In addition to operating its own messaging service network, Odigo has licensed its technology to over 100 service providers, portals, wireless carriers, and corporations, according to the company. Odigo is online at www.odigo.com... .

© 2001 The Washington Post Company
I have 2 questions. Is ATS now labeling inconvenient, sensitive or unpopular information as "BASED ON KNOWN HOAXES" because they disagree with the information presented?

Will the mod/admin who quickly labeled this thread a "hoax" return to defend their decision? My guess is no.



[edit on 27-6-2009 by GoldenFleece] extra DIV



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by jensy
 

Why is the Mossad only 'supposedly' evil to you? Do you not know that they are murderers? Do you not know that, not only are they murderers, they GET AWAY WITH IT?? These criminals killed an innocent man in front of his FAMILY!! And got off scott-free. Lillehammer affair
What do you think the Mossad is paid to do? Why do you think they operate in every single country? To answer this, lets look at Israel itself.
Israel by all means should be a poor and under-developed country. But it is the most advanced militarily in the world. How do they do this? The economy? They have all this technology and such yet they have so little money, they rely on $3 billion a year from the US and however much from Germany? How on earth do they afford it all?
Easy, their main export is SENSITIVE INFORMATION. They are where they are by selling info and disinfo gathered by spies to various countries. They are in your country (no matter which it is) in order to cause it harm. Whether direct or indirect. America sure doesnt spy on N Korea for Kim Jong Ils benefit.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


I'm confused on that one as well.
When was the Odigo information declared a hoax?

I have not seen this established anywhere, but if someone has information to the contrary please post it up.

Thank you.

- Lee



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by lee anoma
 


I don't know about 'Odigo', but in mike's OP he suggests that only ONE person of Jewish faith died in the WTC that day, with the innuendo that text messages might have been sent to more than just two people in ISRAEL!

As I understand it, this has been shown to be demonstrably false, it's simply another piece of rotten "data" that people fall for, even a researcher with the calibre of mike's.

Here's another example of how rampant speculation blossoms into absolutely incorrect 'info'...yet, some people buy into it as if it were gospel:

Originally posted by mikesingh:


One theory has the 767’s involved in the WTC attacks––as coming from the USAF KC-767 tankers that were outfitted with remote-control electronics.


Here are the facts about the KC-767 tanker variant:

www.airforce-technology.com...

Boeing submitted a revised bid for the KC-X in April 2007, the KC-767AT Advanced Tanker based on a newer version 767-200LR long-range freighter aircraft (rather than the 200ER) with Pratt & Whitney PW4062 engines. The contract was awarded to the Northrop Grumman KC-30 in February 2008.

Boeing has appealed against the award and has asked the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) to review the decision in relation to the evaluation award criteria established for the competition. The GAO sustained the protest and in June 2008 recommended that the USAF reopen the bidding process. In September 2008, the US Department of Defense cancelled the competition, citing the need to defer any decision for the next presidential administration taking power in January 2008.

In July 2001, the Italian Air Force ordered four 767 tanker transports in the combi variant with deliveries scheduled to begin in mid-2008. The aircraft is designated B-767 and Alenia Aeronautica is assisting in development and production. The maiden flight of the first aircraft was in May 2005


Note the dates I have bolded. "Facts" are a very slippery thing, indeed!


Fixed link (I hope?)

[edit on 6/28/0909 by weedwhacker]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


I'm LEARY of anyone who didn't review the links I provided that showed that the Odigo message was an exaggeration of what actually happend. It was, without a doubt, odd as hell but the 2 employees who received the messages were in Israel when it happened and the messages did not indicate WHERE the attack was to take place. If you follow the links I provided and not stick to articles that predate mine, you will see that the propagandists seized upon the incomplete aspect of that story.

Much like the propagandists seized upon phony stories about 4000 Israelis and only one dead jew.

The thread was moved to the hoax forum because the foundation for the theory was based, in part on hoaxes. Not every aspect of the article was a hoax and that is rather clearly pointed out in the title change and the admin edit made by SkepticOverlord, who made the hoax forum call and moved it.

If y'all would read the posts and stop LEARing at old articles, you'd see that the world continued to research and report on these issues well beyond the dates of your linked articles.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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I'm incredibly interested in the truck with the mural on it though which was full of explosives...

That and the mossad agent being on the plane... that blew my mind.


But why, why would a mossad agent fly to their death? I understand Jihadis... but a Mossad agent? Are they as stupid as these religious fanatics?



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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The original post contains a hodge podge of blatantly false pseudo-facts like:

"Police apprehend two Mossad agents caught delivering a Truck Bomb next to the WTC building in New York City"

to speculations on remote controlling devices manufactured buy a Jewish owned company.

Did Mossad get wind of 9/11? Likely, as did other countries as far away as the Philippines and for certain the US. But how specific was anyone's knowledge? Details of the plan and exact date - or just bits and pieces of a big even coming down the pike?

A more balanced look at these questions appears here, outlining some initial reaction to 9/11 by Israelis:





www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Remarkably, the Urban Moving Systems Israelis, when interrogated by the FBI, explained their motives for "celebration" on the New Jersey waterfront a celebration that consisted of cheering, smiling, shooting film with still and video cameras and, according to the FBI, "high-fiving" ­- in the Machiavellian light of geopolitics. "Their explanation of why they were happy", FBI spokesman Margolin told me, "was that the United States would now have to commit itself to fighting [Middle East] terrorism, that Americans would have an understanding and empathy for Israel's circumstances, and that the attacks were ultimately a good thing for Israel".

When reporters on the morning of 9/11 asked former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about the effect the attacks would have on Israeli- American relations, he responded with a similar gut analysis: "It's very good", he remarked. Then he amended the statement: "Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy [for Israel from Americans]".

[...]

if the men were cheering for political reasons, as they reportedly told the FBI, they obviously believed they were witnessing a terrorist act, and not an accident.

After returning safely to Israel in the late autumn of 2001, three of the five New Jersey Israelis spoke on a national talk show that winter. Oded Ellner, who on the afternoon of September 11 had, like his compatriots, protested to arresting officer Sgt. Dennis Rivelli that "we're Israeli", admitted to the interviewer: "We are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event". By his own admission, then, Ellner stood on the New Jersey waterfront documenting with film and video a terrorist act before anyone knew it was a terrorist act.

One obvious question among many comes to mind: If these men were trained as professional spies, why did they exhibit such outright oafishness at the moment of truth on the waterfront? The ABC network source close to the 20/20 report noted one of the more disturbing explanations proffered by counterintelligence investigators at the FBI: "The Israelis felt that in some way their intelligence had worked out ­- i.e., they were celebrating their own acumen and ability as intelligence agents".

The questions abound: Did the Urban Moving Systems Israelis, ready to "document the event", arrive at the waterfront before the first plane came in from the north? And if they arrived right after, why did they believe it was a terrorist attack? What about the strange tale of the "art students"? Could they have been mere hustlers, as they claimed, who ended up repeatedly crossing paths with federal agents and living next door to most of the 9/11 hijackers by coincidence? Did the Israeli authorities find out more about the impending attacks than they shared with their U.S. counterparts? Or did the Israeli spies on the ground only intercept vague chatter that, in their view, did not warrant breaking cover to share the information?

On the other hand, did the U.S. government receive more advance information about the attacks from Israeli authorities than it is willing to admit? What about the 9/11 Commission's eliding of reported Israeli warnings that may have led to the watch-listing of Mihdhar and Hazmi? Were the Israeli warnings purposely washed from the historical record? Did the CIA know more about pre-9/11 Israeli spying than it has admitted?




Mike



[edit on 28-6-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
I'm LEARY of anyone who didn't review the links

If y'all would read the posts and stop LEARing at old articles,


Is this dig really professional? I mean he was banned over a year ago now.

And what has happened to Mike Singh



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


I'm LEARY of anyone who didn't review the links I provided that showed that the Odigo message was an exaggeration of what actually happend. It was, without a doubt, odd as hell but the 2 employees who received the messages were in Israel when it happened and the messages did not indicate WHERE the attack was to take place. If you follow the links I provided and not stick to articles that predate mine, you will see that the propagandists seized upon the incomplete aspect of that story.

Much like the propagandists seized upon phony stories about 4000 Israelis and only one dead jew.

The thread was moved to the hoax forum because the foundation for the theory was based, in part on hoaxes. Not every aspect of the article was a hoax and that is rather clearly pointed out in the title change and the admin edit made by SkepticOverlord, who made the hoax forum call and moved it.

If y'all would read the posts and stop LEARing at old articles, you'd see that the world continued to research and report on these issues well beyond the dates of your linked articles.



Wow. Big thumbs down, sir.


If you want to dig at a member, then bring that member back and allow him a rebuttal.

I am extremely disappointed, Crakeur. You usually seem like more professional than this. Perhaps i expect too much...



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I'm incredibly interested in the truck with the mural on it though which was full of explosives...

That and the mossad agent being on the plane... that blew my mind.


But why, why would a mossad agent fly to their death? I understand Jihadis... but a Mossad agent? Are they as stupid as these religious fanatics?


And here you have examples of why this is labelled HOAX - but maybe DISINFORMATION is a better word.

No truck full of explosives. As I recall, a map with places circled on it - pretty standard for a moving company. Boxcutters - also pretty standard for people cutting open boxes. Dogs trained to sniff out things like explosives reacting - yes, they reacted, but no explosives found. As the dogs cannot provide testimony, we don't know if they smelled traces of explosive once in the truck, which may have a mundane explanation like a delivery, or even a female dog in heat in the back at some time.

A Mossad agent was one of the hijackers? Probably 100s of websites claiming so. But flies in the face of substantiated evidence, testimony, and logic.

This kind of false information lives and thrives on the Web. For those wanting to believe such things, it's considered factual.


Mike



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


I'm LEARY of anyone who didn't review the links I provided that showed that the Odigo message was an exaggeration of what actually happend. It was, without a doubt, odd as hell but the 2 employees who received the messages were in Israel when it happened and the messages did not indicate WHERE the attack was to take place. If you follow the links I provided and not stick to articles that predate mine, you will see that the propagandists seized upon the incomplete aspect of that story.


If you were referring to me you shouldn't be leary.
It's just an oversight on my part it seems. No conspiracy here, Captain.


After looking through your thread posts I believe you are referring to this link you posted: 9/11 Myths

Aside from the fact that the information it contains explains that...

"Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed that workers in Odigo's research and development and international sales office in Israel received a warning from another Odigo user approximately two hours prior to the first attack"

...yet provides a link to back this up that takes you to a web page discussing antibiotics(??!) for some strange reason, so far I can not find the original and legitimate news article this references.

It appears this web page addresses some outlandish position I hadn't even seen put forth anywhere and then uses it to deflate the real story. It claims the Alex Jones stated that Odigo warned hundreds of employees to evacuate the WTC.

Although I hope most people don't look at Jones as a legitimate news source, I personally have never heard of this rumor. Still the information on the link you provided seems to address it as being passed off as a fact then attempts to deflate this lie with the ACTUAL information that caused the stir. It passes the real story off as less dramatic, by comparing it to a more dramatic rumor based scenario created by some radio host when the original story itself was compelling enough to consider conspiratorial.

Is this bogus Alex Jones rumor being used as disinformation to downplay the actual story from legitimate new sources?

In any case, I still see that the story I was referring to (the real NEWS article) is not so easily written off as a hoax.

The company has yet to reveal the exact contents of the message or who this sender actual was. I suppose it was serious enough to the recipients, since the employees notified their superiors who in turn notified the authorities and the FBI.


It was, without a doubt, odd as hell but the 2 employees who received the messages were in Israel when it happened and the messages did not indicate WHERE the attack was to take place.


I agree too that it was odd, but it doesn't matter if they received the message while in Israel if the message was somehow sent out using a feature to contact people of Israeli nationality, and these two mean happened to fit that profile.

Clearly the two employees were confused as to why they were sent it, so I doubt it was meant specifically for them alone as it has been stated that this provider allows you to forward messages beyond those simply added to your buddy list. So far I cannot find the article that explains that the message was not specific to the NY attack, but it is quite possible it was vague enough not to be. Odigo hasn't released the contents of the message as far as I can tell, but I'd be curious to see what it said.

Write it off as vague, but I'd like to know how often such warnings have been sent out like this through Odigo in the past, and have any been closely connected to such a major terror attack on any specific country.

It's a legitimate conspiracy in my opinion and not one this site should try and kill as being somehow less unusual in comparison to most of the others floating around here that are more outrageous by comparison.

This particular case is far from closed in my opinion and should be allowed a discussion on this site.

- Lee



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by lee anoma
 


I don't know about 'Odigo', but in mike's OP he suggests that only ONE person of Jewish faith died in the WTC that day, with the innuendo that text messages might have been sent to more than just two people in ISRAEL!

As I understand it, this has been shown to be demonstrably false,

You misunderstand because you initially misread and continue to misrepresent the OP's post. He never said only one Jew died in the WTC towers -- he said only one Israeli died, which is correct.


Originally posted by mmiichael
No truck full of explosives. As I recall, a map with places circled on it - pretty standard for a moving company. Boxcutters - also pretty standard for people cutting open boxes. Dogs trained to sniff out things like explosives reacting - yes, they reacted, but no explosives found.

Except 'Urban Moving Systems' wasn't really a moving company -- it was an Mossad intelligence operation! I love how you spin every bit of information (according to your beloved 9/11 Myths government disinfo website) and conveniently forget the initial news reports and taped NYPD transmissions concerning the "tons of explosives" being found, not to mention what New Jersey police detectives at the scene said:


However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this [9/11 attacks]. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Was U.S. Army Radio, CBS News and the Jerusalem Post all perpetrating 9/11 hoaxes?


American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by GoldenFleece
 

I'm LEARY of anyone who didn't review the links I provided that showed that the Odigo message was an exaggeration of what actually happend.

There was nothing exaggerated, vague or incorrect about the Odigo text messages. You stated that there was no mention of an exact location. That is absolutely false, as proven in the Washington Post article above. The only mystery is why these text messages were never investigated by the FBI or reported on again -- just like the stock market put options on AA/UA that were later traced to Deutsche Bank and former CIA Executive Director A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard.

And I see you guys (or maybe just you) still think I'm John Lear. How lame. Continue your LEARiness, but you're wrong about this too.


[edit on 28-6-2009 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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I don't see this as a hoax...

Fabled Enemies a 911 doco tackles some things other 911 docos seemed a bit reluctant to talk about:

Google Video Link


Truth see's no prejudice !



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
And I see you guys (or maybe just you) still think I'm John Lear. How lame. Continue your LEARiness, but you're wrong about this too.


Oh I thought that was a reference to my post about the Odigo article.

In any case the links that Crakeur has provided to explain this Odigo anomaly away contain reference links that are either broken or fraudulent, because they don't lead you to the source they claim to base their information on.

Does anyone know of any legitimate article that this web site seems to be referencing where Odigo went into detail about the message being extremely vague?

So far all I've found were forum posting that lead to the same broken or fraudulent link.

- Lee



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