Gates is an Ass! he's clueless-Does he really think from now on out we only going to fight Terrorists on the ground?

The Threats that have been there are always there. I'd rather have 2000 F22’s and spend the money than have one foot soldier die on the ground. We need technology to defeat the enemy with as few lives lost as possible.

The Terrorist issue has be dealt with in other ways, but that’s not going to be our only fight in the next 20 years.

You already spend more than the world combined on your military and your 11 trillion(conservative number) dollars in debt.I mean honestly...im sure your fancy fighters wont see any serious action except for dropping bombs on AK-47 wielding taliban in the near future.

We not building them for the Taliban- Korea, Russia, China, Iran, Pick one i might have missed about 4-5 others that don't like us.


[edit on 24-6-2009 by SharkBait]

I think you missing the point here- If two countries have Nuke's that cancels them out-Neither will use it against the other because they know what will happen-END OF THE EARTH-

So now that you cannot use them you have to turn to technology to keep the enemy at bay. The better the technology the less lives we lose.

In the end of the day you cannot defeat a country with Nukes, you can destroy most of their military but that's as far as you can risk going.You cannot put them into the corner where they feel they need to use the weapon.

We lost 1000's of lives in the 2nd world war because we more or less had the same technology as Germany. Lucky we had the Bomb !

Yes F-22 is sorely needed, the F-18 did a good job but its getting too old. I hope the people from these other countries realize that we are aligned to them by treaties. If they are attacked we are obliged to come to their defense. Thank You ! USA for protecting us and our social democracies!

I hope they fund thousands of more Drones for the future, this is where technology is taking us...

Once again a Democrat Presidency is starting to screw over the military.

I bet dooper remembers the Clinton years.

the f-22 is freakin awesome, but unfortunately it is already outdated.

UAVs are the future. there in no way around that...i would say keep the f22s we have and then do it right, take the man out. one life saved for it is well worth it...

the future UAV will be able to take dow any man flown fighter ever. g-force, armament capacity, speed, maneuverability. we waste enough money. we shouldnt waste it on outdated technology...as cool as I think it is.

Gates is getting dangerous. He has been on a one man irrational drive for some time now, and foams at the mouth when the F-22 is mentioned. His logic is severely flawed, and perspective horribly wrong. The Pentagon, current USAF leadership, as well the two former AF chiefs that Gates fired do indeed have studies which show more than 187 F-22's are needed. However these generals desire an occupation, and not an early retirement. As such, we are to believe 187, a number arrived to by sheer bureaucratic incompetence, is somehow a magical and sufficient number. Congress has been keeping a few programs alive that Gates wants to kill. The F-22 will find its way into the defense bill, mark my words. Gates and Obama will never dare veto a Department of Defense fiscal budget. I cannot even recall the last time such a thing happened. It would alienate so many powerful individuals and make for horrible politics. It's a sad, sad, empty, and irrational threat. It is unfortunate that the US military's biggest threat is not a foreign enemy, but it's own defense chief!

This place is really going to the dogs.


Too many chest thumpers that are too blinded by patriotism, and too excited by big fancy weapons to see reality.


The USAF right now, does not want the F-22. Right now, the USAF wants CAS bomb trucks, and it wants both strategic and tactical airlift capabilities.

It also wants improved intelligence from UAVs or other methods.

It does not need or want a silver bullet at the expense of these things.


In 10 years time, the F-22's main advantage relative to the rest of the world will be diluted, if not effectively removed.


What happens when someone eventually gets around to sticking an anti-missile DEW on the pylon of a flanker? All of a sudden that big sniper rifle the F-22 has is removed from the field of play and your back to a knife fight.

Who here fancies sending your $150 million F-22 up against $50 million flankers*? Thats a helluva way to win a war.

*Or worse, $30 million UCAVs?


They are making decisions like this BECAUSE THEY KNOW MORE THAN YOU.

^^ exactly - the cold war is over , the entire methodology has been turned on its head and the USAF wasn`t ready for it - the USN cancelled the avenger when it knew it was a lame duck - but they ended up with a worse one but ho hum;

The F35 i honeslty doubt in 99% of its life will be the `uber stealth` platform they say it is - tabs will be ripped off and it`ll be lugging racks of 250 and 500 lb bombs everywhere