I cannot seem to get a straight answer from any creationists. WHAT PROOF IS THERE? I do not want to insult (too much) but I just want to know what's considered proof? Please read others' posts before you go ranting, and I want REAL proof. I welcome atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, evolutionists, etc. to help counter anything that is less than absolute, undeniable proof.

(if you like the thread, flag it)

[edit on 24-6-2009 by sobek52]

the reason noone can give you an answer is because their is no answer...

the truth is noone really knows what happened, as noone was their.. we find bones and books but these are just bones and books ..

I thought that was the whole amazing thing about creationism. God just made it happen. Poof, people. To me that means there would be no proof, just faith. Totally faith-based. But I'm not a creationist so I can't vouch for that, that just seems to be the logical answer to your request.

I dont follow the dictate of a Monotheistic god creating all that is etc 6000 yrs ago or whatever....

However your post is not very well worded or questioned?

Who created you?

And them?

Ad infinitum?

What created the universe...


You see it really to my mind can feel like an endless follow on that train of thought of black or white there is not or is a Creator as such,

Because with a Creator of godlike or not nature it makes no sense, that creator would to have to be created, even if by themself...

And without a creator event then you have to ponder was there a beginning ever anyhow.... as in even scientifically what was before the Big Bang?

If you state nothing, well then what created nothing, as in a logical sense I suppose that nothing is truley something as it is a position, a lack of, an opposite of something, meaning duality and therefore something and nothing, again needing it to be created as such.

Just some thoughts for you ponder before it seems so there is or there isnt eh?

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 25-6-2009 by MischeviousElf]

"EVILUTION IS A LIE! THERE ARENT TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS AND ATHEISM IS A RELIGION!!!!"

thats about all proof anyone ever hears. there is no "proof" except what people claim through personal experience.

its why creationists focus on disproving evolution (or making darwin look bad or like he recanted) more than proving their point of view.

Elf: youre assuming the universe had a beginning. it could just be ever expanding and contracting for all eternity.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

The Fossil record and carbon dating results are definitive. Of the two, evolution is the only one with proof. Please don't just slam evolution without evidence for your claims to back up your post, and try to give some proof for your side. Don't simply denounce your opponent without giving some substance for your opinion that you so passionately uphold.

So, what your saying is:
6000 years ago an omnipresent, all powerful, invisible being in the shape of a complex being popped into existence. He (seemingly already imparted with full knowledge of his powers) decided to create all this stuff. Later on, he sends his son to die, who then rises from the dead (like one of the undead that christians have hunted until the 1900s.) Now if you dont believe in him, he will send you to a place to burn forever.
Riiiiight. Its more likely that ALIENS created us or helped us develop (not entirely unlikely.)



[edit on 24-6-2009 by sobek52]

reply to post by sobek52

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who are you replying to?...

Religion is just a manifestation of mankind to appease the (d)numb sheeple. In fact, i'll go out on a limb and say religious people are stupid...aahhh, i feel better now

I won't rant, but instead urge you to watch this excellent summary of creationism...

YouTube Link

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest

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You, and those who rant without any evidence to support your claims.

Elf. I acknowledge your post. you make good points, but the creation of the universe cannot be attributed to an imaginary sky being. That is at the far end of the spectrum of believability. Religion may be necessary for early cultures to explain a mystifying world. WE ARE BETTER THAN CAVEMEN. we have SCIENCE now, to explain the world, and science/reason is to religion like salt to a slug.

reply to post by sobek52

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Well as long as they can fleece their flock for billions of $$...tax free, then religion will still keep them in a neanderthalic mindset.

I dont care for the idea that the religious are morons, I know some that are smart, but most atheists I know are GREAT people, and half the religious people i know are -insert plural curse word of choice-
Nice vid

If there was infallible proof of anything, everyone would believe it (in theory) and there would be no debate.

Right?

reply to post by ravenshadow13

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True. But there is no proof, so atheism is growing with some speed.

reply to post by sobek52

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PoS beat me to it!!

The Ricky Gervais video is one of my faves.

sobek, great thread, don't let the buggers get to you, is my only advice. AND read their responses very carefully

I have seen a blurring occur, in these discussions...goalposts move willy-nilly. IF the topic is evolution, then a 'creationist' brings up the origin of all life. Those are TWO different subjects, so don't let them bait you.

And now for something completely different, another funny:

YouTube Link

reply to post by sobek52

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Right. I'm an atheistic evolutionist. Evolution is how I explain how we got here. But people still debate evolution, so there is no infallible proof for it. Even though I think there is, apparently there isn't.

i would be pleased if you read my whole post before you responded. do it. do it now. you very clearly didnt. and you probably also didnt notice that i put the all caps letters in quotes.

Religion was just a method to control people before governments came along.

The Bible was just people trying to make sense of life, the universe and everything before we got the real answer, 42. But the ultimate question itself is still unknown.

reply to post by weedwhacker

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Thanks. Great video (in a comic sense, but the theme is somber.)

Electric-I do not see any real point in your post, and ive read it five times. Guys, do you see what hes getting at?

Wally-Exactly! Do away with the old, accept what has proof. (love the hitchhiker reference )

[edit on 24-6-2009 by sobek52]

[edit on 24-6-2009 by sobek52]

There isn't any proof. Coming from a religious/spiritual/creationist perspective, gradual evolution starting from a bacteria probably happened. I don't hinge my faith on that, and I don't try to make myself better because of what did or didn't happen millions of years ago, I do it because I want to make myself better and that for me is the purpose of creation.

Why would God want you to have proof to begin with? If there was proof, you'd then be a believer and follow God, but where was your choice in the matter? If God wants to create creatures that act seemingly independently/freely, then how would revealing himself before you have made any improvement to yourself, help? You'd be forced and God doesn't want drones.

reply to post by ghaleon12

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But where did god come from, how does he have his powers, and why did he supposedly send down the 10 commandments and have contact w/ humans if he didn't want us to have proof???