New discovery: Humans playing the flute for at least 35,000 years

Excellent find warrenb, S&F sir!

Have we really come that far?

A wheel, a fulcrum, an energy source (steam, internal combustion) and a switch (everything from a mechanical computers to modern computers and electronics) is pretty much all that separates us from the ancient man.

Since the invention of Politics, we have gone backwards in many respects

Actually, I heard a piece today on NPR, where someone was playing the flute, and it had a beautiful, beautiful sound to it. Much prettier than many flutes I've heard these days. I can't imagine any song being awful, if it was sung by the same makers as the flute makers.

I think we underestimate early humans, and I think that there must have been earlier high civilizations before, that we just don't know about. Our history is so biased...we think we are the greatest civilization to come along ever...when, in reality, we may be much less "civilized" than many that came before us.

I just thought of something...

What if every great civilization that comes along, is always more aggressive than the one before it? I was thinking today, if something drastic happened to the world, and nuclear war came about, which humans would survive, thrive, and reproduce?

The educated?
The peaceful?
The "civilized" ?

Hell, no. It would be the prisoners. The foragers. The survivors. Those who will survive at any cost, whatever means necessary.

if it's true that we've had previous civilizations before us come and go that we don't know about, doesn't it make sense that the most aggressive from each civilization would survive whatever cataclysm destroyed their civilization?

So, if that's true, let's say there's been 4 major civilizations come and go in the last 35,000 years. That means, that we are 4x more aggressive than those humans that were around 35,000 years ago. (Rough estimate, but you get where i'm going.)

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

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I imagine you are fairly correct in both ideas...although their idea of 'pretty music' and our are likely at odds

You ever noticed that a happy child is a humming child? The love of rhythm and then melody are innate. That they would involve music in shamanistic practice seems highly probable. They are believed to have banged rocks together for beats and humming and chanting would follow. It seems a reasonable idea that they would use the flute too. I bet the drum pre-dates the flute but hollow logs and animal skins will be long disappeared.......

Modern hunter-gatherers use shamanism and 'magical plants' to connect to the underworld and 'spirits.' They also use drum beats, chanting and dancing allied with ritual. I reckon we can look to our present sometimes to see behaviors from the past.

reply to post by rogerstigers



You might be interested in the Ishango Bone. It's thought to be the earliest example of a mathematical table that works on base 12 principles.

The Ishango Artefact: the Missing Base 12 Link

I don't know about the paper's conclusions, but it's a very interesting object indeed and originates in the heart of Africa.

reply to post by warrenb

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As the flute played it's first tune, the bees had been doing all the work.
Now the honey bee is from out of this world.
I have thousands around for the pending 'hard' times.

While Mr. Monsanto hunts the bee, the bee ultimately stings it's offspring.
Mr. Monsanto via Codex Alementarious is about to born itself extinct. This is by 'design'. Nature rules in the End; Always has.

Human Nature rules from within when it bears it's own compass. The people appear trapped in a Bermuda Triangle of 'Change' they can believe in?

It should be quite apparent by now, the only change you see is the mask fed by it's tele-prompter. Time to pull that plug? I prefer one to speak from within than from without. I'm sure you'd agree. It's only natural?

As I insert 'The International" into the DVD player, I ask myself, what's new?

Edit to International.

'Good' night folks.




[edit on 25-6-2009 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by nikiano

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Can you provide a link to the show that features one of these flutes? I'd love to hear it to get a better idea of the sound

BTW...lots of lost civilizations is a nice idea, but there isn't any evidence for it yet.

reply to post by warrenb

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So, taking common sense into the equation..
Which came first?
Farming and grain storage? or this flute?

It seems daft to think that something as technical as making a musical instrument would come before the need to satisfy ones hunger over a sustained period such as winter..

We still consider a days work to put food on the table a priority before we indulge in hobbies such as music or writing here on ATS. Why should it have been any different back then?

I find it hard to believe that a flute is older than grain storage, particularly in the area this flute was found.. Winter is a hard time at the best of times and food can be very scarce so we must have had some ability to store food in order to while away the winter hours making flutes and to keep ourselves entertained or spiritually enlightened.
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

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One thing we must consider is the effect that any music would have had on a culture that does not have 24 hour global music concerts in an attempt to end hunger and/or poverty.

Today we take it for granted. We walk around with our ipods and gigs of music tracks, listening to it all as a matter of fact. Occasionally we go to a concert or night club and we tend to fet more from the collective groupings of people than we appreciate the music.

For example, who remembers seeing REM perform 'Everybody hurts' at live aid?
The mood that the song, combined with the crowd, created really 'strikes a chord' whithin us.

The effect of one flute on a culture that has just begun to lay down the drum sticks must have been huge. An instrument you can carry with you and play at any time in any place could have been deeply 'shamanistic'. Especially when you're in a chamber, such as cave and you're getting all of the flutes notes rebounded back at you from all directions.

Caves may have been nothing more than the equivalent of a modern amplifier. Used in a way to enhance the musical emotions the instruments held.

This is how science works. They totally depend on found data.
And the picture it gets is totally twisted.

Humans, Neanderthals, Heidelbergenses and Erectus all used musical instruments.

Anyone can use a leaf of grass to produce music. Children do that without anyone showing them.

Sound is both a "spirit catcher" with or without a "melody" (usually a cadenza, a circular reference music used for brainwashing).

Instrument can be used by shamans to "break" the "flow" of reality, or normal processing of perception,

or by shepherd boys to control the herd,

or by musicians, who entertain (and control) the masses

etc.





[edit on 25-6-2009 by DangerDeath]

I heard it on NPR, so you should be able to go to their website and search "ancient flute" or something similar, and find it there. I think they post all their shows online, if I'm not mistaken.

i had a dream the night before i saw this on yahoo...so yesterdey while i was asleep....the flute apear before me and i played it for a while...then i woke up and saw the same flute on the internet ...this is not the first dream i had of ancient happenings...the first one was about stone spherical balls in bosnia where i am from...i didnt even know they existed there...apparently i have some allies that help me during my dreams as carlos castaneda explained them or rather don juan in the book the art of dreaming.

The radio show mentioned earlier is still available to listen...A Little Flute Music To Warm The Cave. It doesn't sound much like Ian Anderson from Jethro Tull and reminds me of kids practicing recorder...flat. It's only 3 and a half minutes and well worth a listen

Damn! That Monkey tool usage: Hammer and Anvil video was quite good!

Just as the narrator says, we are beginning to understand as a species that other animals may be just as smart as we are but live different lives than us.

But if their buildings and tools are mistaken for human ones, they are on the path to becoming like us.

Not true.

I'm a flutemaker; it's surprisingly easy to do. Ocarinas are a bit trickier, but they're not that hard.

Here's a link to a boatload of pages... I used many of these when I started and many are based on traditional methods that are very very old:
www.shakuhachi.com...

I wonder if these primitve beings had an early equivalent to our " Jonas Brothers' ...... and if they did, I wonder if they were swiftly beaten to death with their own flutes.

They date the bone to 35000 years ago.But that doesn't mean somebody carved it freshly after killing the animal it came from. They could of just found old bones that the bone marrow was already decayed and gone from to make the process of carving for a flute easier.