North Korea Threatens to wipe USA off the map

Amagnon - You're joking, right? This is part of your IMPROV stand up routine?

Originally posted by bakednutz
And where is the proof that the US wants to provoke N. Korea? What would we stand to gain in that situation? And I suppose we are provoking Iran and so on and so forth? Get real......Not everything is a conspiracy.

The US is in the business of creating enemies, to give its population something to fear and to unite against.

And [ don't know about NK, but I do know the US is provoking Iran. There have been US clandestine forces there for well over a year, and the result is all this fuss about an election that a) probably wasn't fiddled as the previous week Mousavi was reconciled to losing and b) isn't properly democratic (no women or non-Islamic candidates) anyway.

Everything is a conspiracy? Have you no knowledge of the CIA's role in bringing down the last properly democratically elected president of Iran? He wanted to use Iranian oil wealth to benefit the Iranian people, and kicked out the multinationals. The UK wanted an immediate coup, but the US wouldn't play along until the next administration, when they sent Kermit Roosevelt over to (groan) install a puppet regime, which he did by causing very much the same kind of protests as we see now... but because it was a democracy it was much easier to undermine.

The mullahs have a much tightet grip on things and aren't going to flinch from brutality.

So, if you know the history it's all too easy to see what's going on now.

As for NK, referring to NK as part of the axis of evil every other speech isn't exactly diplomatic, is it?

As for what the US would stand to gain... the ultimate goal is to encircle China.

reply to post by bakednutz

Originally posted by spy66

Personally i don't think Kimmy is threatening the US without a reason. But the odd thing is we don't often get the facts about the reason. We always get the news that NK is threatening the US without cause first. Then we only hear of sanctions as a retaliation.

Why does it have to be a problem for the US that North and south Korea dont want to be merged as one nation?

I dont think the US is scared of NK attacking the United states. But the US is scared that NK is going to attacking US geopolitical interests in the far east.

US don't just want to protect their American borders. The US also want to protect their aria of control as well.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

I do agree with you that we do not hear all the facts about what we may or maynot be doing to make NK defensive.
For the most part though, I think NK is just saying stuff like that to rally its own people

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Tank2/8]

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by tim1989

 

America is the most destructive country on Earth.

By all means, give an example.

Vietnam, obviously: but let's not forget Laos and Cambodia, both bombed "illegally" (in other words, secretly, without a declaration of war) and the whole region blanketed with Agent Orange. At least a million people killed.

Indonesia: over a hundred thousand people killed by US-trained death squads from lists provided by the CIA after the US-inspired coup.

Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Guatemala, El Salvador, many others: the pattern repeats itself. Iran: the US installs the Shah and gives him SAVAK, a secret police which they train and equip.

Decades ago Amnesty International noted an unmistakable link between US aid to a country and that country's human rights record: the higher the level of aid, the worse the human rights abuses. It's a simple and unmistakable statistical fact.

And of course Iraq: over a million killed, almost a quarter of the country driven to refugee status, depleted uranium pollution everywhere, still in chaos.

We give away more foreign aid than any other country by far.

Not by head of populaton, for a start, that honour, last I looked, went to the Republic of Ireland. As a proportion of GDP, too, the US is way down the list, as you can clearly see from this map. In 2004-4 the US gave roughly 4 times the aid given by Holland. How big do you think their relative GDPs are? I could find out more but this is a long post as it is.

Here's yet another way of looking at the figures - comparing with military expenditure

But most importantly, like most other countries, foreign aid is a tool of foreign policy. And of course Israel gets the lion's share of foreign aid.

But also, most of that foreign aid goes on buying stuff from US companies that other countries may or may not need. Most of Israel's foreign aid goes on buying US weapons, for example.

It's also used as a tax-deductible dumping ground by the corporations, which is why you have things like diet pills being sent to famine areas. So put aside your illusions that the US is doing grand things around the globe with all that aid.

And of course intimately tied in with all this is the work of the corporate hitman, whose job it is to make sure that the corrupt leaders of third world countries keep signing their nations up for ludicrously expensive infrastructure products (provided, naturally, by US corporations) which keeps them in debt.

You're not by any means a jingoist, unlike some other knuckleheads in this thread, but I do think you've got a rather rosy picture of what the US actually does in the world.

Name one other country that has invaded as many places, subverted as many governments, assassinated as many presidents in the past half-century. I think you'll find you can't.

See... you also ruin things a bit by coming out with this sentimental twaddle...

But should Americans be proud of its military? [...] We do not have to be proud of the decisions by the elitists and politicians that use our military in an unpatriotic way. But proud of the people who serve and the accomplishments of its past...absolutely.

I'd submit that the accomplisments of its past are predominantly dictated by the decisions of the elite that uses it. Ever heard of Brigadier-General Smedley D. Butler? A proper soldier and patriot who blew the whistle on an intended right-wing coup between the world wars. Here is perhaps his most famous quote:

"I helped make Honduras 'right' for American fruit companies in 1903. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

"During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was operate his rackets in three districts. I operated on three continents."

That kind of activity didn't stop with Butler, obviously. United Fruit were behind the coup in Guatemala, ITT in Chile... the list does on.

So yes, for those people who've actually studied the history, the US IS the most destructive nation on the planet. Even the USSR never had the planet-spanning capabilities, nor the historical longevity that the US has.

You might try to find Mark Twain's writings on the US invasion of the Philippines, a really nasty and brutal suppression of an unarmed people. Twain was a member of the Anti-Imperialist society and absolutely nailed the humbuggery of those who promoted the invasion and slaugter. I read it in the run-up to the most recent invasion of Iraq and it was SO bizarre to read, in Twain, a description of rhetoric and behaviour that was uncannily echoed over a hundred years later.

All you people laughing this off better pray on your life that N.K. doesn't already have people inside the US.

The US isn't exactly hard to get inside of.

reply to post by bakednutz


You guarantee it? Really?

I've been reading the articles on this site for months and months now and I finally signed up. My two cents is that we can't assume anything about North Korea's intentions or capabilities because it is such an isolated state. They have the 2nd most controlled media in the world, and it's not like they couldn't have been accquiring weapons of mass destructions for the DECADES of cease fire we have stupidly given them. We should have finished the war before. Now, they have had almost half of a century to prepare for the 2nd phase of this war. Sure, Kim Jong Il does some goofy #, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have hatred in his heart. And 50 years is a really long time for a country to prepare.

this and iran very annoying now

in real life outside of the media and outside of politics

if i or anyone of you made these kind of threats to any of our peers

or any type of threat to any one


say you tell a person you hate you are going to kill them

even if its only rhetoric

you will potentially be facing severe legal issues

yet over and over and over and over again there are these ridiculous asinine back and forth absurd statements



it makes me think of history class and learning of hitler and laissez faire tactics

have we not learned from history?

im not exactly saying lil kim is the next hitler

but why are we screwing around playing these media bs games with iran and north korea

you'd think after the 3rd threat something serious would take place

like REAL sanctions OR REAL actions but nope

just over and over and over and over again all there is, is media menacing that leads nowhere



i for one am so sick of hearing about iran and koreas threats that im actually hoping for a nuclear war just to get it over with

but we all know

NO ONE WILL USE A NUKE

how do we know that?

because no one in power is stupid enough

no ones going to nuke the u.s. because the u.s. has the power to nuke them back no matter what, and the u.s. will win on that one

same goes for china russia and israel

and a world wide nuclear war???

please give me a break, the world is too advanced and intelligent for that scenario, those with the most nuclear power are much smarter then that

The only thing interesting about NK and Iran right now is that they have both gotten MUCH more brave in face of the US administration. And Obama was expecting peace because he wants to talk? LMAO. Yeah right. These countries think the US is now more of a joke than ever.

Originally posted by bakednutz
They have some bombs but they have no way of getting them here to the mainland. There comments are totally pointless.

Maybe they are already here, had anyone though of that?

reply to post by rich23

Vietnam, obviously: but let's not forget Laos and Cambodia, both bombed "illegally" (in other words, secretly, without a declaration of war) and the whole region blanketed with Agent Orange. At least a million people killed.

I mentioned Vietnam in my post you replied to. I recognize atrocities that have been committed. There are some I am not aware of, and others I have not looked into enough. But I know they have been committed. I dont believe I have refuted that.

Indonesia: over a hundred thousand people killed by US-trained death squads from lists provided by the CIA after the US-inspired coup.

I am skeptical of this. So if you could provide some sort of source, Ill be happy to look over it. I say I am skeptical in the sense it is the CIA you say was responsible ofr this. I would be more inclined to believe the SIS would have more to do with Indonesia, as they are remnants of the British Empire...And I say British empire only by name, because in my opinion the worlds elite are the same today as they were when Cecil Rhodes conspired with his fellow British imperialists to literally (and plainly stated...not so much a conspiracy) bring the entire world under British rule.

Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Guatemala, El Salvador, many others: the pattern repeats itself.

I am aware of of CIA underminings in these countries, and as I have made it clear I disagree with these kinds of actions.

Iran: the US installs the Shah and gives him SAVAK, a secret police which they train and equip.

Another scenario that should be attributed to Britain, if anyone.

Decades ago Amnesty International noted an unmistakable link between US aid to a country and that country's human rights record: the higher the level of aid, the worse the human rights abuses. It's a simple and unmistakable statistical fact.

First, I would like to ask: Is their a country, older than 100 years, that does not have some form of human rights abuses? I think you would be hard pressed to find even one.

Second, yes I did mention the fact specifically the U.S. government doles out more foreign aid than any other. But what I should have pointed out was the private funds and charities that America has developed exceeds that of any other nation as well. And in my opinion that is a far greater gesture than what any government can conjure up.

But most importantly, like most other countries, foreign aid is a tool of foreign policy. And of course Israel gets the lion's share of foreign aid.

But also, most of that foreign aid goes on buying stuff from US companies that other countries may or may not need. Most of Israel's foreign aid goes on buying US weapons, for example.

It's also used as a tax-deductible dumping ground by the corporations, which is why you have things like diet pills being sent to famine areas.

I dont disagree with anything you have stated, and it is a sickening concept to think what this "aid" could actually be doing in the hands of genuine people interested in the benefits of humanity. I agree and recognize that it is not.

So put aside your illusions that the US is doing grand things around the globe with all that aid.

Again, my main frame of thinking is the generosity of the private sector of the United States. It is unparalleled in scale comparison. Maybe not all of it is used the way it should, and maybe not all of it is genuine, but it is hard to deny the overall giving nature of the American people.

So, "grand illusions" are not an accurate description of my point of view.

Name one other country that has invaded as many places, subverted as many governments, assassinated as many presidents in the past half-century. I think you'll find you can't.

The British Empire. The largest empire the world had ever scene.

I am not defending some of these actions. As you can see I take more of a non-interventionist approach. Mostly, because when the decision has been made to step into some of these foreign affairs it has been to serve a more selfish agenda. And usually the infringed on nation has to deal with the consequences of those actions with little to no help. Besides some of the arguments where there are two sides of the story (which you seemingly fail to reconize) I think you are forgetting that we are not the lone wolf in these types of affairs. And again, I will point out my view that those that have the control are the same elitists that make up the CFR and other wolrd "think tanks" set up by imperialists that wish to control world resources and monetary policy, not solely Americans or even majority are Americans in some cases, and certainly these people have no real ties to any individual country other than face. These peoples supposed "representation"...and I use the word "representation" facetiously... of their people is nothing short of a bad joke. Personal gain and selfish agenda permeates the inner workings of wolrd politics. Not just American politics.

See... you also ruin things a bit by coming out with this sentimental twaddle...

What your "sentimental twaddle" is anothers pride. You can try to degrade that if you like, but I assure you it has no affect, and it only shows an immaturity and mis-understanding of a fellow man. As an American, and as one that understands (or at least has attempted to understand) the forefathers and what they represent which is a grand idea, it is my responsibility to do my part in taking that idea and extending it out to others in an honest and realistic way. That means, in my opinion, when someone asks me am I proud of our military the answer will be an unwaivering yes. I am proud of each of those that in their mind are standing up for things they believe in, and taking life by the horns and trying to do their best with it.

At the same time, I can admit and speak up about those things I disagree with. Such as foreign and domestic policy and unpatriotic leadership that exploits that idea and those that choose to stand up for it. proud of the individuals, I am. Proud of some of the past workings, I am not.


[edit on 28-6-2009 by open_eyeballs]

reply to post by AceOfAces

Why shouldn't we bomb their silos and military facilities back to the stone age?

I'm with you on this AceOfAces. I don't understand why we haven't done something either.

I want to touch on this as well.

And of course Iraq: over a million killed

While our invasion of Iraq is a disgusting display of an obvious over zealous administration with no loyal intentions to be honest with the American people and even worse a disgusting disguise with the obsurd lie that we are there to "liberate" them, I have found no cooroborating evidence that indicates this is an accurate number.

Other than people who like to exaggerate because of bias, I believe this is a fallacy. And probably conjured up and spread for politically motivated reasons.

So yes, for those people who've actually studied the history, the US IS the most destructive nation on the planet. Even the USSR never had the planet-spanning capabilities, nor the historical longevity that the US has.

I believe Hitler might take special offense to this statement. Nuff said.



edit to add;

You mentioned:

Brigadier-General Smedley D. Butler

I am well aware of the coupe attempt and his role.

Heres one you may be interested in..he has his own statue in D.C.:

Albert pike


[edit on 28-6-2009 by open_eyeballs]

Originally posted by KEMIK
I'm curious to see what new toys the US breaks out if this thing goes down (hopefully not).

This... made by TRW an automotive parts company (that has a sideline )

Originally posted by googolplex
This is like the punk running his mouth, what a tough guy he is. Alot of people believe him and are afraid of him.
So this goes on till a real tough guy kicks the crap out of him, and he whimpers away.
Threats like this need to be addressed, before thay are able to fullfill, their threat.
Japan cried because we Nuked them, but if you think for second they would not of done it to us to a even greater extent, your in dream land.

I would tell NK to cease and desists, or suffer the consequences, to me this threat is declaring war on United States and it's people.

I agree! Kim needs to be taught a lesson. He thinks he can throw a tantrum and the world is suppose to give in to him. I don't like war, but it's high time he learns some manners before he is stronger and it's too late!

reply to post by Tank2/8


I guess from a American point of whew Kimmy is a lunatic and dangerous. But what are the NK's opinion of the US?
A point of whew depends on what side of the fence you are on.

Of Course NK would sell weapons to their allies there is nothing odd with that. So does the US. The US even sold WMD to Israel. I think up to this day only the US have given away WMD to another nation. And only a nation who is a Allie with the US is actually supported by US having WMD.

You will find that US have a lot of WMD placed around Europe apart from other war matterials as well.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by sandyg
I agree! Kim needs to be taught a lesson. He thinks he can throw a tantrum and the world is suppose to give in to him. I don't like war, but it's high time he learns some manners before he is stronger and it's too late!

I seem to recall the last time we messed around in that region we didn't do so well

This is information that many of you may find intersting
and informative about the military capabilities of the USA
versus North Korea if it came down to a nuclear or even
conventional systems confrontation.

This is North Korea's recent Blathering:
---------------------------------------------

North Korea has said it would consider interception and inspection
of any of it's ocean going ships (i.e. those that are suspected of
carrying illegal weapons) by the USA or the UN as a declaration of war

and will respond with the following:

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will
... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all,"
the official Korean Central News Agency said.


THE REALITY:

The Full Might of the United States Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine Fleet:

* 14 nuclear-powered SSBNs (ballistic missile submarines), each armed with
24 Trident II SLBMs; they are also known as "Boomers" and provide the
sea-based leg of the nuclear triad of the United States strategic
nuclear weapons arsenal

14 subs x 24 Trident-2 missiles each containing up to
eight W88 (475 kiloton) MIRV (Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles) warheads
with a total Nuclear Firepower of 1,276.8 Megatons (or 1.2768 Gigatons)

* 4 nuclear-powered SSGNs (cruise missile submarines), each capable of carrying
154 Tomahawk cruise missiles with conventional or nuclear warheads warheads
using the W84 150 Kiloton Warheads for a total Nuclear Firepower of
92.4 Megatons

And this is is JUST the Submarine fleet which cruises 24 hours a day 365 days a year
with at least 12 SUBS ALWAYS on patrol in the deep oceans while the others could be
scrambled within hours if necessary.

This also does not include the British or French Nuclear Sub Fleets
which also boast impressive Nuclear Firepower and could likely be relied
upon to provide any backup of the USA fleet if the going got dicy.

Even the Russians might join in if they believe that NK is more
trouble that they're worth!!!

That does not include the surface navies of even Canada
( a small navy though quite significant due to their technological
sophistication!), in addition to the much larger British, French
and German naval and air forces which could be deployed for
direct attack or support roles.

And these calculations DO NOT INCLUDE the 400 to 600 Isreali
Nukes and war machine which DEFINITELY could be counted on for support.

We must also include USA war machine sub-systems such as the
B1 and B2 and Hypersonic Aurora/Hypersoar Aerial and
space-based Bomber Fleets which are ALSO nuclear warhead
capable:

20 B2 Spirit Bombers each carrying sixteen 2,400 lb (1,100 kg) Variable Yield B83 nuclear bombs
of up 1.2 Megatons or 384 Megatons of Nuclear Firepower

66 B1 Lancer Bombers each carrying 24 B83 Variable Yield B83 nuclear bombs
of up 1.2 Megatons for a total nuclear firepower of 1900.8 Megatons (1.9 Gigatons)

Hypersoar/X33 type Space Planes of two type types of craft
in current speculation:

Singe-stage and two-stage to orbit space planes
Methane-powered/pulse detonation air-breathing engine
OR Hydrogen/Oxygen Self-carrying Oxidiser motors
10,000 km/h to 25,000 km/h - 15 to 20 tons payload
Combos of Nukes, Kinetic Projectiles, Cruise Missiles,
Large Conventional Bombs (i.e MOAB's)

AND IN ADDITION:

the Minuteman-3 Land-based missile force of 450 nuclear missiles
each carrying one W87 475 kiloton warhead for a total nuclear
firepower of 213.75 Megatons and tactical or theater nuclear missiles
such as the 1990's/2000's successors to the 50's/60's era
Shrike or Nike theatre/tactical nukes

So lets re-iterate the USA's current Nuclear Firepower
in just it's 3 major arms:

Sub Missiles : 1369.20 Megatons
Land Missiles : 213.75 Megatons
Planes : 2284.80 Megatons
-----------------------------------------
Total Nuclear Firepower = 3867.75 Megatons

or enough nuclear firepower to pretty much destroy
millions of square kilometers with blast effects and
multi-thousand year radiation/fallout effects.

So no I'm not too worried about the 25 to 100 or so 15 Kiloton Nukes
that North Korea might have....I am pretty sure we could OBLITERATE
the ENTIRE COUNTRY from the Earth if necessary!!!!!!

I should also add the RESERVE NUCLEAR FORCE
that is currently in storage under the SORT and START-2
missile treaties but can still be re-activated in times
of emergency as being a total of over 12,000 MEGATONS
for a Grand Total of almost 16,000 Megatons (16 Gigatons)

So the USA has one hell of a lot of Nuclear Firepower
that North Korea would be WELL ADVISED to be aware of
when confronted with such a MILITARY SUPERPOWER that
last year spent 607 Billion Dollars with 42 BILLION DOLLARS
of that on the "Black Budget" (Google that term!)
which is Research & Development on things such as
Large but non-radioactive Hafnium Isomer Explosives,
Hypersonic (20,000 KMH) Space Bombers (Hypersoar/X33 types),
Super-Cavitating Submarines & Torpedos,
Kinetic Energy and Directed Energy weapons
and other such R&D that would just absolutely STUN
any of you who don't know about such stuff!

Cue small but powerful tactical and theatre nukes plus submarine-fired cruise missiles
and B2 Stealth Bomber bunker busters and thousands of non-radioactive
kinetic energy weapons fired from orbiting spaceplanes such as Aurora
or Hypersoar-based tactical Spaceplane bombers.

I should also mention that ground penetrating radar from satellites
can go as deep at 1000 meters (Or more!) depending upon the wavelength
and total power, so NK's tunnels wouldn't be so hard to find and map
for targetting and destruction using...lets say... a 1 ton Tungsten Rod
fired at 17,000 KMH from space hitting the ground at the same force
as a 10 kiloton Nuclear weapon -- 10 to 20 of them should do the trick
in BUSTING a 1000 metre deep tunnel complex. A single Minuteman-type
rocket can carry 10 of them each and we have HUNDREDS of
spare Minuteman rockets left over from the 1960's!

I say to Kim Jong Il and that ignomious turd of a megamaniacal son
aka Kim Jong Un (newly appointed leader of North Korea) as they
think about trying a stunt against a Country (The U.S.A) that could
TRULY WIPE YOU OFF THE FACE OF THIS EARTH !!!!!!!!!

...and to paramaphrase a saying by Dirty Harry (aka Clint Eastwood):

Go Ahead Punks! Make My Day

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Well... Apart from both nation's powers I cant see how you can underestimate NK like that and laugh.

What you should be thinking is... why does the US make threats against their nuclear program, Lil Kim ignores the US and keeps hes own way and the US stands still doing nothing? Empty threats?! And why does he say he will erase the US off the maps and the US doesnt do any "preemptive" crap like you love to do... maybe theres a lot more to korea than mmets the eye and you, "the people", have no idea.

Maybe they do have the power to obliterate the US, maybe they dont... one thing is certain, the US have no capability of actually entering NK to do anything. Topography is not one of US "fortes"... see vietnam for reference... you pretty much lost a war against a couple of poor guys, badly equipped dressed in rags. The US supremacy means NOTHING in NK.

Either way, if the US doesnt respond its just because their been called and their chikened out inside or they know that a "response" will make massive damage on their side. Lots of troops and means are away in the other part of the world, the terrain is not helping either... better stay quiet. And IF they stay quiet they will look pretty weak to the eyes of the world.

We all know the US only picks fights with smaller countries... now I for once would like to see the US taking a beating so they lose their lousy foreign policy, the way that they think they rule the world and still have the "holier than thou" face and stop policing the damn world.

I say... NK, do what you have to do, stop barking and start biting... US prove that you're up to it and that you are indeed the world's superpower (which we all know you're not) and stop backing up like chickens and face NK once and for all. Either way we'll see a new dawn when its over.

Let the games begin!

(I bet the US will chicken out like they always do with NK)

You have no idea what you're talking about! Too funny. Lol!