No one has mentioned one critical element. The ROK Army.

Unless something has changed very recently, the ROK Army in of themselves are some real badasses. Maybe not indoctrinated as the North Koreans, but likely to use their heads more than their northern cousins.

Militarily, politically, and economically, it would make no sense for the US to initiate an attack.

And I assure you, unless the North Koreans can wipe out the American forces in less than fifteen minutes, no President will allow 30,000 body bags to pass unattended.

It would take less than 15 minutes to do a clean wipe of any invading forces. We all know that.

But don't think the US is afraid of the ferocity of the North Koreans. I've seen some of the US troops in combat and they stand up pretty good against everyone they've come up against.

But to do so - to slug it out would be counterproductive.

RE: Anyone concerned about North Korea's threat?

ME:
No I am not particularly worried about today's
statement to the world about it's intentions:

North Korea has said it would consider interception and inspection
of any of it's ocean going ships (i.e. those that are suspected of
carrying illegal weapons) by the USA or the UN as a declaration of war

and will respond with the following:

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will
... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all,"
the official Korean Central News Agency said.


THE REALITY:

The Full Might of the United States Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine Fleet:

* 14 nuclear-powered SSBNs (ballistic missile submarines), each armed with
24 Trident II SLBMs; they are also known as "Boomers" and provide the
sea-based leg of the nuclear triad of the United States strategic
nuclear weapons arsenal

14 subs x 24 Trident-2 missiles each containing up to
eight W88 (475 kiloton) MIRV (Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles) warheads
with a total Nuclear Firepower of 1,276.8 Megatons (or 1.2768 Gigatons)

* 4 nuclear-powered SSGNs (cruise missile submarines), each capable of carrying
154 Tomahawk cruise missiles with conventional or nuclear warheads warheads
using the W84 150 Kiloton Warheads for a total Nuclear Firepower of
92.4 Megatons

And this is is JUST the Submarine fleet which cruises 24 hours a day 365 days a year
with at least 12 SUBS ALWAYS on patrol in the deep oceans while the others could be
scrambled within hours if necessary.

This also does not include the British or French Nuclear Sub Fleets
which also boast impressive Nuclear Firepower and could likely be relied
upon to provide any backup of the USA fleet if the going got dicy.

Even the Russians might join in if they believe that NK is more
trouble that they're worth!!!

And this DOES NOT INCLUDE the 400 to 600 Isreali Nukes,
the B1 and B2 and Hypersonic Aurora Aerial and space-based
Bomber Fleets which are ALSO nuclear warhead capable:

20 B2 Spirit Bombers each carrying sixteen 2,400 lb (1,100 kg) Variable Yield B83 nuclear bombs
of up 1.2 Megatons or 384 Megatons of Nuclear Firepower

66 B1 Lancer Bombers each carrying 24 B83 Variable Yield B83 nuclear bombs
of up 1.2 Megatons for a total nuclear firepower of 1900.8 Megatons (1.9 Gigatons)

AND IN ADDITION THERE IS:

the Minuteman-3 Land-based missile force of 450 nuclear missiles
each carrying one W87 475 kiloton warhead for a total nuclear
firepower of 213.75 Megatons

So lets re-iterate the USA's current Nuclear Firepower
in just it's 3 major arms NOT INCLUDING the Hypersonic
Spaceplane bombs and tactical or theater nuclear missiles:

Sub Missiles : 1369.20 Megatons
Land Missiles : 213.75 Megatons
Planes : 2284.80 Megatons
-----------------------------------------
Total Nuclear Firepower = 3867.75 Megatons

or enough nuclear firepower to pretty much destroy
millions of square kilometers with blast effects and
multi-thousand year radiation/fallout effects.

So no I'm not too worried about the 25 to 100 or so 15 Kiloton Nukes
that North Korea might have....I am pretty sure we could OBLITERATE
the ENTIRE COUNTRY from the Earth if necessary!!!!!!

I should also add the RESERVE NUCLEAR FORCE
that is currently in storage under the SORT and START-2
missile treaties but can still be re-activated in times
of emergency as being a total of over 12,000 MEGATONS
for a Grand Total of almost 16,000 Megatons (16 Gigatons)

To put it into historical perspective that is about
1/6250th of the total Firepower of the Asteroid Impact
that wiped out the dinosaurs which was about
100,000,000 Megatons (100,000 Gigatons)

So the USA has one hell of a lot of Nuclear Firepower
that North Korea would be WELL ADVISED to be aware of
when confronted with such a MILITARY SUPERPOWER that
last year spent 607 Billion Dollars with 42 BILLION DOLLARS
of that on the "Black Budget" (Google that term!)
which is Research & Development on things such as
Large but non-radioactive Hafnium Isomer Explosives,
Hypersonic (20,000 KMH) Space Bombers,
Super-Cavitating Submarines & Torpedos,
Proton/Anti-Proton Explosives (which would
make plain old Fission/Fusion bombs look like
pea shooters - think Trillions of Teratons
in the range of the Supernova of an Entire Sun!),
Metamorphic Smart Meta-Materials
(aka Liquid Smart Metal - aka something similar to the
fictional T-1000 Terminator character)
and other such R&D that would just absolutely STUN
any of you who don't know about such stuff!

Cue small but powerful tactical and theatre nukes plus submarine-fired cruise missiles
and B2 Stealth Bomber bunker busters and thousands of non-radioactive
kinetic energy weapons fired from orbiting spaceplanes such as Aurora
or Hypersoar-based tactical Spaceplane bombers.

I should also mention that ground penetrating radar from satellites
can go as deep at 1000 meters (Or more!) depending upon the wavelength
and total power, so NK's tunnels wouldn't be so hard to find and map
for targetting and destruction using...lets say... a 1 ton Tungsten Rod
fired at 17,000 KMH from space hitting the ground at the same force
as a 10 kiloton Nuclear weapon -- 10 to 20 of them should do the trick
in BUSTING a 1000 metre deep tunnel complex. A single Minuteman-type
rocket can carry 10 of them each and we have HUNDREDS of
spare Minuteman rockets left over from the 1960's!

I say to Kim Jong Il and that ignomious turd of a megamaniacal son
aka Kim Jong Un (newly appointed leader of North Korea) as they
think about trying a stunt against a Country (The U.S.A) that could
TRULY WIPE YOU OFF THE FACE OF THIS EARTH !!!!!!!!!

...and to paramaphrase a saying by Dirty Harry (aka Clint Eastwood):

Go Ahead Punks! Make My Day!

As for their army size, it isn't so big: If the US counted "army men" as NK, it would be tree or four times as big: all contractors, support civilians, weapon designers, maintenance centers (civilians), military factories, publicists, etc, are counted in north korea.
And remember: a big number may be impressive, but 4 million zulus armed with lances are not so effective..

Also, when their weapons are totally outdated, they still "retain" them: but they may perfectly be totally unusable, specially the most complex ones: that is planes, tanks, ships, missiles..

Their planes are obsolete, and no match for us or even SK planes.. and so are their AA missiles: no major problem in the air.

Their navy is also obsolete: no match for modern missile guided US ships, but some of their missiles will force US forces to be far from land to prevent surprise attacks that might sink them: bad for US Carriers and the payload of F-18s, but again, no major problem if carefull enough.

Now the land forces.

Their tanks are really no match for US or SK tanks, specially the sensors, armor and guns: they are in the no so nice position of detecting the enemy later, having les than half the protection and having to approach US tanks to close range.. while us and sk forces can get them before they even detect them.. not very nice indeed.

As for their soldiers, I really don't doubt their "mind training/deforming", but an AK-47 is no match for a (modern) m-16 if properly used: it is more powerfull, but as it has less accuracy and they don't have the body armor the US forces have, not to talk about the night vision, etc, they again have to close down more.

As for support weapons, again the same..

That would be all if not for the Command & Control: here we have a 50 year gap, and this really is a force multiplier, so the only chance for NK would be to launch a massive attack to use their superior numbers.. massive attack that would have its supplies bombed..

Missiles: this is the best part of the NK army, and they need them badly.

Ok, so we have now concluded that they have a very nice army capable of

I’ve just read through all the replies to this post and I see that some people don’t see North Korea as a threat and that we have no reason to do anything about them. Let me give you just one reason.

In 2007 Israel Bombed a “Nuclear” plant under construction in Syria. Satellite Photo’s showed Korean workers working at the Plant. Now we know they not South Korean as they don’t have Nuclear Knowledge and Capabilities. So what’s the big deal?

Mmmm Let me think, Syria are big Buggies with Iran and Hezbollah and quietly have the same Agenda to wipe Israel off the map. But that’s not a U.S Problem. No, not directly but because of U.S politics you might have noticed that in the Middle East language the worlds …”Death to Israel are closely followed by Death to America…”

The more we let these guys develop this type of technology and share it with their Friends, the more we run a risk of being hit with a “big Dirty” Bomb somewhere here at home.

The current and former Administrations think that sending money and food to North Korea and Promising them to be included in all kinds of Global economic deals and being recognized will keep the Wolves at bay. I personally don’t think that North Korea are a threat in the greater scheme of things, except when you try dictate to them or try push them around or tell them what to do or what not to do. North Korea are not Hell bent on wanting Israel or the U.S wiped off the face of the earth, but they have no gripes dealing with other countries that have another agenda and this is where the Treat is.

So as it stands the U.S have no reason to attack N.K. and what’s been going on for years will continue in its cycle. The Chinese are no different to N.K, In fact they are much alike. We manage to deal with China on a day to day basis with no problems.

So what are we to do! If we don’t try stop them from selling the nuclear technology to other countries we will run into problems down the road.

So Problems down the road it is ! Because we not going to go to War because N.K are still tinkering with their war heads or willing to sell nuclear technology to other countries. To us we need an actual event to do something. So we’ll have to just wait until someone they sell their technology to, uses the weapons against us, Europe or Israel. And then there will still be no repercussions to N.K.











[edit on 27-6-2009 by SharkBait]

"Satellite Photo’s showed Korean workers working at the Plant."

Get serious. You think you can tell someone's nationality from a satellite picture?

Various intelligence feeds have claimed that the North Koreans were involved...but then look at what the same intelligence feeds thought about the Iraqi nuclear program which has been shut down for years before 2003. Don't believe the hype.

I was a soldier in the 2nd D. Spent time in the HQ crypto and comm centers. Walked the fields policing up the propaganda leaflets that fluttered down from the sky overnight. Hitched rides on OH58s flying NOE to service equipment at the DMZ (Taesong-dong). Drank the local soju, silvac, and ligmils in the ville (Tongduchon), and spent some time in the local hooches.

There are defenses all across the Korean countryside between Seoul and the DMZ. What looks like a raised freeway is a barrier. What look like overpasses are barriers that are designed to be blown up and collapse on the road. What looks like a railroad cut through a raised freeway is another concrete barrier designed to be blown up and collapse on the tracks. What looks like five story tall walls with decorative holes are defensive walls with gun holes. You can see fences facing each other that look like Olympic symbols across the countryside that are constantine wire ready to be stretched and connected together. The bridges up north are already wired up with explosives and the button is manned 24x7. The Imjin river is full of mines, as is some of the DMZ. The country is at war, only a truce in in effect. No peace treaty has been signed between the north and south.

There were 100,000 North Korean special forces who specialize in wiping out U.S. bases, who train to parachut into mock up copies of our bases, to kill as many soldiers as quickly as possiblee. The MPs and QRF (Quick Reaction Force) soldiers would get a few shots in, but the rest of us would not know an invasion had started. From the time the NK Army got the order to go, they'd be done wiping out the bases in 15 minutes. At least if they're planes got through. If we got wind of a fleet of planes headed south, we'd be standing in line at the armory signing out our weapons and counting rounds of ammo while ADA and armor guys (the guys we'd fight on the midnight animal bus) would be opening up at the sky. There's only one U.S. Army division in the main approach to the south, and as a deterrent, not a defense against the 30 North Korean Army divisions that need to approach by land and air. Seoul is 30 miles from the DMZ. Once NK owns Seoul, the game is over. They don't need to go to the end of the peninsula.

War is bad, but sometimes have to be fought. Good people die badly, dreams are cut short. The best defense is the one you know how to use well, but will never use.


[edit on 1-7-2009 by Dbriefed]

Originally posted by Dbriefed
I was a soldier in the 2nd D. Spent time in the HQ crypto and comm centers. Walked the fields policing up the propaganda leaflets that fluttered down from the sky overnight. Hitched rides on OH58s flying NOE to service equipment at the DMZ (Taesong-dong). Drank the local soju, silvac, and ligmils in the ville (Tongduchon), and spent some time in the local hooches.

There are defenses all across the Korean countryside between Seoul and the DMZ. What looks like a raised freeway is a barrier. What look like overpasses are barriers that are designed to be blown up and collapse on the road. What looks like a railroad cut through a raised freeway is another concrete barrier designed to be blown up and collapse on the tracks. What looks like five story tall walls with decorative holes are defensive walls with gun holes. You can see fences facing each other that look like Olympic symbols across the countryside that are constantine wire ready to be stretched and connected together. The bridges up north are already wired up with explosives and the button is manned 24x7. The Imjin river is full of mines, as is some of the DMZ. The country is at war, only a truce in in effect. No peace treaty has been signed between the north and south.

There were 100,000 North Korean special forces who specialize in wiping out U.S. bases, who train to parachut into mock up copies of our bases, to kill as many soldiers as quickly as possiblee. The MPs and QRF (Quick Reaction Force) soldiers would get a few shots in, but the rest of us would not know an invasion had started. From the time the NK Army got the order to go, they'd be done wiping out the bases in 15 minutes. At least if they're planes got through. If we got wind of a fleet of planes headed south, we'd be standing in line at the armory signing out our weapons and counting rounds of ammo while ADA and armor guys (the guys we'd fight on the midnight animal bus) would be opening up at the sky. There's only one U.S. Army division in the main approach to the south, and as a deterrent, not a defense against the 30 North Korean Army divisions that need to approach by land and air. Seoul is 30 miles from the DMZ. Once NK owns Seoul, the game is over. They don't need to go to the end of the peninsula.

War is bad, but sometimes have to be fought. Good people die badly, dreams are cut short. The best defense is the one you know how to use well, but will never use.


[edit on 1-7-2009 by Dbriefed]

very nice post...

and its also true i always forget they they are still at war.

so what do you think it will happen?..and roughly when?

It's pretty clear that America could 'cakewalk' NK ..... right?

I mean after 8 years fighting in Afgan they've totaly beaten the taliban... right?

.... ok jokes aside, after 8 years in Afghanistan not only has America NOT beaten them but they still have the resources to now attack Pakistan. NK has more people, more tanks, more bombs, more firepower and not to mention nukes.... do people realy think America can 'cakewalk' NK when they still cant win the war they started 8 years ago?..... LOLLLLLLLLLL

Americans are funny

I'm really tired of all of this nonsense about NK. One of our nuclear ballistic missle submarines has more fire power than all of NK combined. And that's exactly what we should tell "Lil Kim". If he so much as farts in the general direction of our allies or us he will be wiped off of the map in 30 minutes.

NK shot down an Army helicopter at the DMZ when I was at SK. We did nothing in response. Nothing is going to happen unless NK decides to attack. When they do, it should be the last day on earth for the country of NK.

Originally posted by Bachfin
It's pretty clear that America could 'cakewalk' NK ..... right?

I mean after 8 years fighting in Afgan they've totaly beaten the taliban... right?

.... ok jokes aside, after 8 years in Afghanistan not only has America NOT beaten them but they still have the resources to now attack Pakistan. NK has more people, more tanks, more bombs, more firepower and not to mention nukes.... do people realy think America can 'cakewalk' NK when they still cant win the war they started 8 years ago?..... LOLLLLLLLLLL

Americans are funny

And when was the last time NK actually engaged in a stand up fight?

NK hasn't engaged in any sort of land warfare since the end of the Korean War. When was the last time that US troops were in combat? This afternoon, maybe?

Afghanistan=insurgency warfare

Korea=conventional combat

Learn the difference between the two before you draw comparisons.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Bachfin
It's pretty clear that America could 'cakewalk' NK ..... right?

I mean after 8 years fighting in Afgan they've totaly beaten the taliban... right?

.... ok jokes aside, after 8 years in Afghanistan not only has America NOT beaten them but they still have the resources to now attack Pakistan. NK has more people, more tanks, more bombs, more firepower and not to mention nukes.... do people realy think America can 'cakewalk' NK when they still cant win the war they started 8 years ago?..... LOLLLLLLLLLL

Americans are funny

And when was the last time NK actually engaged in a stand up fight?

NK hasn't engaged in any sort of land warfare since the end of the Korean War. When was the last time that US troops were in combat? This afternoon, maybe?

Afghanistan=insurgency warfare

Korea=conventional combat

Learn the difference between the two before you draw comparisons.

Afghanistan and Irac started off as conventional combat then moved to insurgency warfare and Korea will be different how?

Originally posted by on_yur_6
I'm really tired of all of this nonsense about NK. One of our nuclear ballistic missle submarines has more fire power than all of NK combined. And that's exactly what we should tell "Lil Kim". If he so much as farts in the general direction of our allies or us he will be wiped off of the map in 30 minutes.

NK shot down an Army helicopter at the DMZ when I was at SK. We did nothing in response. Nothing is going to happen unless NK decides to attack. When they do, it should be the last day on earth for the country of NK.

Do you realy think China will let America use a nuke so close to China? no they wont and have already publicly stated so, if America uses a nuke in NK i bet China nukes America

Originally posted by Karlhungis
In the end, all the ferocity in the world isn't going to outmatch the money that the US invests in training and equipment.

We have money left?

Seriously...aren't we a bit tapped out at the moment in the middle east?

[edit on 1-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by Bachfin
Do you realy think China will let America use a nuke so close to China? no they wont and have already publicly stated so, if America uses a nuke in NK i bet China nukes America

China already let N. Korea use a nuke so close to China. The text in May. Remember? Must not have bothered them too much.

But I also will add that I don't comprehend why nuking anyone ever would even be an option. Why do people always leap to that? Oh oh they nuke us or might...gotta nuke em back. Yeah that's brilliant.



[edit on 1-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by Bachfin
Afghanistan and Irac started off as conventional combat then moved to insurgency warfare and Korea will be different how?

Afghanistan started conventional? Really? I wonder how you'd classify all the SOF troops that where there, taking over? That wasn't conventional.

And you have some sort of crystal ball that tells you the future about a war in Korea?

Originally posted by jerico65

Afghanistan=insurgency warfare

Korea=conventional combat

Learn the difference between the two before you draw comparisons.

oh reallly? conventional combat? Remember Kim Il-sung in a little war we like to call the Korean war?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
oh reallly? conventional combat? Remember Kim Il-sung in a little war we like to call the Korean war?

The Korean War is classified as pretty much a conventional war.