Mark and Debbie Kuhn describe home break in by cop's for flying American Flag Up Side Down

reply to post by badmedia


I really hate to burst your bubble, you like to insert your own meaning into others words, then use that as your means to debate. I said what I meant to say, take it at face value. I have answered all your questions an yet you still wish to BAIT me not debate and tell me what I am saying; completely against what I have already said. So have a nice life with your closed mind and edealistic fantasies. I am done with your trolling and baiting.

Flying the flag upside is not an act of desecration. Flying the flag upside down is a distress signal.

Desecrating the flag would be along the lines of throwing bodily fluids, excrement, food, mud, or other things on it, burning it, or tearing it up and stomping on it.

Regardless, both forms of expression are protected under the constitution. They have every right to do it, just as some people have the right to disagree and express their anger.

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear
reply to post by badmedia

 

I really hate to burst your bubble, you like to insert your own meaning into others words, then use that as your means to debate. I said what I meant to say, take it at face value. I have answered all your questions an yet you still wish to BAIT me not debate and tell me what I am saying; completely against what I have already said. So have a nice life with your closed mind and edealistic fantasies. I am done with your trolling and baiting.

Actually, I guess you do not realize what you imply when you say certain things. For example, if someone says "I am right", it is also implying that others are wrong. Sure, they didn't say others are wrong directly, but they certainly implied it. And your comments were along those lines, and I merely pointed out why.

You say things like "they are lucky they are not my neighbor". But then you say things like you would just ask them to quit. That's not them being lucky in anyway, because if you looked at the story, that is exactly what happened.

All I did is call you out on what you said. You got caught with your pants down and now you are backpedaling. If you think I am baiting or trolling feel free to report me.

Iranian cleric: Some in unrest should be executed

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear
but you would be the moroon had you shot a police officer, as the rest of the force would shoot first and ask questions later.

Some people are willing to die for their freedoms. I being one of them.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


You are correct, I stand corrected on that issue.
But would it be correct then to say it is dishonoring the flag to fly it in that manner when there is no immediate distress in which you need assistance?

reply to post by badmedia


i can agree my wording left something to be desired and could be taken that way, I appologize for that.
I am someone who says exactly what I mean and do not attempt to imply something else, but I am not always correct in getting my meaning across, you did call me on that, now that you have explained it, I can and will agree on that issue.

I do however still retain my opinion that their conduct was rude and inappropriate to others that did ask them to stop. And also feel that they should have tried to work with those people too find a better way as they may have found supporters by doing so. Now if they had tried that, and noone was willing to offer alternate ideas, that would have been a different matter.

In the event of someone flying the flag in that manner, I would still ask them why, and if no immediate assistance was needed, i would ask them to stop and attempt to offer alternate means of getting the message across.

So do we agree to disagree on some matters, and possibly agree on others, as far as this issue is concerned.

also thanks for stopping the personal attacks and starting a real debate.

reply to post by Nutter


Nutter, honestly do you think that if you had gone the route you speak of, that your message would have gotten out at all?

I would think that the police would have just branded you as being an extremist and possible terrorist and covered your message up. At that point you may have just sacrificed yourself in vain if noone hears your message, just that of the cover story.

Do you think it may have been better in that situation to have complied with the arrest in the beginning, avoiding the B&E, and get your story out, as well as grow a supporter base?

These are reasoable questions, and are not about what the people did in the vid.

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


When trampling on the flag and spitting on the flag is protected by the courts. I just don't believe that flying your flag in a sign of distress is disrespectful to anyone who recognizes the right of free speech and expression.

Oh I just know my avatar pisses you off. Sorry!

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear
reply to post by Nutter

 

Nutter, honestly do you think that if you had gone the route you speak of, that your message would have gotten out at all?

No, but that is the price to pay for freedom. Eh?

I would think that the police would have just branded you as being an extremist and possible terrorist and covered your message up. At that point you may have just sacrificed yourself in vain if noone hears your message, just that of the cover story.

So what? At least I would know that I died protecting my freedom from a ruthless SOB.

Do you think it may have been better in that situation to have complied with the arrest in the beginning, avoiding the B&E, and get your story out, as well as grow a supporter base?

Do you really think these people would have a support base had they "complied"?

These are reasoable questions, and are not about what the people did in the vid.

Since the thread is about the vid. I will not commenbt off topic.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Nutter]

reply to post by Nutter


Yes I do believe these people would have still gotten a support base if they had complied, they can still show how they feel their Rights and Freedoms were violated, that point would not have changed.

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


So, we are to bend over and just take it because a man in a suit (uniform) says so? Not me brother.

As a current member of the Army and past member of the Air Force I don't have a problem with people burning flags or flying them upside down as these folks did...This is the reason We have a military...to protect our Freedoms. Soldiers die for these rights not the symbol...I hope they don't hate the military because of what happen...some are offended but most of us are of the same opinions on ATS...that things are out of control. The young guys in the military today don't always agree with our leaders ideas of where the real problems are at (Iraq) but still stand up for the rights of freedom everywhere. There will come a day when they are able to stand up or have to stand up for the rights of freedom right here at home and I think many will be surprised that they will do just that.

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


I am sick of a world/country that is worried about offending another person, and blame the person who offended rather than the person who was offended.

If you want to create a society where nobody is offended, then I want no part of it. And thats what the entire thing from start to end was about. People were "offended" and because of that thought it was their right to punish or make those who offended them remove it.

You have every right to be offended, but no right to do anything about it. If we start going around and ridding the world of things that offend us, then we will never have freedom. All someone has to do is say it offends them, and the freedom is gone. I do not know why you or anyone else would support such things.

Much easier is for people to learn how to not be offended by the actions of others, or how to deal with it and accept it. Then people can have freedom.

So take your pick, do you want a world that doesn't allow for people to be offended, or do you want a world that is based on freedom?