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Mark and Debbie Kuhn describe home break in by cop's for flying American Flag Up Side Down

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posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:13 AM
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He is correct..It can be raise upside down...But if upside down and then backwards,it would be right side up....




posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by Pappa_Bear
 


Yes you earned your right to speak it (and you have to check on the boards sometimes, people throw around "patriotism alot).... but they earned their right to fly it however they want per the Supreme Court ruling.

Try reading the Spence v. washington 1974 Supreme Court case and ruling. Just because it upsets you.. does not make it illegal or a convictable offense.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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A FLAG FLOWN UPSIDE DOWN MEANS...
IS A EXPRESSION THAT THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!
Which it is!!

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Wideawake08]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:27 AM
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www.freedomforum.org...
There a 3 states that have desecration laws on the books, As the Supreme courts did overturn desecration laws, some states kept desecration laws on books and enforce them.

As there are no penalties for desecrating the flag, there is a house resolution to correct that.

Source: H.J.Res 8

H. J. Res. 8:



Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress and the States to prohibit the act of desecration of the flag of the United States and to set criminal penalties for that act



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by Pappa_Bear
 


You are correct, and it is not the first. It will not be the last either since they all get shot down because of the constitutional right argument.

-edit- I just went outside and turned mine upside down, because all this talk of free speech made me feel like practicing some.






[edit on 24-6-2009 by TwiTcHomatic]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by TwiTcHomatic
 


I'm sure you noticed that earlier I was not talking about patriotism though even though some others failed to comprehend that at first, but about the complete disrespect not so much to the flag but to service members. WhichI'm sure now you can understand why>



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by Pappa_Bear
 


See, that is the argument I never understood. I could care less what people care, let alone if they disrespect me for my beliefs and choices. They are my choices for me.. just like serving in the military was.

The argument of disrespecting military is redundant.. If you joined so others would respect you, you joined for the wrong reasons. So to say something is wrong because it "hurts" a veteran is crap.

I joined because I love the freedom we have because of our constitution, and I wanted to protect those beliefs... even if I did not agree with ALL of them.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by TwiTcHomatic
 


How do you git I may have joined for respect, I joined for the same reason you did.

My whole perspective on the flag; It is a symbol of what this country was founded on -Freedom-, I believe the constitution and Bill of rights were our guidestones, and this is the freedom that the Flag represents, there fore I feel the flag deserves the upmost respect. Anyone trying to say I'm patriotic only need to read my first post in it's entirety and you will see I'm not patriotic to the form of government we are quickly going to, but I'm going to hold my flag with deep reverance as a symbol of what I and countless others have fought for.

My personal opinion on those that desecrate the flag do not either understand the symbology of the flag or respect the symbology it reflects. I have found most that serve in the military serve for the purpose of retaining our Freedom and have learned the Symboloy that our flag represents.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by Pappa_Bear
 


Exactly... the country is founded upon FREEDOM. The freedom to pursue ones ideals freely (as long as not breaking any law).

All I am saying is you can't preach freedom, then want to give stipulations with it's use because you do not agree with the particular act.

It boils down to this.. It does not hurt you, unless you perceive it in a way that is mentally disparaging to your own beliefs. Luckily, you have the freedom to have those beliefs just as these two people did.

Your going to have your opinion, just as I am going to have mine.. and that is OK, it's what makes America great.

Personally I am looking forward to other's perspectives.. not that I have not enjoyed discussing this with you.

-edit- Just because I reply to your post does not mean I am branding you a certain way.. it means I am responding to the idea or statement you wrote. You do not always have to go on the defensive so quickly.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by TwiTcHomatic]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:05 AM
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that what good debates as this one is all about, to learn others opinions and perspectives, everyone that particiapates usually walks away with something.

Great talking to ya, I gotta get to bed sun will be up in a few minutes.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 05:22 AM
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Ha ha! The British got clever with their flag design so you can't upset them.

And that is where I've got you. Because Bacon Sandwich isn't a ferret. He's a pig.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by Pappa_Bear
 


You sir, are NOT a patriot. You may like to claim you are, you may like to appear that you are. But you are NOT.

Have you ever served in those troops you say you support? Well let me inform you on something, the oath that is taken is towards the constitution itself. I remember it, as I took it myself.

If you were actually a patriot, then you would be defending that. But you don't. In fact, you actually support things opposite of that. As such, you are not a patriot.

You think waving a flag and getting upset because people don't treat it like you want makes you a patriot? You think doing something on memorial day is patriotic? No. You basically spit on every person who has died for those freedoms because you actively give away and try to take away the very things they died for.

You think they died for a flag, for a president or for a name? If you want to do something for their memorial, then how about actually sticking up for the things they died for.

Do you really think those people are going to care that you praise them if you give up the very things they died for? By being the very kind of thing they fought against?

People such as yourself are the reason freedoms are being lost. You know what the true price of freedom is? Giving it to others, especially when you disagree with them. If you can't give it to others, then you will not have it yourself. Which you will quickly come to realize the moment you change your mind about something.

If you were a patriot, then you would be sticking up for basic human rights. But you do not, so you are not. All I can say is that your opinion is pathetic.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by Pappa_Bear
reply to post by TwiTcHomatic
 


I'm sure you noticed that earlier I was not talking about patriotism though even though some others failed to comprehend that at first, but about the complete disrespect not so much to the flag but to service members. WhichI'm sure now you can understand why>


I doesn't matter. I served, and the only person I found disrespectful to that is you. I find the people who are flying the flag upside down and using their rights to be about the most respectful thing someone can do. I don't have to agree with them, but I will stick up for those I disagree with more than those I disagree with when someone such as yourself comes along saying you want to punish them for exercising their rights.

If you can not give freedoms to others, then you yourself no longer deserve them, and you will also not be allowed them. Even if you get what you want, you still lost your personal choice and freedom. You were just too much of a fool to realize it.

You want to support the troops? Bring them home and quit putting them in harms way for the profits of corporations. Supporting that is not supporting the troops, and that is exactly what people mean by support the troops. When they say support the troops, it's really just about supporting the war.

If it's about supporting the troops, then why are they treated like crap?

About the worse thing someone could do in support of someone who signs up to defend the country is to put their life on the line for things opposite of that. And ignoring that and pretending it's not there does not change that fact. It's just making it worse.

I'm about sick and tired of things being based on what people call something, or what symbols they hold up rather than the actions and things they are actually doing. It's about time people get a freaking clue already. Jesus 2000 years ago was telling people this, and 2000 years later people still can't get it? And they think they are more advanced than people 2000 years ago?

Please, do the world a favor and get a clue. It's way past due.


[edit on 25-6-2009 by badmedia]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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Flying the flag upside down is not desicration of the flag.

It is a distress signal.

I think it more than reasonable for a rescue operation to soon follow the hanging of the flag upsidedown.

People should be more careful about sending distress signals.

I would send them the bill for the rescue mission, if I were the local authorities.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 04:25 AM
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Actually the Flag of Great Britain is called the Union Flag, or Flag of the Union. The only time you add Jack to it, is when it is being flown on a ship!

Plus it isn't symetrical, really annoys me when it flys upside down, just shows me that people these days have no respect for the flag or my country!



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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It is just a flag! Get over yourselves, really. People, not things, mean more than a flag. How is a flag (created from the ideal of freedoms and pursuit of happiness) more important that someone's right to liberty and safety within their own home and property? Think of the irony of that.

It was tried and tested in the 60's when flag burning examples were put to the test in courts of law...it is LEGAL. see: "The flag of the United States is sometimes symbolically burnt, often in protest of the policies of the American government, both within the country and abroad. The United States Supreme Court has ruled that, due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, due to its status as "symbolic speech." Also in Canadian courts: "Flag desecration is not forbidden by Canadian law." en.wikipedia.org...

BUT, but, it is only 'just a flag' when it is not your own? right????

Marine Color Guard displays Canadian flag upside-down
www.nytimes.com...

Marine Color Guard displays Canadian flag upside-down -

Strange World Series Incidents:

"8. The one with the upside-down flag (1992, Braves vs. Blue Jays)
Well, Georgia wouldn't be Georgia if there wasn't a flag dispute, would it? This one began before Game 2 at Fulton County Stadium, a matchup against Toronto during the first international World Series.


The Marine Corps color guard made a small error: It carried the Canadian flag upside down. When the series shifted north of the border, Toronto vendors did a brisk business selling upside-down U.S. flags in the Skydome." sports.espn.go.com.../strangeWSmoments

We got over it. It was rude but we got over it. It wasn't like it was an average citizen doing it and 40 odd people on the same block see it. Millions watched this live on television. It isn't like flags are the color guard's job or anything LOL. A mistake, my a$$.

These people have just as much right to hang the US Flag upside down as they do to breathe and have door locks.



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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What a massive waste of time and money.
I wonder how many real crimes were commited during that time?



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 06:05 AM
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It was considered to be an 'unwritten' desecration crime (by authorities) until officially it was proven not to be:

"Flying an American flag upside down is not necessarily meant as political protest. The practice has its origin in a military distress signal; displaying a flag in this manner is "a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property";[30] it has been used by extension to make a statement about distress in civic, political, or other areas. Upside-down flying of the flag was ruled constitutional in Spence v. Washington, a 1974 Supreme Court ruling."

see interesting details of Spense v. Washington: atheism.about.com...

"Given the protected character of his expression and in light of the fact that no interest the State may have in preserving the physical integrity of a privately owned flag was significantly impaired on these facts, the conviction must be invalidated.
There was no risk that people would think the government was endorsing Spence’s message and the flag carries so many different meanings to people that the state cannot proscribe use of the flag to express certain political views."



[edit on 25-6-2009 by suzque66]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Pappa_Bear
They're lucky I wasn't their neighbor. I have 0 respect for these nuckleheads. Law or no law, that was desecration of the flag, disrespect to our soldiers, especialy after one of them tries to get them to take it down as it deeply disturbed him. I think they got off to easy and deserve to be on a real terrorist list.

Granted our government is totaly screwed up, the goons running things are greedy, egotistical, and unabashedly selfish; but if they think that desecrating our flag and disrespecting our soldiers who have faught and shed blood so they could enjoy the rights and priveledges, as few as we have left; is ok and will get them attention; I think they found out that it's not the attention they wanted and is not ok.

There are much better ways to get the message across that our nation is in trouble than to blatantly show disrespect to our soldiers as they did. I would dare say that the sherriff officer was a veteran as well to pursue the matter in the way he did, and most likely felt it better to not say anything until he had them arrested to maintain a more professional attitude as I'm willing to bet he would much preferred to have done more to them.

I can guarentee you won't see these knuckleheads doing anything to protest unless they can get all the attention. Selfish, egotistical disrespectful, and most of all arrogant. I can't say it enough 0 respect for these knuckleheads


One of the rare moments I say Kudo's to the police for temperance, patience and civility in the face of such self serving idiocy.


They weren't disrespecting the flag. Were you even listening when they stated at the beginning of their video why they had flown it upside down. It was to symbolize that our nation is under distress. Which it is. The only terrorist in this story was the officer who infringed on their Constitutional Rights.

You should probably educate yourself a bit more about what Desecration of the Flag is. It's a destroying of the Flag. Hanging it upside down to symbolize that our nation and Constitution are in trouble, is not destruction of the flag. It's quite the opposite, it's a beacon asking for help to heal our nation and our Flag.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Oreyeon]



posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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Sorry, but I fail to see the point of this. Not the thread, but the reaction of some people.

How boring must their day be to be jumping up and down at this?
So a couple of people hang the flag upside down?
There was an episode of the Simpsons where homer set light to a British flag before throwing manure over it and stomping all over it. Did I scream for the children to get away from the TV set? Did I write a letter of protest to Sky1/Fox? Did I go and protest outside the American Embassy in London?
No. I understood the context of this scene's portrayal (in short, I was laughing)

If youre offended by such pettiness, try aiming at something more worthwhile.
How about all the murders both fictional or not on TV? Go complain about that.




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